Windows Media Center: Diagnosis, number of tuners, and plug-ins

[BonzaiDuck]

This thread could easily be posted in the "OS" or "HTPC" forums, but I'll stick it in "Software for Windows."

As some have reported recently in this or that forum or thread, Charter Cable has converted to "100% digital" since about May 20. This means the channel line-up has been augmented, changed, shuffled.

And it was just in the aftermath [a word suggesting that "it's over" but it probably isn't .. ] -- that I began having trouble with Media Center.

I would get "unhandled exception" warning-windows. The channel lineup wouldn't "line up" properly. My remote-control would occasionally cause "f***y" things to happen. I began to worry that Media Center had become corrupted, and investigated strategies for dealing with it. The ultimate "strategy:" reinstall Windows or do an "in-place upgrade-repair." Not as much trouble for a dedicated HTPC, but my "HTPC" isn't dedicated; it's my general-purpose computer.

Let's say that age has tempered impetuous reaction to panic in troubleshooting. I found a "USB" glitch in my system -- possibly affecting the remote-control behavior -- and purged it post-haste.

Next, I reinstalled my HD HomeRun Prime "Silly-Dust" tuner software. Then I scanned all the channels for each and every tuner. And then! I ran through Media Center setup to find the tuners, input the zip-code, select the "Charter Digital" provider option, and rescan the channels.

After that, I discovered that some parts of the Guide download had "errors." It occurred to me I should power-cycle the tuner-adapter and the Silly-dust device, then do the re-scans and MC setup again. Since MC's behavior is "much improved," I suspect this will get me error-free Guide downloads.

HOWEVER -- AND HERE'S THE LATEST DEVELOPMENT. I have TWO tuner devices: the Silly-Dust HomeRun-Prime, and an Hauppauge HVR-2250. The 2250 is connected to an OTA digital antenna -- offering "2.1, 2.2 . . . " channel numbers in addition to the integer identifiers of the Silly-Dust. This allows me to get broadcasts OTA when Charter has an outage, is undergoing some sort of maintenance -- or in the event of nuk-aler war and I need to tune in to the "Emer-gency Broad-cast Sys-tem." :biggrin:

The Silly-Dust has three tuners; the HVR-2250 has two. Media Center recognizes both, and never reported any sort of "limit" or problem.

Reading through the Silly-Dust web-pages of "instructions," I find something I missed before: "Media Center allows a default of four tuners," and there's a plug-in called "Tuner Salad" that extends the allowable number to 32.

Has anyone used this Tuner-Salad thing? Is it just another layer of complexity offering a greater chance of trouble? And how is it these tuners had seemed to be operating tip-top for the last few years? Is there REALLY a four-tuner-limit with Media Center?

 

[Virgorising]

Has anyone used this Tuner-Salad thing?

Reason I do not use it is cause it has Mercury in it.:sneaky:

 

[MongGrel]

Reason I do not use it is cause it has Mercury in it.:sneaky:

I thought he died years ago.

I all seriousness though, I avoid using WMC all together myself.

Personal thing I suppose.

 

[Virgorising]

I thought he died years ago.

:biggrin:

 

[BonzaiDuck]

I thought he died years ago.

I all seriousness though, I avoid using WMC all together myself.

Personal thing I suppose.

First, if you want to take the trouble, I'd like to hear your reasons. I'm probably starting a list of my own. Rest of you folks, I'm titillated with your lively banter.

There had been several alternatives to the Media Center Generations over the years. There were the paid-software "BeyondTV" and "SageTV." There is -- or was -- MythTV. There's something called XMBC or . . . something or other - I don't think I have it quite right.

I had licenses to both of the paid licenses, and used SageTV for some time. I can't say there was ever a time -- with XP-MCE, VISTA MC or Win7 MC that there weren't some bumps in the road.

Do you know for sure that it's corrupted? Or do you know for sure that it isn't? There are "settings" data files that can get corrupted, but they can be re-created.

I also hear that certain things I've also seen myself occur because the user had Live TV in a "window" and did "thus and such" with the remote.

There is a market dynamic which may follow the HTPC-TV saga. Google has bought up one or both of BeyondTV and Sage. Or -- another company bought the second software or development group. And I think that some people might just give up on Media Center TV or DVR functions if they had any trouble with them. But HDCP and mergers definitely reflect something about PC or tablet media features, or what will happen to the HTPC phenomenon or its enthusiasts.

I had another Media Center episode. MC locked up on the first attempt to "set up Media Center" and "configure video sources." Or rather, it was "busy" and unavailable until I killed it with Task Manager. I had to terminate MC after waiting an hour or two. Rebooting, I finally decided to try again -- with the program in full screen on the HDTV. It just sailed right through, and reloading the MC Guide listings showed "completed successfully."

 

[Virgorising]

First, if you want to take the trouble, I'd like to hear your reasons.

For whatever it might be worth, I disdain WMC because my media needs are very modest: playing music and watching videos. I am a cheap media date.

I simply use Winamp for the former and VLC for the latter; if I need to fiddle with images, I just use MS PAINT.

Clearly, your needs are far more complex and sophisticated!

 

[splat_ed]

Which version of Media Center? I use Win 7 with a Plex tuner (8 tuners) and haven't had any problems (although I haven't tested all 8 tuners at the same time - not enough interesting stuff on TV/not enough channels...!)

Could the instructions be referring to Win XP MCE and that restriction has lifted in later versions. I've never heard of that restriction and there's no mention in any instructions I've got.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

For whatever it might be worth, I disdain WMC because my media needs are very modest: playing music and watching videos. I am a cheap media date.

I simply use Winamp for the former and VLC for the latter; if I need to fiddle with images, I just use MS PAINT.

Clearly, your needs are far more complex and sophisticated!

Since Windows XP-MCE, it has been pretty-good-darn TV with DVR and the Stations of the Cross -- simultaneously.

It was less about needs, and more about progressively more obsessive interest in "making it work for me."

And it's sort of weird. I started fiddling with tuner cards -- probably around 1999. What had happened, of course, was that we were moving from an SD world into an HD world, and the Jack Valenti media Nazis midwifed the imposition of WDM and HDCP. These features complicate troubleshooting, or if they don't, they can complicate Media Center setup.

That's hardly all of it, though. I've tended toward NVidia graphics over ATI/Radeon for years. The NVidia folks have gone totally loose-cannon about "game enrichment." An entire plethora of troubles belches forth forum dialogs and complaints: "nVStream fouls up my network, and I don't even have a 'Shield' device." So people disable nVStreamService.

NVidia has this "GeForce Experience" program installed by default, which checks for updates, presents status info, and manages your installations. Every so few months, NVidia updates its drivers, its [G**D&&m] 3D Controller driver, its HD Audio driver. There's always a 50-50 chance that the new graphics driver may bork your MC settings; there's as good a chance that the latest audio driver will break it.

If you look around the web, people are whining and moaning about an MC message of "Video files are missing or damaged . . . restart media center or reboot your computer." I ran into a tip on my Silicon-Dust web-page that this is indicative of audio driver problems! And I must be losing my grip: I'd encountered this before, and the solution was to install either the MS Windows driver download or an earlier version of the audio drivers.

Which version of Media Center? I use Win 7 with a Plex tuner (8 tuners) and haven't had any problems (although I haven't tested all 8 tuners at the same time - not enough interesting stuff on TV/not enough channels...!)

Could the instructions be referring to Win XP MCE and that restriction has lifted in later versions. I've never heard of that restriction and there's no mention in any instructions I've got.

Maybe by "tuners" they mean "four devices." I haven't had any trouble -- per se -- with recording and watching with combinations of the HomeRun Prime and the HVR-2250. Silly-Dust techs are quick to throw blame at Hauppauge the tuner-card maker. By themselves, they've been well-behaved, but my AV/Firewall program had put some Silly-Dust drivers or programs in its Limited Restricted list, and I've had to "Trust" them fully.

When things work right, they work great. But make any changes to anything -- MC is finicky. And now that I've climbed K2, I want to stand on Everest by enabling two sets of 5.1 speakers for different programs -- simultaneously. I can see that it will be a steep climb. So far, just experimenting with any "possibilities" can foul up the HDMI link to my AVR.

 

[code65536]

I've never had problems like that with WMC, but one thing you could do is purge the WMC data cache, which effectively resets WMC.

I would suggest renaming the "C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\eHome" directory to something else (rename instead of delete in case you want to undo it).

Is there REALLY a four-tuner-limit with Media Center?

Nope. I have 6 tuners associated with my WMC, and it's a vanilla, unmodified WMC. No plugins.

Yes, there's a "limit", but there's no enforcement of it whatsoever.

You go add the tuners, and it'll let you select only 4 at first. Go through the setup (I always manually select the tuner and type instead of having it automatically detect the type of each tuner because it's so much faster--not sure if it makes a difference here, though), and towards the end, it'll ask if you're done or if you want to add more, and if you click the option to add more, you can get more than 4.

For whatever it might be worth, I disdain WMC because my media needs are very modest: playing music and watching videos. I am a cheap media date.

I simply use Winamp for the former and VLC for the latter; if I need to fiddle with images, I just use MS PAINT.

Clearly, your needs are far more complex and sophisticated!

Windows Media Center is, well, software for a media center. HTPC stuff. The main reason most people use WMC is for the TV tuning, and on Windows, WMC is, hands-down, the best TV software. Hell, I'll say it's the best TV software of any platform, and I've tried lots. If you don't have TV tuners, then there's no reason to use WMC. But just because you don't have a setup that needs WMC doesn't mean that you should go around and "disdain" it. That's like a guy saying that he disdains women's bras.

 

[Virgorising]

Windows Media Center is, well, software for a media center. HTPC stuff. The main reason most people use WMC is for the TV tuning, and on Windows, WMC is, hands-down, the best TV software. Hell, I'll say it's the best TV software of any platform, and I've tried lots. If you don't have TV tuners, then there's no reason to use WMC. But just because you don't have a setup that needs WMC doesn't mean that you should go around and "disdain" it. That's like a guy saying that he disdains women's bras.

I believe your account of WMC for anyone who needs those functions. I made it clear my media needs are very modest and THAT it why I disdain it: See BonzaiDuck's post, #8 which quotes me in this, so, no justification at lashing out here.

My choices are never arbitrary or capricious

 

[BonzaiDuck]

I've never had problems like that with WMC, but one thing you could do is purge the WMC data cache, which effectively resets WMC.

I would suggest renaming the "C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\eHome" directory to something else (rename instead of delete in case you want to undo it).


Nope. I have 6 tuners associated with my WMC, and it's a vanilla, unmodified WMC. No plugins.

Yes, there's a "limit", but there's no enforcement of it whatsoever.

You go add the tuners, and it'll let you select only 4 at first. Go through the setup (I always manually select the tuner and type instead of having it automatically detect the type of each tuner because it's so much faster--not sure if it makes a difference here, though), and towards the end, it'll ask if you're done or if you want to add more, and if you click the option to add more, you can get more than 4.


Windows Media Center is, well, software for a media center. HTPC stuff. The main reason most people use WMC is for the TV tuning, and on Windows, WMC is, hands-down, the best TV software. Hell, I'll say it's the best TV software of any platform, and I've tried lots. If you don't have TV tuners, then there's no reason to use WMC. But just because you don't have a setup that needs WMC doesn't mean that you should go around and "disdain" it. That's like a guy saying that he disdains women's bras.

I can see how many HTPC aficionados recommend building a compact, standalone system for it. Of course, once that's working, someone would get the idea to include their home-security system -- cameras, microphones, recording, etc.

It looks as though I've nailed down all the glitches with this system -- which is "general purpose."

It almost appears sometimes, when MC malfunctions, you could suspect a hardware problem, and do so in error. It is absolutely imperative to get it working with one set of video and audio drivers, and be cautious enough to create checkpoint/restore-points when upgrading those drivers. Tuner drivers also need "watching." But as you seem to suggest, you could include several tuners, or devices that include two or three tuners. If there are tuner network-devices, then you have to worry about the network dimension and possibly the configuration of your firewall and AV programs.

Once it can be confirmed that somehow the Media Center program modules have become corrupted, the only way to fix it would be an "upgrade-repair" OS installation, and after that -- a complete Windows re-install. I can see how some folks may jump on those options unnecessarily. You would determine file corruption first by running SFC/system-file-checker.

Less drastic -- you can "turn off" Media Center (and also Media Player, since the two are intertwined) through Control Panel, and then turn it "on" again -- which (I think) resets to the default settings.

There are a few things that need attention. There are probably Windows updates to MC; there is a regularly scheduled update to the Guide-listings; and there is an "optimization" process which needs to be scheduled. The guide listing updates won't complete with total success unless the channels offered by your cable-TV provider have been scanned and recognized -- by the tuner-device and by Media Center. Never noticed it before, but the optimization process seems to kick you out of TV broadcast until it's finished.

Despite all this and I may have said that I'd experimented with Sage- and Beyond-TV, I've long come to the conclusion that if you can handle things like DVD-burning or playing, DVR recording, music, photos, videos -- all through a Windows feature -- then it's a better choice than adding new layers of software.

So if I "liked" I-Tunes, there may be a way to integrate I-Tunes into Media Center, but the Media Center "Music" features seem to be fully adequate by themselves. You can integrate internet movie subscription services like Netflix, and so on. And some features or programs can be accessed either through Media Center -- or separately, through your desktop/"Start"-menu, etc.

Of course, once you do all these wonderful things, you've put your eggs -- most of 'em -- in a single basket. Getting things to work reliably again -- the effort can turn you into a "basket-case." :biggrin:

 

[BonzaiDuck]

code65536:

Here's the information I just found at the SiliconDust web-pages:

[" . . per tuner type." Key words defining Media Center tuner limits.]
" . . .
Tuner Salad

Want to add a 6CC to your home network or add another 3CC to your setup? Read on...

While on the My Channel Logos site, check out the other offering called Tuner Salad. Natively, Windows Media Center will recognize four tuners per tuner type. Tuner Salad increases this limitation to 32 per tuner type. Visit http://www.mychannellogos.com/tunersalad-dl for more information. This software is well worth the $10 donation I made to the author to support his efforts.
. . . "

 

[code65536]

Per type, eh? I see. My 6 aren't of the same type (4x ATSC, 2x ClearQAM), so I guess I hadn't truly tested the limits, then.