Windows on ARM: Snapdragon vs core Y

[MarkizSchnitzel]

So, with Windows on ARM (Snapdragon), what can we expect next year?

How does current gen compare (I know, it's different form factors and OS, but still)?

What can we expect with S835 and next next years Core M?

Genuinely curious, sounds like a way for good, silent and performant enough computers for undemanding users.

 

[Qwertilot]

One thing that should be relatively guaranteed is either an overall lower cost or a better overall specification at the same price point. Intel + friends still mainly seem to be pitching CoreM as a chip for seriously expensive laptops, I can't quite imagine the S835 being used that way.

Benchmarks can get rather tricky with CoreM due to the way it throttles very hard under any sort of extended use. That has been improving over time, and will definitely improve with the next die shrink.

 

[ericlp]

Dunno, got a raspberry pi 3,

Broadcom BCM2837
CPU 1.2 GHz 64/32-bit quad-core ARM Cortex-A53

But, I only run raspbian on it. From what others tell me, running a copy of windows 10 on an ARM CPU, isn't the same as the intel version, you can't just expect to put windows on ARM and fire up chrome or any other app (windows logo) you use on 10 today. As windows is just a test platform for app development stage right now. I think one day it will get there, but nothing is compiled to run windows apps for ARM CPU's. At least with a huge user support base and the new chips being 64Bit, I think maybe a port of chrome to ARM, may happen ... But I don't think windows will be the platform for that.

 

[podspi]

I think this will have less of an impact on cheap wintabs than you'd think, given how cheap Intel is giving away Atom.

I think Snapdragon will be on 'premium affordable' wintabs. Personally I am hoping for a Surface 5 that is ARM based, a cheap(ish) Surface Pro 5 with atom or Core M, and then the full-blown Surface Pro 5.


You can get full Windows tablets for less than $100 - I can't imagine QC will be able to drive overall prices any lower, and I don't think they want to. They want to offer an alternative low-cost platform with a decent GPU, and acceptable performance for light legacy applications.

 

[Valantar]

Dunno, got a raspberry pi 3,

Broadcom BCM2837
CPU 1.2 GHz 64/32-bit quad-core ARM Cortex-A53

But, I only run raspbian on it. From what others tell me, running a copy of windows 10 on an ARM CPU, isn't the same as the intel version, you can't just expect to put windows on ARM and fire up chrome or any other app (windows logo) you use on 10 today. As windows is just a test platform for app development stage right now. I think one day it will get there, but nothing is compiled to run windows apps for ARM CPU's. At least with a huge user support base and the new chips being 64Bit, I think maybe a port of chrome to ARM, may happen ... But I don't think windows will be the platform for that.

So I take it you haven't read the news of MS launching X86 emulation on ARM, then? That's the basis of this thread, after all. With this, you will be able to fire up (pretty much) any regular Windows app on an ARM device. It just isn't launched yet. And yes, current W10 on ARM implementations are for testing. That's not what is being discussed.


I for one don't believe this will be competitive with anything above Atom, not unless Qualcomm finally get their collective heads out of their a**es and make an actually fast core. Apple's cores might come close in certain metrics, but Kryo, Exynos M1 and A72/73 aren't even in the same class as Core M.

 

[dark zero]

I think this will have less of an impact on cheap wintabs than you'd think, given how cheap Intel is giving away Atom.

I think Snapdragon will be on 'premium affordable' wintabs. Personally I am hoping for a Surface 5 that is ARM based, a cheap(ish) Surface Pro 5 with atom or Core M, and then the full-blown Surface Pro 5.


You can get full Windows tablets for less than $100 - I can't imagine QC will be able to drive overall prices any lower, and I don't think they want to. They want to offer an alternative low-cost platform with a decent GPU, and acceptable performance for light legacy applications.

Atom is pretty dead. ARM caugh them up big time and now they are being left behind.

 

[ericlp]

ARM chips aren't known for speed. Esp, the raspberry pi 3 is quad core...But, I can just imagine how much slower when being fed through an emulator. Yes, I have heard of the work in progress. Personally, I would not want to run ARM on a emulated Windows OS, as one would take at least 30% hit of performance doing that. By the time they actually get a working emulator that is performing well, Chromium will have been refined enough on the ARM side to do everything on the cloud. You won't even need to run Windows. Basically turning any ARM CPU into a chromebook. It will be interesting to see the development.

 

[Thala]

ARM chips aren't known for speed. Esp, the raspberry pi 3 is quad core...But, I can just imagine how much slower when being fed through an emulator. Yes, I have heard of the work in progress. Personally, I would not want to run ARM on a emulated Windows OS, as one would take at least 30% hit of performance doing that.

First of all you should not take PI 3 as reference, as it is using a Cortex A53 at low frequency. These are low-power small ARM cores. Second the OS and all driver, libs and system services are not emulated but run on ARM natively. Also all .Net/CLI apps are not subject to emulation as they are translated on the fly on both ARM and x86.

Apple's cores might come close in certain metrics, but Kryo, Exynos M1 and A72/73 aren't even in the same class as Core M.

They are certainly slower than Core-M in general at the same clock frequency but could come close under load, when Core-M is throttling down to 1GHz or less. In addition, since we are talking about SoCs, the integrated GPU of Snapdragon 835 should outperform the GPUs found in likes of Core M 6Y30 by quite some margin.

So all in all depending on workload i expect Snapdragon 835 to be faster in GPU bound situations and slower in CPU bound situations compared with Core-M6Y30.

 

[MarkizSchnitzel]

They are certainly slower than Core-M in general at the same clock frequency but could come close under load, when Core-M is throttling down to 1GHz or less. In addition, since we are talking about SoCs, the integrated GPU of Snapdragon 835 should outperform the GPUs found in likes of Core M 6Y30 by quite some margin.

So all in all depending on workload i expect Snapdragon 835 to be faster in GPU bound situations and slower in CPU bound situations compared with Core-M6Y30.

Thanks!

Considering that right now my primary computer is a T100 with a BayTrail atom (I do have a desktop, but meh), Snapdragon would be a huge leap. I am hoping for a viable 2-in-1 Snapdragon machine for light coding. Ala Yoga 700 form factor with snapdragon, on the cheap.

 

[Valantar]

Thanks!

Considering that right now my primary computer is a T100 with a BayTrail atom (I do have a desktop, but meh), Snapdragon would be a huge leap. I am hoping for a viable 2-in-1 Snapdragon machine for light coding. Ala Yoga 700 form factor with snapdragon, on the cheap.

Wasn't there at some point an 11" WinRT Yoga? I might be mistaken, but Lenovo tends to like oddball products. I wouldn't be surprised at all if what you're describing appears.

 

[Headfoot]

ARM chips aren't known for speed. Esp, the raspberry pi 3 is quad core...But, I can just imagine how much slower when being fed through an emulator. Yes, I have heard of the work in progress. Personally, I would not want to run ARM on a emulated Windows OS, as one would take at least 30% hit of performance doing that. By the time they actually get a working emulator that is performing well, Chromium will have been refined enough on the ARM side to do everything on the cloud. You won't even need to run Windows. Basically turning any ARM CPU into a chromebook. It will be interesting to see the development.

I had to check this thread was made in 2016, this reads like the running commentary in 2013....