Windows networking, why does it suck so much?

[JeffMD]

Running a linksys WRT1200. I have some devices including a MyCloud NAS connected via ethernet and then many laptops and stream devices over wifi.

My problem is some windows devices can see the MyCloud and some cannot. It is random. And the ones that can see the device will lose it if the router is rebooted. After days some may be able to see it again, but not guaranteed.

If I connect to the IP in file manager directly, it is fine, but as far as an icon for it under networking devices it can either be there and windows can't connect to it, or it won't be there at all.

Any way to unfark windows? It is only the windows PCs that have this issue.

 

[PliotronX]

When you don't have an internal dns or even wins server, fun things happen with hostnames. Accessing it by ip, what do you mean by icon under networking devices, do you mean a mapped drive? How are devices accessing the nas? What is the primary dns server set in dhcp?

 

[mikeymikec]

I'm with PliotronX on this one: by all means blame Windows if the router executes name resolution correctly when queried from every possible node. Frankly I don't understand why some routers have problems with this, though one thing I have regularly encountered through my work is that British Telecom's "BT Hub" has had a similar problem with its Thomson-rebranded routers for more than ten years in that from time to time it 'forgets' to update its name resolution list when IP address assignments change, so if a customer has a problem with wireless printing for example, I always suggest they power cycle the router first.

A possible solution would be to use the hosts file to specify the static IPs of essential network resources and circulate that file to all the clients. At least then if you have to change the IP at some point then you just update a file on each client rather than having to redo mapped network drives etc.

 

[JeffMD]

Plio, well a dns server in this case won't solve it, it IS a WinS issue. The thing is I haven't heard of a wins "server"..I suspect that when a local network scan is initiated the Windows names are picked up. Clearly while it may not work well, it does "work" without the user setting up any kind of server. Better understanding it and maybe finding out if the router can better manage it would be ideal.

/looks at how broke wins is these days
//maybe its time I embrace static IP.

 

[Genx87]

Given this MyCloud isn't a windows box. I doubt it is a wins(netbios) issue. Wins server is barely used anymore. It is from a time before Active Directory and how MS handled netbios requests. If you are using Wifi, make sure the devices are on the same broadcast domain. Also turn off client isolation on Wifi as this basically turns off netbios requests.

Or add a mapped drive via IP address. That is how I would do it.

 

[mikeymikec]

IIRC WINS (servers) was only used for bridging multiple subnets to allow a seamless single 'windows network' for file sharing, and netbios has been on its way out since Windows 2000. AFAIK WINS is utterly irrelevant.

 

[mxnerd]

When there is no WINS server on the network, Windows PC has to resort to name broadcasting.

https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc958811.aspx

https://www.techrepublic.com/article/how-netbios-name-resolution-really-works/

Clear the cache using "NBTStat –R" command might help.

Also turn off wireless client isolation if router has that option.

 

[JeffMD]

mycloud is on ethernet so wireless client isolation should be a non issue. NBTStat –R didnt help on this computer so windows naming is really a lost cause. Mxnerd, thanks for the links, I'll have to dive into that tech republic article if I want to try and resolve it. Frankly though it seems like a hit and miss prospect and just doing the work for static IPs once will fix the issue for all time.

 

[mxnerd]

There are a lot of discussions regarding WD MyCloud NAS name resolution here.

Windows 10 SMB versions play a big role here. Microsoft just keeps changing versions.

https://community.wd.com/t/windows-10-cant-see-my-cloud-workaround/142986/15

If problem persists, set a static ip for MyCloud and add an entry in Windows hosts file should help.

 

[PliotronX]

Plio, well a dns server in this case won't solve it, it IS a WinS issue. The thing is I haven't heard of a wins "server"..I suspect that when a local network scan is initiated the Windows names are picked up. Clearly while it may not work well, it does "work" without the user setting up any kind of server. Better understanding it and maybe finding out if the router can better manage it would be ideal.

/looks at how broke wins is these days
//maybe its time I embrace static IP.

This is why I inquired about connection method. Are you attempting to access the MyCloud by hostname? If so, a DNS server where hosts register their name and current IP would absolutely help. If the WRT1200 has the facility to enter hostnames manually as say DD-WRT does, you would not have to modify Hosts or LMHosts on any computer to address the MyCloud which hopefully is set statically already. Subsequently just set DHCP to propagate primary DNS to the WRT1200. Try a quick test, in cmd run nslookup hostname localipofwrt

I am unfamiliar with WD MyCloud units so I am unsure of their ability to understand LLMNR which is what allows for "zero configuration" name resolution in modern OS versions. Even itself is hit or miss from what I've seen.

 

[sdifox]

Is the dlna service on the router turned off?

 

[Aaron B]

Any way to unfark windows? It is only the windows PCs that have this issue.

The issue is because the Computer Browser Service relies on SMB v1, which has been depricated since 2014 (I think). Has been totally removed from Win10 FCU fresh install (again I think but not 100% sure).

Anyway, here is a link to a MS article explaining what is happening and why and some possible solutions (i.e. just map the drive).

Here ya go (copy and paste from the article also):


https://support.microsoft.com/en-us...ed-windows-10-and-windows-server-version-1709


Because the Computer Browser service relies on SMBv1, the service is uninstalled if the SMBv1 client or server is uninstalled. This means that Explorer Network can no longer display Windows computers through the legacy NetBIOS datagram browsing method.




To work around this issue, contact the manufacturer of the product that supports only SMBv1, and request a software or firmware update that support SMBv2.02 or a later version.


Explorer Network Browsing

The Computer Browser service relies on the SMBv1 protocol to populate the Windows Explorer Network node (also known as "Network Neighborhood"). This legacy protocol is long deprecated, doesn't route, and has limited security. Because the service cannot function without SMBv1, it is removed at the same time.

However, if you still have to use the Explorer Network in home and small business workgroup environments to locate Windows-based computers, you can follow these steps on your Windows-based computers that no longer use SMBv1:

Start the "Function Discovery Provider Host" and "Function Discovery Resource Publication" services, and then set them to Automatic (Delayed Start).
When you open Explorer Network, enable network discovery when you are prompted.

All Windows devices within that subnet that have these settings will now appear in Network for browsing. This uses the WS-DISCOVERY protocol. Contact your other vendors and manufacturers if their devices still don't appear in this browse list after the Windows devices appear. It is possible they have this protocol disabled or that they support only SMBv1.

Note We recommend that you map drives and printers instead of enabling this feature, which still requires searching and browsing for their devices. Mapped resources are easier to locate, require less training, and are safer to use. This is especially true if these resources are provided automatically through Group Policy. An administrator can configure printers for location by methods other than the legacy Computer Browser service by using IP addresses, Active Directory Domain Services (AD DS), Bonjour, mDNS, uPnP, and so on.

If you cannot use any of these workarounds, or if the application manufacturer cannot provide supported versions of SMB, you can re-enable SMBv1 manually by following the steps in KB 2696547.

Important We strongly recommend that you do not reinstall SMBv1. This is because this older protocol has known security issues regarding ransomware and other malware.

 

[Aaron B]

Also wanted to add (and as some others have pointed out here): A DNS server on your local LAN would help. Most consumer routers do not support this with factory supplied firmware. OTOH DD-WRT or Tomato, etc can be flashed to some routers and add DNS support. Or you can add a Linux based DNS server.

 

[sonitravel09]

You know a lot of that is just Windows parroting what the NIC driver is telling it? Look for a driver update.