Windows randomly rebooting, much needed help!

[xNewtype]

So I'm working on a friend's computer, and it's tends to randomly reboot. It'll flash a blue error screen for a half second then reboot, so I generally can't catch what it says (although once or twice it has frozen on the blue screen, it said IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL or something like that...usually I'll get that screen if the computer reboot after I tried running something from the CD-ROM drive).

I've already done multiple scans with different scanners and multiple passes, and we've already cleaned out the computer of any kind of spyware/viruses. I've also reformatted the drives, installed Windows clean on a fresh new HDD, but the problem still remains, it'll usually reboot before the Welcome screen...if I can login, it'll sometimes reboot after I login, and if I get really lucky, I'll actually be able to use Windows for a bit, but then it'll reboot after trying some kind of operation (i.e. try to use the CD-ROM drive).

I'm thinking it's a motherboard problem, we've already tested the RAM, but the RAM seems to be OK...

Anyway, I'm wondering if I should go ahead and replace the entire motherboard? Or does anyone know what it could be?

FYI, the mobo is an ASUS P4S533-MX...it's one of those all-in-one mobo+video+audio+LAN+modem (I personally hate don't think those are reliable, but maybe it's just me). There's no PCI/AGP cards installed, and only a DVD-R and two HDD's installed (but the HDD's don't seem to have much bearing on the problem).

 

[FlyingPenguin]

Some suggestions:

- Swap the PSU

- How did you test the RAM? Nothing less than 12 hours with a ram tester like MEMTEST86+ will tell you if the ram is stable.

- Have you eliminated over heating (CPU & vid card?).

 

[dclive]

Originally posted by: xNewtype
So I'm working on a friend's computer, and it's tends to randomly reboot. It'll flash a blue error screen for a half second then reboot, so I generally can't catch what it says (although once or twice it has frozen on the blue screen, it said IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL or something like that...usually I'll get that screen if the computer reboot after I tried running something from the CD-ROM drive).

I've already done multiple scans with different scanners and multiple passes, and we've already cleaned out the computer of any kind of spyware/viruses. I've also reformatted the drives, installed Windows clean on a fresh new HDD, but the problem still remains, it'll usually reboot before the Welcome screen...if I can login, it'll sometimes reboot after I login, and if I get really lucky, I'll actually be able to use Windows for a bit, but then it'll reboot after trying some kind of operation (i.e. try to use the CD-ROM drive).

I'm thinking it's a motherboard problem, we've already tested the RAM, but the RAM seems to be OK...

Anyway, I'm wondering if I should go ahead and replace the entire motherboard? Or does anyone know what it could be?

FYI, the mobo is an ASUS P4S533-MX...it's one of those all-in-one mobo+video+audio+LAN+modem (I personally hate don't think those are reliable, but maybe it's just me). There's no PCI/AGP cards installed, and only a DVD-R and two HDD's installed (but the HDD's don't seem to have much bearing on the problem).

If you boot in safe mode does it do the same thing?
If you reinstall Windows without adding ANY non-Microsoft drivers, does it do the same thing?

Obviously if you just reinstalled Windows and it worked enough to install the OS, Windows itself is stable, so it sounds like a driver problem.

Do the first test at least and let us know what happens.

 

[birdpup]

Originally posted by: dclive

Originally posted by: xNewtype
So I'm working on a friend's computer, and it's tends to randomly reboot. It'll flash a blue error screen for a half second then reboot, so I generally can't catch what it says (although once or twice it has frozen on the blue screen, it said IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL or something like that...usually I'll get that screen if the computer reboot after I tried running something from the CD-ROM drive). ...

If you boot in safe mode does it do the same thing?
If you reinstall Windows without adding ANY non-Microsoft drivers, does it do the same thing?

Obviously if you just reinstalled Windows and it worked enough to install the OS, Windows itself is stable, so it sounds like a driver problem.

Welcome to the forums!

EDIT:
In Windows, right-click My Computer, select Properties, select Advanced tab, select Startup and Recovery Settings button, under System Failure deselect Automatically restart option. You will then be able to read the blue error screen error report.

When people program, they often do not understand their compiler errors and therefore waste too much time trying to figure out what is wrong with their program, even though the compiler is telling them exactly what the problem is, through the error statement. The same thing with the blue screen error. You caught the IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL error. Did you google this to see what happens when other people receive this error?

The last time I received this error, I had just installed a new backup imaging software to create backup images from my hard drives and store these images on my external hard drive. It turns out the backup program did not interact well with the driver for my external hard drive. So I uninstalled that backup program and re-installed the backup program supplied with the external hard drive to receive no further blue screen errors.

Something similar could be happening to your friend's computer. Did he install any new programs or drivers recently? Maybe you could revert back to a previous restore point? If your friend does not know what they installed to receive these errors, then I suggest uninstalling all programs possible, then test the system. If the system works, then you know one of those programs was the culprit. If the error still occurs, then it is time to uninstall the drivers.

I hope this helps.

 

[xNewtype]

Wow, thanks for the responses...what I've tried already or what-not...
I apologize by the way if I'm being very wordy, but I figure the more details, the better...

-When I thought of testing RAM, I kept thinking about having an actual physical RAM tester (oops), if I can actually get Windows stable enough, that's the next thing to try~

-I was considering it was a PSU problem, but the problem occurs so infrequently, I wasn't sure if that's the problem; I've had the computer run for 8 hours straight without rebooting. Then again, I don't think letting the computer idle is a good way to test it either =P

-Because of that, I don't think it's video or CPU. I have run low-level programs or haven't done anything majorly straining to the computer, and it'll reboot or it won't, but if I access the DVD drive, I'll have even a greater risk of rebooting. I didn't think those all-in-one mobos had a problem with the inboard video overheating though?

-It does the same thing in safe mode. In command prompt mode, not that I remember.

-I don't even have to install any kind of drivers, it'll just reboot. I've been able to install Windows fresh twice (with a re-format), and just last night, I struggled to get Windows XP and 2000 to even finish the install process; both would crash at different times of the install, once while trying to install the network, another time while registering components...and now only if I get lucky it'll actually get past the blue Windows load-up screens (when booting from CD). Heck, when I installed Windows clean, I had the worst time installing drivers because Windows kept rebooting when I tried running random files (i.e. it'll flash that blue screen and reboot when I tried to run the LAN drivers, next time I'll be able to install the LAN and sound, but in the middle of installing video, it'll reboot).

-The BIOS setting, there is no option to reboot, just "halt," and that's what it was set on. I did try turning off IRQ features and caching/shadowing, but to no avail. Even default settings worked for a little while, then kaput.

-The IRQL error, first link from Google says it's either from...

1. Mcafee VirusScan for Windows NT issue (which isn't installed)
2. Windows NT 3.51 upgrade from Windows NT 4.0 (Not applicable)
3. Service Pack (This is pre-SP1 WinXP, but I've never ever had a problem with this XP disc before, but I probably should try to installed SP1 and SP2)
4. Driver issue (No drivers were installed)
5. Hardware issue (What I was assuming, but they say it's likely to either be the CPU/NIC/RAM...if it's the NIC, then I have a problem since it's onboard)

The thing is though, I don't always get the IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL; I also was able to get something like PCN_NOT_FOUND (I can't remember if it's PCN, I was so frustrated at that point). There also doesn't have to be programs installed, it did it when the computer had a bunch of stuff installed, and after I did clean formats and fresh installs of Windows.


And here's a new development:
For whatever reason, my primary HDD's partitions were completely killed, so now my HDD is back to an unpartitioned 200 GB (it used to be split into 80-80-40). Previously when this problem started happening and I installed Windows for the first time, the secondary drive had two partitions that got corrupt; one of which I was able to recover, and the second of which I still can't figure out (it says that out of the 80GB of space, around 70 GB is being used...but not only was there supposed to be more space being used, Windows and any other program can't detect any files there, even with the "show hidden files" folder option is on!). I've run CHKDSK, CHKDSK /F, HD utility programs, tried updating the MBR, I'm really not sure what else I can do with this drive, nor can I figure out how the heck Windows (or whatever else) is screwing up all the partitions.

*edit*
After tirelessly trying to get any Windows to boot Setup off the CD, I replaced drives, and got into Windows setup...only to get a PAGE_FAULT_IN_NONPAGED_AREA because of setupdd.sys file, simply from selecting a drive to install Windows to. Now it's giving me a NTLDR not found error when I try booting from HDD or CD (same error I got with the other DVD/CD drive). I'm about to throw this computer out the window.

 

[dclive]

Originally posted by: birdpup

Originally posted by: dclive

Originally posted by: xNewtype
So I'm working on a friend's computer, and it's tends to randomly reboot. It'll flash a blue error screen for a half second then reboot, so I generally can't catch what it says (although once or twice it has frozen on the blue screen, it said IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL or something like that...usually I'll get that screen if the computer reboot after I tried running something from the CD-ROM drive). ...

If you boot in safe mode does it do the same thing?
If you reinstall Windows without adding ANY non-Microsoft drivers, does it do the same thing?

Obviously if you just reinstalled Windows and it worked enough to install the OS, Windows itself is stable, so it sounds like a driver problem.

Welcome to the forums!

In the bios, there is an option to automatically reboot the system when an error occurs. Find this option in your bios and disable it. You will then be able to read the blue error screen error report.

When people program, they do not understand their compiler errors and therefore waste too much time trying to figure out what is wrong with their program, even though the compiler is telling them exactly what the problem is, through the error statement. The same thing with the blue screen error. You caught the IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL error. Did you google this to see what happens when other people receive this error?

The last time I received this error, I had just installed a new backup imaging software to create backup images from my hard drives and store these images on my external hard drive. It turns out the backup program did not interact well with the driver for my external hard drive. So I uninstalled that backup program and re-installed the backup program supplied with the external hard drive to receive no further blue screen errors.

Something similar could be happening to your friend's computer. Did he install any new programs or drivers recently? Maybe you could revert back to a previous restore point? If your friend does not know what they installed to receive these errors, then I suggest uninstalling all programs possible, then test the system. If the system works, then you know one of those programs was the culprit. If the error still occurs, then it is time to uninstall the drivers.

I hope this helps.

Where you mention "BIOS" up above, I think you mean within Windows. Right-click on My Computer, Properties, Advanced, and you can change the reboot behavior during a bluescreen. True, Compaq servers have ASR, but somehow I don't think the OP has Compaq's ASR enabled. 🙂

If the system is rebooting during the XP install, it's a hardware problem, and I suggest returning the computer to your hardware vendor and getting another one.

 

[birdpup]

Originally posted by: dclive
Where you mention "BIOS" up above, I think you mean within Windows. Right-click on My Computer, Properties, Advanced, and you can change the reboot behavior during a bluescreen. True, Compaq servers have ASR, but somehow I don't think the OP has Compaq's ASR enabled. 🙂

You are correct. I just checked my bios and could not find it there like I thought. And I have seen, in the past, that option in Windows as you describe but had hopelessly forgotten it was there. Thank you for the correction.

 

[birdpup]

Originally posted by: xNewtype
-When I thought of testing RAM, I kept thinking about having an actual physical RAM tester (oops), if I can actually get Windows stable enough, that's the next thing to try~

It would make more sense to test the RAM first because Windows cannot be stable if the RAM is unstable.

Memory Tests
memtest86
memtest86+

... The thing is though, I don't always get the IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL; I also was able to get something like PCN_NOT_FOUND (I can't remember if it's PCN, I was so frustrated at that point). There also doesn't have to be programs installed, it did it when the computer had a bunch of stuff installed, and after I did clean formats and fresh installs of Windows.

And here's a new development:
For whatever reason, my primary HDD's partitions were completely killed, so now my HDD is back to an unpartitioned 200 GB (it used to be split into 80-80-40). ...

You may wish to test the hard drives with the hard drive manufacturer's diagnostic utility.

Hard Drive Manufacturer Diagnostic Utilities
Seagate
Western Digital
Maxtor
Fujitsu
Hitachi

But I like dclive's idea of returning the whole system if this is possible.

 

[xNewtype]

I can't return the system because...well it's a custom built system. My friend is willing to buy new parts, but I don't want them spending money on the wrong part (on, say, a new mobo , CPU, RAM, or case, just to find out only one of the parts was bad), and I've spent so much damn time on this infernal machine, I want to know what's wrong with it.

I've already used the diagnostic utilities, but nothing irregular shows up. Is there a 3rd party one or a particular brand you suggest? I used WD and Maxtor's, but it came up with nothing.

If the system is rebooting during the XP install, it's a hardware problem, and I suggest returning the computer to your hardware vendor and getting another one.

That's the problem, I know it's a hardware problem, but WHICH piece of hardware is what I'm trying to find out. It's not the CD-ROM, because as explained earlier, I tried switching out drives, I tried making a backup copy, but nothing seemed to work properly. The hard drive is clean too.

 

[mechBgon]

Test the RAM as best you can, and if it checks out ok, then try a different power supply, preferably a respectable brand.

If the RAM doesn't check out ok, then it still could be the PSU providing marginal voltages or regulation. Good RAM on bad power = who knows. You could try some different DDR memory in it to help narrow the possibilities further. There should be a jumper labelled DDRVOL1 to the right of the memory slots, and if you cap the middle pins, that's 2.7 volts according to my documentation. The bump could help your test RAM run properly, if it's fancy stuff that's spec'ed for something higher than 2.5V.

 

[birdpup]

Originally posted by: xNewtype
...
I've already used the diagnostic utilities, but nothing irregular shows up. Is there a 3rd party one or a particular brand you suggest?
...
That's the problem, I know it's a hardware problem, but WHICH piece of hardware is what I'm trying to find out. It's not the CD-ROM, because as explained earlier, I tried switching out drives, I tried making a backup copy, but nothing seemed to work properly. The hard drive is clean too.

Everest is a third party hard drive diagnostic utility that may help.
Everest Diagnostic Software

You may wish to follow standard procedure for detecting a defective hardware component by:
1) removing or disconnecting all hardware components except for the PSU, CPU, RAM, and video card,
2) start the system and run memtest for 2 passes minimum and preferably longer than 12 hours,
3) connect the system hard drive and run diagnostic tests on the hard drive,
4) start windows and see if error occurs,
5) shutdown the system and add one hardware component,
6) start windows and see if error occurs,
7) repeat steps 5&6 until component is detected.