Windows MCE - what's the big deal?

MichaelD

Lifer
Jan 16, 2001
31,528
3
76
Getting ready to build a DVR/HTPC. A lot of the HTPC cases out there have a VFID display and they say "only works with MCE". Also, I've seen some capture cards that have reduced funtionality if not used with MCE.

Would you please explain why MCE is so much better than normal XP for a HTPC?

If it's going to enable some great functionality or be easier to use for the intended purpose, I'll buy it. If not, I'll stick with XP.

Thanks in advance for any assistance you can provide. :)
 

ViRGE

Elite Member, Moderator Emeritus
Oct 9, 1999
31,516
167
106
The Windows Media Center/MCE application (which is really all that makes MCE MCE and not just XP/Vista) is a specialized application for HTPC use. It's a combination TV tuning application, PVR application, media player, and widget platform. What you're finding is that various hardware is designed for use with MCE and either doesn't come with other software that can access all of its abilities (capture cards), or relies on a specific piece of data from MCE (VFID). As far as HTPCs are concerned, many people who are building HTPCs using Windows end up using MCE because it's well polished and extremely good at what it does; there's really nothing else out there for Windows that does everything MCE does as well as MCE. Furthermore starting with Vista, MCE becomes an application in Vista Premium instead of being part of a separate operating system.

Hopefully this can answer your questions.

Oh, and if you're building a HTPC and weren't going with MCE in the first place, I assume you had some other HTPC application in mind?
 

MichaelD

Lifer
Jan 16, 2001
31,528
3
76
Wow, that's a hugely informative and helpful reply! Thanks much, ViRGE! :thumbsup:

I am brand new to the DVR/HTPC scene; I did build a HTPC a few years ago, but all it really did was play MP3s thru the stereo. :eek:

What i was planning on doing was getting the ordinary Hauppagge PVR-150 LINK and probably buying SAGE TV to use with it.

Would it be better to get the MCE edition of the PVR card and run it with WinXP MCE than to do what I originally planned to do?

 

Pabster

Lifer
Apr 15, 2001
16,986
1
0
Vista Media Center is fantastic. The ability to throw extenders around your house and move all your content is great.
 

MichaelD

Lifer
Jan 16, 2001
31,528
3
76
Hmm, I don't think I'm ready for Vista headaches yet. Plus, the hardware I'm looking to use in this HTPC is older (NF2 motherboard)/AGP card. Not sure if Vista would like it very much (drivers). I have heard that the Vista Media Center is very nice though. :)
 

Mem

Lifer
Apr 23, 2000
21,476
13
81
Originally posted by: MichaelD
Hmm, I don't think I'm ready for Vista headaches yet. Plus, the hardware I'm looking to use in this HTPC is older (NF2 motherboard)/AGP card. Not sure if Vista would like it very much (drivers). I have heard that the Vista Media Center is very nice though. :)

Bah no Vista headaches ,is that fear I sense in you young jedi ;) ,but I see your point about your NF2 however,its worth it if you have a newer system ie nForce 4 etc..

My Leadtek USB DTV tuner is working fine in Vista x64 HP (only had to install the Leadtek driver and set it up in Windows Media Centre,done in mins)
 

MichaelD

Lifer
Jan 16, 2001
31,528
3
76
Fear? No; no fear here. Absolute terror? Ohh yeah, we got plenty of that! :shocked: LOL! Too many Vista headaches still about...I'll wait for SP2 on that OS before I jump.

Thanks though, Mem. :thumbsup:
 

loup garou

Lifer
Feb 17, 2000
35,132
1
81
Vista Media Center is way less headaches than XP MCE. More builtin drivers for TV tuners, builtin MPEG2 decoder, etc. My first MCE box with MCE 2004 was a nightmare of trying different decoders, tuner drivers, etc. trying to get a good picture with no motion blur or visible interlacing. It got better with the last version of XP MCE & Rollup 2, but Vista, just popped in the DVD and came back to a fully working machine.
 

tatteredpotato

Diamond Member
Jul 23, 2006
3,934
0
76
I have a Vista MC setup on my desktop on a standard PC monitor, but using my Xbox 360 you can get the exact same MCE UI anywhere you have a LAN connection in your house.

I haven't used XP MCE, but Vista MC has been hassle free for me.
 

MichaelD

Lifer
Jan 16, 2001
31,528
3
76
Is Vista Media Center a separate Vista OS (like XP MCE?) I've been looking for it and can't find it? Is the Media Center just part of the Vista OS?
 

Mem

Lifer
Apr 23, 2000
21,476
13
81
Originally posted by: MichaelD
Is Vista Media Center a separate Vista OS (like XP MCE?) I've been looking for it and can't find it? Is the Media Center just part of the Vista OS?


Go here ,as you can see both Home Premium and Ultimate version have WMC.

Info here too. (click on the "more entertaining "link ,just left on that webpage)
 

Pabster

Lifer
Apr 15, 2001
16,986
1
0
Originally posted by: MichaelD
Hmm, I don't think I'm ready for Vista headaches yet. Plus, the hardware I'm looking to use in this HTPC is older (NF2 motherboard)/AGP card. Not sure if Vista would like it very much (drivers). I have heard that the Vista Media Center is very nice though. :)

Vista works fine. I had it running flawless on an nForce2-based machine a few months back. Drivers are there.
 

ViRGE

Elite Member, Moderator Emeritus
Oct 9, 1999
31,516
167
106
Originally posted by: MichaelD
Wow, that's a hugely informative and helpful reply! Thanks much, ViRGE! :thumbsup:

I am brand new to the DVR/HTPC scene; I did build a HTPC a few years ago, but all it really did was play MP3s thru the stereo. :eek:

What i was planning on doing was getting the ordinary Hauppagge PVR-150 LINK and probably buying SAGE TV to use with it.

Would it be better to get the MCE edition of the PVR card and run it with WinXP MCE than to do what I originally planned to do?
What card you get is up to you. The basic hardware is the same between them, the only thing that sets the two cards apart is that the MCE edition comes with a radio tuner and a remote/IR receiver combo designed for use with MCE, while the normal edition comes with a pretty much useless remote for Hauppagge's own TV tuner application. Even if you don't go with the MCE software, I'd get the MCE hardware package since the MCE remote is pretty nice and works with a lot of software besides MCE (and you're going to need a remote one way or another).
 

MichaelD

Lifer
Jan 16, 2001
31,528
3
76
Originally posted by: ViRGE
Originally posted by: MichaelD
Wow, that's a hugely informative and helpful reply! Thanks much, ViRGE! :thumbsup:

I am brand new to the DVR/HTPC scene; I did build a HTPC a few years ago, but all it really did was play MP3s thru the stereo. :eek:

What i was planning on doing was getting the ordinary Hauppagge PVR-150 LINK and probably buying SAGE TV to use with it.

Would it be better to get the MCE edition of the PVR card and run it with WinXP MCE than to do what I originally planned to do?
What card you get is up to you. The basic hardware is the same between them, the only thing that sets the two cards apart is that the MCE edition comes with a radio tuner and a remote/IR receiver combo designed for use with MCE, while the normal edition comes with a pretty much useless remote for Hauppagge's own TV tuner application. Even if you don't go with the MCE software, I'd get the MCE hardware package since the MCE remote is pretty nice and works with a lot of software besides MCE (and you're going to need a remote one way or another).

ViRGE, you've been a great help.

Well, you know what happens when you start surfing Newegg and the rest of the "Gimme Yo'Money, Foo!" Geek Sites...you go way over budget with your project. :( But I'm happy b/c I got gear that I'll be happy with.

I got the WinTV-PVR-150-MCE-Kit with remote along with WinXP MCE 2005. I decided against Vista due to the hardware/RAM requirements; I refuse to sit there for an hour and disable "features" b/c my system can't function properly w/them engaged. Besides; the support for the PVR150 (and the rest of the system for that matter) under XP is well-defined and long-existing already.

I also sprung for the Silverstone SST-LC16B-MR case. I'm good to go for storage expansion, for sure.

B/T the remote that comes with the case for MCE and the VFID and the Hauppaugge MCE remote, I'm assuming (still a n00blet here...) that I'll have it all covered.

I just want to sit on my ass, watch my previously recorded shows, listen to MP3's while watching visualizations and surf on the big screen. I think I'm good to go.

Now all I've to to do is set it all up without getting pissed off and smashing it all to bits. ;)

ps
Instead of the NF2 system, I'll transplant my current rig (C2D E6400/2GB RAM) and a 2600XT into the case.

And I'm done with upgrading/new projects for the rest of 2008.

/whistles

Maybe not going the Vista route was a mistake...but I dont' feel that way ATM. Besides, I've used Vista exactly two times for a total of about an hour...it was XP w/smoothy-graphic menus and lots of pop ups...
/shrugs
I like XP...
 

BD2003

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
16,815
1
81
As other has said, WMC is very good at doing the things that it does well. I've personally only used the Vista version.

There is no better PVR, it plays DVDs trouble-free, and it has the nicest looking interface out of any HTPC software. Where it really falls apart (for me at least) is watching downloaded videos (.avis, .wmvs etc), and network access.

The media library is irritating, it will put album art amongst your pictures, sound effects amongst your movies etc. Its extremely difficult to get it to do as simple a thing as NOT watch a folder, and I've found that once in the library, always in the library, unless you want to redo the entire thing. It also forces thumbnail views, presenting you with a bunch of thumbnails (usually of the first blank frame), forcing you to scroll all over the place until you find what youre looking for..

On top of that, it is maddeningly slow browsing network files.

And the interface is extremely non-configurable. You will be greeting with this massive crossbar interface, where that majority of entires are going to be useless to you, and there is no way to streamline or simplify it.

Basically, if you live in a microsoft world, use only microsoft software, wmv videos, and use microsoft media library sharing in WMP across your network, you will have few issues with MCE. As soon as you step outside of the narrow microsoft-only vision they have in mind, it begins to fall apart. Its so bad I absolutely refuse to use it for watching ripped dvds off my server, and only use it for watching/recording tv.
 

QuixoticOne

Golden Member
Nov 4, 2005
1,855
0
0
XP MCE or Vista MC in Home Premium or Ultimate = DRM Hell.

That said, it's about the only game in town unless you
set something up with LINUX.

The other "main reason" you "need" MCE is I think the
artificial "DRM HELL" restrictions they put on things.

There's often no technical REASON you can't put all your
MP3s, WMV media, DVR files, etc. on say XP Home edition
and stream them over a LAN to serve media to other PCs and
devices around your house. Often you can get DVR capture
applications for XP Home instead of MCE, for instance the
HDTV wonder card I have in one XP home box.

I've heard, though, that they've intentionally crippled
some things about certain of their media center extenders
like the XBOX or whatever so that they just won't work
fully capably UNLESS you're using them
WITH XP-MCE or Vista HP/Ultimate's MCE (as opposed to
just streaming to/from XP-Home or Linux or other file server). In that case MCE may not technically be doing
much anything that you couldn't achieve with another OS,
but they may have taken that option away from you with
DRM and vendor / configuration lock-ins etc.

I'd probably say Vista Home Premium would be a better
choice than XP-MCE just since the former is getting most
of the support these days and the latter was late to market
and kind of poorly supported by many drivers / programs
etc. for a while at least.

 

stash

Diamond Member
Jun 22, 2000
5,468
0
0
The media library is irritating, it will put album art amongst your pictures, sound effects amongst your movies etc
I'm not sure why you are seeing this, but this should not be happening. My album art does not get mingled with my pictures.

It also forces thumbnail views, presenting you with a bunch of thumbnails (usually of the first blank frame), forcing you to scroll all over the place until you find what youre looking for
The thumbnails can be irritating, but there are a lot of other views you can use. Just hit the up arrow and then scroll right or left to see different views. And I'm pretty sure it remembers the last view you use. So I use the artist view all the time for my music collection. And using a media center remote, you can enter the first letter of an artist to skip. This works in any view. So if you want to get to artists starting with the letter F, hit the '3' key three times for and it will skip ahead.
 

pcslookout

Lifer
Mar 18, 2007
11,958
156
106
The only thing I hate about watching tv on my pc with a tv tuner card is sometimes when trying to watch tv the sound will start to repeat or freeze at one spot. The picture will go in and out or be totally blue with no picture. I have to reboot and make sure I start up watching tv live right when I bootup into vista. Though this is not a windows vista 64 bit or windows media center because I had the same thing happen to me on beyondtv and sagetv. It really sucks. I have a pv150 tv tuner card and the latest windows vista 64 bit drivers. I really don't get it. I just hate having to keep windows media center open all the time when I really don't need it so I can make sure my live tv works smoothly. If I don't and try to open windows media center after by pc has been in use for a while windows media center either won't have a picture on live tv or it will start to have that sound repeating issue then where the whole picture freezes. Does the same thing even if I restart windows media center at the time.
 

Griffinhart

Golden Member
Dec 7, 2004
1,130
1
76
The best place to go for Windows Media Center info and help is:

http://thegreenbutton.com/

It's a great resource with a lot of helpful information and links.

I've been using Windows MCE for 3 years now. I absolutely love it. I started with MCE 2005 and then went to Vista for my Media Center a year ago.

I really recommend the Hauppauge PVR 500 MCE.
http://hauppauge.com/pages/products/data_pvr500mce.html

It works with both MCE 2005 and Vista just fine. It has two TV tuners on one card. Something you really want for a PVR system. A single tuner just doesn't cut it really.

You may also want to consider picking up an over the air HD tuner as well. That is if you have good HD reception in your area. Media Center supports two Standard Def Tuners +1 HD tuner.

Keep an eye out for the recently announced Direct TV tuners for Media Center. I believe they are going to be Vista only, however.

You may also want to consider Media Center Extenders. The realy gem of the Media Center universe IMHO. You can set up your media Center PC in any room of the house like your office. then you can attach Extenders to TV's in the house. They "extend" the MCE interface to that TV and streams Live TV, Radio, Music, Recorded Media/TV to any Extender over your Wired or Wireless network.

You have Various choices of Extenders now too.
HP makes Media Smart TV's that have extenders built in. So, no external box needed!
The X-Box 360 has extender software built in to every one.
Linksys has two models:http://www.linksys.com/servlet...ommon%2FVisitorWrapper

One with an upscaling DVD player the other without.

Dlink has one as well:
http://www.dlink.com/products/?pid=547&sec=1

The real advantage of using the HP MediaSmart TV's and the Linksys and Dlink products are that they are silent. You don't need to set up a noisy PC in the livingroom. If you have a 360, it's a nice solution too, but let's face it. 360's aren't exactly running in stealth mode.

Anyway, I'm a huge Media Center Fan. I highly recommend it to anyone.

Just a couple of extra notes. I don't have any problems with video freezing. I have two 360's on a Wireless .11a network and I can stream Live/Recorded TV to both of them at the same time with no network congestion. The new Wirelss N stuff should be even better.
 

VinDSL

Diamond Member
Apr 11, 2006
4,869
1
81
www.lenon.com
Originally posted by: MichaelD
Is Vista Media Center a separate Vista OS (like XP MCE?) I've been looking for it and can't find it? Is the Media Center just part of the Vista OS?

Vista Home Premium is equivalent to XP MCE.

It has everything you'll need for normal HTPC! ;)
 

pcslookout

Lifer
Mar 18, 2007
11,958
156
106
Griffinhart thanks for the information and I am happy I can at least get my windows media center working even if its only after I restart my pc at times. What I think the problem is that their is a driver issue somewhere and for some reason when windows media center is started before hand it works fine but if it ever is started after it won't work. There are plenty of people with this problem that I saw and haven't even be able to fix it.
 

BD2003

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
16,815
1
81
Originally posted by: stash
The media library is irritating, it will put album art amongst your pictures, sound effects amongst your movies etc
I'm not sure why you are seeing this, but this should not be happening. My album art does not get mingled with my pictures.

Yeah, who knows. I must not have my folders organized in the microsoft sanctioned method. If I could just simply tell it to use my "music" folder for music, and my "pictures" folder for pictures, I wouldnt have this problem. Instead, I just add folders to the library, and media center puts it where it wants to.

The thumbnails can be irritating, but there are a lot of other views you can use. Just hit the up arrow and then scroll right or left to see different views. And I'm pretty sure it remembers the last view you use. So I use the artist view all the time for my music collection. And using a media center remote, you can enter the first letter of an artist to skip. This works in any view. So if you want to get to artists starting with the letter F, hit the '3' key three times for and it will skip ahead.

Its thumbnails or nothing in the video folder. I can choose between date or name, but neither really helps me easily find what I'm looking for when I still have to check the useless all black first frame thumbnails for what I'm looking for.

And really, I could probably deal with that if it didnt take 2 minutes to launch a file off a network share. Dunno wtf the deal with that is, but no other program has it.
 

tatteredpotato

Diamond Member
Jul 23, 2006
3,934
0
76
Originally posted by: QuixoticOne
XP MCE or Vista MC in Home Premium or Ultimate = DRM Hell.

That said, it's about the only game in town unless you
set something up with LINUX.

The other "main reason" you "need" MCE is I think the
artificial "DRM HELL" restrictions they put on things.

There's often no technical REASON you can't put all your
MP3s, WMV media, DVR files, etc. on say XP Home edition
and stream them over a LAN to serve media to other PCs and
devices around your house. Often you can get DVR capture
applications for XP Home instead of MCE, for instance the
HDTV wonder card I have in one XP home box.

I've heard, though, that they've intentionally crippled
some things about certain of their media center extenders
like the XBOX or whatever so that they just won't work
fully capably UNLESS you're using them
WITH XP-MCE or Vista HP/Ultimate's MCE (as opposed to
just streaming to/from XP-Home or Linux or other file server). In that case MCE may not technically be doing
much anything that you couldn't achieve with another OS,
but they may have taken that option away from you with
DRM and vendor / configuration lock-ins etc.

I'd probably say Vista Home Premium would be a better
choice than XP-MCE just since the former is getting most
of the support these days and the latter was late to market
and kind of poorly supported by many drivers / programs
etc. for a while at least.

Ummm this seems to be a big pile of FUD to me. I run Vista HP and the only "format lockin" I have really is the .dvr-ms the system records to, but this isn't much of an issue. However I simply have a program set to monitor my recorded TV folder and automatically remove commercials and transcode to h.264 or divx which I easily stream over my network to my Xbox 360.

Also my Xbox 360 streams DivX and H.264 just as easily from my XP Pro Laptop, so I have no idea how it is "crippled"
 

MichaelD

Lifer
Jan 16, 2001
31,528
3
76
Originally posted by: Griffinhart
The best place to go for Windows Media Center info and help is:

http://thegreenbutton.com/

It's a great resource with a lot of helpful information and links.

I've been using Windows MCE for 3 years now. I absolutely love it. I started with MCE 2005 and then went to Vista for my Media Center a year ago.

I really recommend the Hauppauge PVR 500 MCE.
http://hauppauge.com/pages/products/data_pvr500mce.html

It works with both MCE 2005 and Vista just fine. It has two TV tuners on one card. Something you really want for a PVR system. A single tuner just doesn't cut it really.

You may also want to consider picking up an over the air HD tuner as well. That is if you have good HD reception in your area. Media Center supports two Standard Def Tuners +1 HD tuner.

Keep an eye out for the recently announced Direct TV tuners for Media Center. I believe they are going to be Vista only, however.

You may also want to consider Media Center Extenders. The realy gem of the Media Center universe IMHO. You can set up your media Center PC in any room of the house like your office. then you can attach Extenders to TV's in the house. They "extend" the MCE interface to that TV and streams Live TV, Radio, Music, Recorded Media/TV to any Extender over your Wired or Wireless network.

You have Various choices of Extenders now too.
HP makes Media Smart TV's that have extenders built in. So, no external box needed!
The X-Box 360 has extender software built in to every one.
Linksys has two models:http://www.linksys.com/servlet...ommon%2FVisitorWrapper

One with an upscaling DVD player the other without.

Dlink has one as well:
http://www.dlink.com/products/?pid=547&sec=1

The real advantage of using the HP MediaSmart TV's and the Linksys and Dlink products are that they are silent. You don't need to set up a noisy PC in the livingroom. If you have a 360, it's a nice solution too, but let's face it. 360's aren't exactly running in stealth mode.

Anyway, I'm a huge Media Center Fan. I highly recommend it to anyone.

Just a couple of extra notes. I don't have any problems with video freezing. I have two 360's on a Wireless .11a network and I can stream Live/Recorded TV to both of them at the same time with no network congestion. The new Wirelss N stuff should be even better.


Great post, Griffinhart. Thank you. I will use that Thegreenbutton site, I'm sure.

I got the MCE version of the PVR-150. I know it only has one tuner but that will be OK for me b/c we don't have cable; it's not available. We have satellite and only one tuner box.

So, that means whatever channel the box is tuned to is the one we watch/record. The sat decoder box only has one lousy output and it's composite. It is a strong signal, though. So, the PVR500 would be useless for me. I won't be using the DVR card to actually tune the station; just to capture the video as fed to it by the decoder box.

I'm glad to read about your positive experiences with MCE; I hope mine are as good as yours. :) I'll be doing a clean load on a pretty healthy system (C2D E6400/2GB RAM2600XT video) so it should run smoothly.

I'm planning on having a Wireless "G" (54MB/s) card in the box. It won't be streaming anything from the network though; all files will be local. I'll use the wireless for surfing and keeping the Antivirus and OS updated.

I'm hoping (assuming?) that I won't have any DRM problems. I have a 80+GB folder with my MP3s in it; they are all "home ripped" files...no bought on IPod.com or anything like that. And I'll record video straight off the sat box's output...I should be OK, right?
 

tatteredpotato

Diamond Member
Jul 23, 2006
3,934
0
76
Originally posted by: MichaelD


Great post, Griffinhart. Thank you. I will use that Thegreenbutton site, I'm sure.

I got the MCE version of the PVR-150. I know it only has one tuner but that will be OK for me b/c we don't have cable; it's not available. We have satellite and only one tuner box.

So, that means whatever channel the box is tuned to is the one we watch/record. The sat decoder box only has one lousy output and it's composite. It is a strong signal, though. So, the PVR500 would be useless for me. I won't be using the DVR card to actually tune the station; just to capture the video as fed to it by the decoder box.

I'm glad to read about your positive experiences with MCE; I hope mine are as good as yours. :) I'll be doing a clean load on a pretty healthy system (C2D E6400/2GB RAM2600XT video) so it should run smoothly.

I'm planning on having a Wireless "G" (54MB/s) card in the box. It won't be streaming anything from the network though; all files will be local. I'll use the wireless for surfing and keeping the Antivirus and OS updated.

I'm hoping (assuming?) that I won't have any DRM problems. I have a 80+GB folder with my MP3s in it; they are all "home ripped" files...no bought on IPod.com or anything like that. And I'll record video straight off the sat box's output...I should be OK, right?


This problem with that setup is that if you aren't actually tuning with the integrated tuner, your PC won't have any control over what channel is on. I'm not sure if there are any workarounds to this, but if I'm right you won't easily be able to use the built in guide and scheduler.