Windows updates...why so many?

[silicon]

did a fresh install of Windows 7 and it seems that hundreds of updates need to be installed...Why are there so many?

 

[mikeymikec]

Two threads about this recently.

Microsoft apparently isn't such a big fan of service packs these days, which would help roll up say a hundred updates into one package.

Aside from that, most of the updates you're receiving fix security vulnerabilities that have been found in the MS products you're using. Would you prefer to have the vulnerabilities or the updates?

 

[silicon]

Two threads about this recently.

Microsoft apparently isn't such a big fan of service packs these days, which would help roll up say a hundred updates into one package.

Aside from that, most of the updates you're receiving fix security vulnerabilities that have been found in the MS products you're using. Would you prefer to have the vulnerabilities or the updates?

Of course i am all for security and yes the updates are needed. Only wish they would see fit to throw a service pack out.

 

[corkyg]

MS updates not only include OS items, they also include all elements of Office, and sometimes those outnumber the OS updates. This week, all my 8.1 systems got 46 item updates. Win 7 got 26. Service packs would not help the diverse updates. Yes, it is a PITA if you do a fresh install and then have to deal with 100s. Update rollups would be nice.

 

[mikeymikec]

One could do a system image with minimal drivers and all the Windows updates, if this happens to be an annoying enough problem. The only time I do a clean install on my own PC is if I'm doing a major upgrade (boot device or platform upgrade). When I do clean installs on customers' computers, I try to have the Windows updates go on at the most convenient time (ie. leave it doing that while I go and do something else).

 

[Ichinisan]

It really seems that Microsoft has never cared very much about this aspect of the user experience. I can't tell you how many systems I've encountered where Windows Update was completely botched after a fresh install for no reason at all.

A guy at work just bought a secondhand laptop with Windows Vista on it. He doesn't need the laptop to do very much (just run the Chrome browser). It was infested with spyware, so he asked me to do a factory restore on it.

The factory restore process goes smoothly, but the HP bloatware was horrible. I uninstalled most of the bloatware, temporarily killed the Windows Update service, and connected to WiFi. I planned to save a lot of time updating by just downloading the offline installer for the latest service pack, and then just download the supplemental updates through Windows Update. Well, IE7 doesn't work on almost any web pages. It keeps showing an error message dialog saying something like "operation cannot be completed" after the page loads. After dismissing the error message, the page that was already loaded is replaced with an error page saying that the page could not be displayed ("check for network problems," etc) - a completely inappropriate error page. I know IE7 is old, but every page where I try to download IE9 or SP2 fails with the same error. I can't even download Chrome or Firefox.

Well, I happen to know how to download Firefox via command line FTP or explorer.exe's FTP support, but I resolved to find a way to do this without using third-party software and without shuttling files from another PC on a removable drive or disk. Well, after trying for waaay too long to download SP2 or IE9, I eventually gave up and spent countless hours installing updates through Windows Update. You know the drill: Check for updates, install them, restart, check for updates, ...

Finally, Windows Update is trying to install a service pack update...but it's SP1 instead of SP2 (?!). OK. So I start installing... Being a major service pack update, it launches its own installer with warning / agreement and a message saying how long to expect the process to take. It also warns that there will be multiple restarts. Well, just a minute or so after starting the update, it disappears and Windows Update dialog says the update was "installed successfully." I restarted the computer. System Properties still doesn't indicate any service pack is installed. I checked for updates and it wants to install SP1 again (even though it already appears as "successfully installed" in update history). After a many rounds of this, my history of installed updates shows SP1 over 5 times, each saying "successful." At this point, Windows *still* wants to install SP1.

I finally relent and download Firefox via FTP. From Firefox, I download/install Chrome. From Chrome, I download the offline install for Vista SP2 32-bit. It runs, but demand that I install SP1 first and exits. It's like Microsoft forgot that A SERVICE PACK SHOULD ROLL-UP ALL OTHER UPDATES BEFORE IT, INCLUDING PREVIOUS SERVICE PACKS.

I download SP1 offline install. Installs fine with no problems. I run SP2 install and it says I need IE9 a newer version of IE. Internet Explorer keeps directing me to Microsoft download pages that have no choice of x86/x64, but it keeps downloading the x64 installer for IE9. Once again, I have to use Chrome. After getting IE9 installed, SP2 finally installs.

Now I'll probably have to install dozens more updates to be caught-up. I couldn't get this far without third-party software or shuttling files from another PC. Way to go, Microsoft.

There's still the massive annoyance that this Synaptics touchpad moves slowly in the horizontal axis and quickly in the vertical axis. It's nearly unusable. The Synaptics software doesn't have a way to compensate.

 

[Bubbleawsome]

To be fair, my windows 6 install had to have the updates installed about 60mb at a time. It tried to install all 628mb of core updates at once and broke itself.

Also, there are packages online of every single update. I can't tell if that's what you did ichinisan but it might be helpful if you still need updates. I used it to update a PC with a broken windows update to the latest windows 7.

 

[Ichinisan]

To be fair, my windows 6 install had to have the updates installed about 60mb at a time. It tried to install all 628mb of core updates at once and broke itself.

Also, there are packages online of every single update. I can't tell if that's what you did ichinisan but it might be helpful if you still need updates. I used it to update a PC with a broken windows update to the latest windows 7.

Not making excuses for Microsoft. I've had many miserable experiences getting clean systems updated. It seems that having it go smoothly is the exception to the rule.

 

[escrow4]

It really seems that Microsoft has never cared very much about this aspect of the user experience. I can't tell you how many systems I've encountered where Windows Update was completely botched after a fresh install for no reason at all.

A guy at work just bought a secondhand laptop with Windows Vista on it. He doesn't need the laptop to do very much (just run the Chrome browser). It was infested with spyware, so he asked me to do a factory restore on it.

The factory restore process goes smoothly, but the HP bloatware was horrible. <snip>

Your fault for using an obsolete OS . . . . . . and trying to factory restore it. Should have just clean installed 8.1. Vista dies completely in April 2017 anyway.

 

[mikeymikec]

Your fault for using an obsolete OS . . . . . . and trying to factory restore it. Should have just clean installed 8.1. Vista dies completely in April 2017 anyway.

For someone who insists on using the very latest tech, you're sounding an awful lot like a broken record.

Please give it a rest.

 

[bunnyfubbles]

you can always slipstream the updates into your installation ISO (and can even customize it to include drivers, remove unwanted components, etc...really streamlining the install process)

although I will say that it is kind of bizarre that Microsoft doesn't do more update rollups/service packs like they used to

 

[Ichinisan]

Your fault for using an obsolete OS . . . . . . and trying to factory restore it. Should have just clean installed 8.1. Vista dies completely in April 2017 anyway.

Making excuses for Microsoft.

For the record, I've been through the same bull* with Windows 8.

Brand new, Win8.0 fresh install on an SSD back when 8.0 was still the latest. I start installing updates. After several updates, I encounter an update that will not install. Fails every time. No suggestions to resolve have any effect. I have to format/reinstall. Inexplicably, it works the next time.

Hmm...support until 2017? Sounds like this system is *exactly* what my coworker was looking for (something to run the Chrome web browser for cheap). I don't remember what he paid for it, but it was nearly nothing and the computer is in good condition.

 

[Ichinisan]

you can always slipstream the updates into your installation ISO (and can even customize it to include drivers, remove unwanted components, etc...really streamlining the install process)

although I will say that it is kind of bizarre that Microsoft doesn't do more update rollups/service packs like they used to

Not so easy when a manufacturer's recovery partition is all you have.

 

[mikeymikec]

For the record, I've been through the same bull* with Windows 8.

Me too, in fact going from Win8.1 RTM to being up-to-date on a brand-new, unused laptop. It wasted about two hours with two attempts to install a multitude of updates, and for some reason I had to disable Secure Boot so that two updates could install (though I don't think that had anything to do with the multitude failing).

 

[mohit9206]

A bit off topic but since you are talking about Vista, i wanted to ask is Vista still a good OS for gaming? I read few new games like Far Cry 4 and Alien Isolation don't have support for Vista but instead only for Windows 7/8.

 

[Ichinisan]

A bit off topic but since you are talking about Vista, i wanted to ask is Vista still a good OS for gaming? I read few new games like Far Cry 4 and Alien Isolation don't have support for Vista but instead only for Windows 7/8.

Probably just that Microsoft won't put out the latest DirectX for Vista.

For all I know, even XP would be fine for games if Microsoft would release the latest DirectX for XP.

 

[VirtualLarry]

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2424715

Just recently re-formatted a Dell Inspiron with Vista. Used a SP2 x64 ISO to start with, didn't have any real problems.

Ichinisan, try using a SP2-integrated Vista disc. I admit, I haven't come across a "clean" 32-bit one, but I did find a 64-bit one.

 

[Ichinisan]

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2424715

Just recently re-formatted a Dell Inspiron with Vista. Used a SP2 x64 ISO to start with, didn't have any real problems.

Ichinisan, try using a SP2-integrated Vista disc. I admit, I haven't come across a "clean" 32-bit one, but I did find a 64-bit one.

I'd definitely do that, if it was my own computer or if I was getting paid well for my time. Doing that would mean I'd have to spend extra time getting drivers and stuff from HP and elsewhere. If past experiences are any indication, I'm sure I wouldn't hit the same snag if I wiped it again and went through the exact same steps again.

 

[mohit9206]

I loved Vista. Didn't understand why people hated it so much. I bought a pre built HP desktop that came with Vista SP1 32 bit and it was rock solid. Sure those constant permission dialog boxes sucked but i just simply disabled them. Vista was such a huge upgrade from XP in terms of aesthetics and features its not even funny.
I never faced any performance issues even on a modest dual core Athlon 64x2 and 3gb ram and all my games also ran nicely without any compatibility issues.Why was Windows Vista considered a failure but Windows 7 was hailed i don't even understand as they are just not very different from each other. If anything Windows 8 was worse than Vista.

 

[nemesismk2]

Of course i am all for security and yes the updates are needed. Only wish they would see fit to throw a service pack out.

i agree having another service pack for windows 7 would be good.

 

[JoeBleed]

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2424715

Just recently re-formatted a Dell Inspiron with Vista. Used a SP2 x64 ISO to start with, didn't have any real problems.

Ichinisan, try using a SP2-integrated Vista disc. I admit, I haven't come across a "clean" 32-bit one, but I did find a 64-bit one.

Interesting, aside from technet, i only have two 32bit oem vista ISOs. one from dell says ultimate version. other is HP professional. Not recovery media, but the actual OS install disks. But i think i've made my technet isos work with oem keys by changing something in the setup.ini file. or it may have just worked with oem keys. i don't recall. i've only needed a vista disk twice and that was some time ago. If you're interested, let me know. only for ISO, no key of course.


for side jobs, i tend to use my technet iso with the users' key. works well and saves me a lot of headaches for base install. I will slipstream the latest service pack and IE into the iso before using it (generally keep that saved). If i KNOW they'll need .net, i'll include that. I just gave up on keeping an archive and list of updates to include. i've read about nlite, i've just never bothered.

A simple roll up pack for their current line of OS from XP to 8.1 would be great. Including office versions from 2003 to 2013. Also, make the 8.0 to 8.1 update a simple one package offline installer... last two times i've updated some 8.0s to 8.1s it was a pain. i only had the appstore work once. and, if it's not already, make the required update to even see 8.1 in the appstore a damn automatic critical update....