Question Windows Version and Most Recent Intel Chipset

[BonzaiDuck]

I might post this or link to a thread on "Windows". It spans both forums.

I am beginning to plan a new system building project, belatedly -- even reluctantly, but I am determined. My Sky and Kaby Lake systems are too old for Windows 11, but they are fast. I built them that way, so I had less of an incentive to replace the computers. And I have a lot on my work-list these days, with eldercare responsibilities.

But now I have determined that I can still build a better machine than a $2,000 Dell XPS or Optiplex. If I might want SFF footprint, I still insist on having the mid-tower space for things I might do with such a system, if only things that I had done with previous systems. Even so, this new build may not have a dGPU graphics card in it, or it might come later as hand-me-down from a disassembled PC. Without getting a new high-end graphics card, the unlocked i7-13700K processor, the DDR5-5600+ RAM, an SK Hynix P41 1TB NVME drive with a high-end Z790 motherboard, I can build it for less than $1,300 initially. I need to take a few months to test it before it becomes my main system. And I have up to two years before there's any sense of urgency about it.

Someone might argue that a Z690 motherboard and even an Alder Lake K processor would be just as sensible, but I have yet to pull the check-out string. The Z790 boards all use DDR5 RAM.

Windows 11 was released in the latter half of 2021, and the Z790 chipset and motherboards appeared later in 2022. Is there any reason why running Windows 10 on the latest chipset would be in any way a problem? As I see Windows 11 on my laptop, it has a learning curve, and I have yet to embrace it. I have a retail-box Win 10 Pro that I can use as long as it is feasible.

 

[Tech Junky]

Why not just continue the other thread?

The only loss of w10 would be the CPU performance not running more efficiently. The only real requirements are 9th gen or newer and tpm. There's a way with Rufus to bypass the requirements though and use your existing setup.

Once again if you insist on upgrading just to do it then it's a waste of money. An uplift is cheaper than a complete build if you insist on doing so. DDR 5 won't do anything other than cost more to build for what you're using the system for.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Sure. I wish that I had reviewed more thoroughly what I'd already posted. Whether I build it with Alder Lake or Raptor Lake, the point about the RAM might make the Z690 boards just as attractive. And the truth is, I have three "front-end" systems, so that one of them could be the guinea-pig for the Rufus Win 11 hack, and the laptop just begs for an experiment with the alternative to Classic Shell, now that it's had a Win11 upgrade..

 

[Tech Junky]

For W11 I use a combo of reg hacks and https://github.com/valinet/ExplorerPatcher

There's definitely some tweaking to make W11 bend to your will though if you're a power user as they gimped some options to keep idiots safe from themselves.

ADL / RPL difference is mostly extra E cores and DDR5 being "forced"
https://pcpartpicker.com/list/GgpZ4s - $858 RPL
https://pcpartpicker.com/list/PLqKPX - $515 ADL

I'm using the ADL setup but w/ 16GB / Linux which is overkill since it doesn't use that much RAM it was just a better idea for redundancy w/ 2 sticks and not much more than 8GB.

There are some perks on ADL though for transcoding and parsing video w/ the CPU vs GPU. Going from an 8700K to 12700K sped things up considerably for post processing Plex OTA comskip processing. Considering I'm using it as a true server that's headless w/ Linux it's more stable and less fuss for maintenance. It's also the router for the whole network which enables securing the whole LAN w/ wire guard for VPN. Windows can't be a router though or do it very well if you get it setup.

 

[tcsenter]

The only loss of w10 would be the CPU performance not running more efficiently. The only real requirements are 9th gen or newer and tpm. There's a way with Rufus to bypass the requirements though and use your existing setup.

8th Gen and newer. A few "7th" gen models are officially support in Windows 11, e.g. the Extreme Edition models. And to the question, not missing out on anything except Windows 10 does not support a few relatively minor security improvements in Windows 11. The major ones, virtual based security, core isolation and memory protection are supported by Windows 10 if hardware supports it.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

There's a point, given my age and other activities, where I have to rein in some old habits. On the other hand, with what I'd built with 7-year-old technology for performance that I can use or manage, one can have this inordinate curiosity about what you can do with the current technology. There's the nagging question also: "Am I keeping up?"

The other day I got a letter from Veterans Administration, requesting bank statements for the last three months as part of their oversight for appointed fiduciaries, as I currently perform for my bed-bound mother. This was it: they only wanted the bank statements, from the precise wording of their letter. There is another level of reporting and "accounting" for more extensive VA benefits which reoccurs on an annual basis. For a short time, I was confused as to which way to approach it.

But either way, I rely on my performance desktop workstation, working with the DMS (document management system), my sheet-feed scanner and PDF editors to handle what is essentially office work. VA seemed to have been consistently impressed with my submissions throughout our year-long experience with them. And that's more important than building a supercharged gaming rig.

Most of my friends in their mid-70s are mainstreamers, and I wouldn't know exactly to what extent their lives depend on their computers. But they are definitely the backbone of my "office" here. I suppose I've just awakened to the relative importance I should give to it in my life now, as opposed to ten years ago or twenty years ago.

"Letting go" inspires in me a shaky, uncertain feeling. But I am definitely making progress. For the first time in decades, I only have a single monitor on my desk. I don't think I would've been happier in life for being less of a hardware and software glutton. I definitely have no problem with the possible outlays of money to pay for a new, top-end system.

But I am definitely at a crossroads over all of it. In an immediate effort, I want to get the kruft, dust-bunnies and rat's nest in my room tidied up, and simplify my daily life a bit more.

My bookshelves are filled with obsolete computer and info-systems texts more than two decades old.

 

[Tech Junky]

"Am I keeping up?"

Do you need to? Do you have an actual use for the improvements? Do you want to spend more money to upgrade everything else to actually activate those HW improvements?

It's all a bit of a chain reaction to upgrade and make use of this stuff.

First you want a 13xxx CPU, then you need a MOBO. oh then you need DDR5. then you need Gen5 NVME drives, then you need 40gbps ethernet, then you need new xxx.

It all adds up quickly.

I would be paring down rather than building up. Once the hoarding is under control then think about adding a final system as a repo for your docs and data. KISS works wonders and frees up time to do other things. Always move forward and don't look back.

I'm on the edge of tech and still have issues with getting rid of things in a timely manner because of how fast things are changing these days. This "hobby" is like buying new cars every couple of years and trying to get out of the old ones before they depreciate too much,

 

[BonzaiDuck]

For W11 I use a combo of reg hacks and https://github.com/valinet/ExplorerPatcher

There's definitely some tweaking to make W11 bend to your will though if you're a power user as they gimped some options to keep idiots safe from themselves.

ADL / RPL difference is mostly extra E cores and DDR5 being "forced"
https://pcpartpicker.com/list/GgpZ4s - $858 RPL
https://pcpartpicker.com/list/PLqKPX - $515 ADL

I'm using the ADL setup but w/ 16GB / Linux which is overkill since it doesn't use that much RAM it was just a better idea for redundancy w/ 2 sticks and not much more than 8GB.

There are some perks on ADL though for transcoding and parsing video w/ the CPU vs GPU. Going from an 8700K to 12700K sped things up considerably for post processing Plex OTA comskip processing. Considering I'm using it as a true server that's headless w/ Linux it's more stable and less fuss for maintenance. It's also the router for the whole network which enables securing the whole LAN w/ wire guard for VPN. Windows can't be a router though or do it very well if you get it setup.

You know . . . I had only recently had my attention directed at Team Group. They're a Chinese outfit, who are producing a Gen-3 4TB NVME drive -- here or there recently available for as little as $160 each. The NVME's are warrantied for 5 years, spec'd to have an expected use-life of 2,400 TBW. I would never have entertained buying their RAM. I have been a loyal G.SKILL customer for so long, I don't even comparison-shop for RAM anymore. My motherboard choice is also about $150 more expensive than the AsRock.

I suspect you chose your Anandtech handle because of an inordinate weakness. You know what you're doing. Most mainstreamers would never consider doing what I do or what you likely do. But I seriously wonder what a meeting would be like for a 12-Step Hardware and Software Addiction group.

This time around, possibly my last, I'm willing to drop more than the most efficient or frugal ducats into a newer desktop. But the prospects about the operating system make it less of a pressing need or temptation.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Do you need to? Do you have an actual use for the improvements? Do you want to spend more money to upgrade everything else to actually activate those HW improvements?

It's all a bit of a chain reaction to upgrade and make use of this stuff.

First you want a 13xxx CPU, then you need a MOBO. oh then you need DDR5. then you need Gen5 NVME drives, then you need 40gbps ethernet, then you need new xxx.

It all adds up quickly.

I would be paring down rather than building up. Once the hoarding is under control then think about adding a final system as a repo for your docs and data. KISS works wonders and frees up time to do other things. Always move forward and don't look back.

I'm on the edge of tech and still have issues with getting rid of things in a timely manner because of how fast things are changing these days. This "hobby" is like buying new cars every couple of years and trying to get out of the old ones before they depreciate too much,

Ha! Ya see? We both understand each other. I've had a new computer no less frequently than every four years. Sometimes with shorter turnover. And even when I had OEMs (last purchased 1994 and held until 2000), I harvested all the parts to hoard in hopes of using them further. The cyber-junk and detritus builds up. I've noticed, for instance, that I have several DVI-to-HDMI cables, with no further way to use them. Instead of hiding my hoarding from myself, I need to get into those parts lockers and fill my brother's truck for a trip to the county e-waste recycle next week . . .

It is possible the taking action on that thought could have an effect that is almost cathartic. But I need to do it.

 

[Tech Junky]

cathartic

Purging feels good. It just takes a bit of motivation to take the first step. Makes life simpler with less clutter.

Kind of like going with a minimalist wallet that only holds 5 cards vs an old wallet that's stuffed like a ream of paper in your back pocket. Switching from a checkbook to web bill pay. Turning off paper statements and just getting the PDF instead. In my case combining several devices into a single PC and selling off the parts.

Consumer gear = clutter.

 

[Shmee]

If you go with a new build, Windows 11 would probably be preferable so long as your CPU has a hybrid core design, such as the 13700k you mentioned, or say a 7950X3D, where the two CCDs are different. Otherwise, I personally wouldn't see the need to go to Windows 11 for the time being.

That said, if you do decide to use Windows 11, you will want to look into configuring it to your liking, turning off the bloat/ads/telemetry stuff, and figuring out how to use a local account only (assuming you don't want a Microsoft account).

As for older hardware, or even new hardware without hybrid core designs, probably no point in going to Windows 11 for the time being. Once Windows 10 support is discontinued, I could see upgrading older computers to Windows 11. There are ways to do so still, to my understanding. No need to worry about secure boot, or TPM, or even UEFI vs. legacy (though I would recommend a UEFI install on a UEFI capable system). The "requirements" for Windows 11 are artificial, and it is easy enough around them.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Purging feels good. It just takes a bit of motivation to take the first step. Makes life simpler with less clutter.

Kind of like going with a minimalist wallet that only holds 5 cards vs an old wallet that's stuffed like a ream of paper in your back pocket. Switching from a checkbook to web bill pay. Turning off paper statements and just getting the PDF instead. In my case combining several devices into a single PC and selling off the parts.

Consumer gear = clutter.

Your remarks have caused me to reconsider my thoughts about this. Schmee also argues some parallel thinking about it.

In certain ways, I've made my life dependent on the technology to otherwise save time and trouble and improve precision. But what happens when your ability to use the technology declines? When I moved back here, I was taking care of Moms' and Bro's hardware maintenance and software installations. I was also building a means of managing our money and our household.

I may have some good years left, but I need to change my strategy and get rid of clutter. These Z170 systems are 7-year-old technology, but they are still rockin'. And yet, I have to say -- "Then what?"

Today, I loaded up my SUV with old VHS tapes and my 12-year-old Onkyo "smart" receiver for a trip to the Good Will. The Onkyo just doesn't play nice with my Sony TV, but it still works as intended when released 12 years ago.

Today seemed like "progress" because I got the replacement Sony AVR box up and running to do the "Auto Calibration" successfully. Certainly, a Sony will play well with a Sony! Nice, too!

I'm just getting started in purging this room. I need more energy! I suppose I'll just keep plugging along . . .

 

[Tech Junky]

plugging along

Starts with a goal.

Designate a day of the week and don't give yourself an excuse. Kind of like working out. If you keep doing it then it becomes a habit.

More energy means more protein in your diet and if you still need a bump then grab some vitamins w/ energy on the label.

An object at rest remains at rest, and an object in motion remains in motion at constant speed and in a straight line unless acted on by an unbalanced force. The acceleration of an object depends on the mass of the object and the amount of force applied.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Well . . . it's a side-bar of "life management". There will be accomplishments today. I dropped off some things for Good Will, so some garage floorspace is free of more clutter. The "room purge of cyber-junk" continues. My lungs feel clear today. I'm actually going to go out in the heat today and trim part of the hedges, saving the rest for the cool of tomorrow morning if I can manage it.

I got this remote for my "media-server" hooked up to the new Sony TV (it still feels "new"), and it was worth the $28. "Pepper-Jobs W10 Air/Gyro Remote". Flip it over, and it has a tiny keyboard. I was able to successfully log in to Windows after booting the system!

More "little chores" will lead to major progress. My spirits are higher today.