Windows Home Server and hardware compatibility

[BonzaiDuck]

I've been chomping at the bit to upgrade from a P4-533-Rambus-based file server running Windows 2000 Pro. The plan would be to move the PCI RAID controller (HighPoint) to a spare LGA775 C2D-compatible motherboard, keep the same Antec 500W PSU (about two or three years old), and replace the RAID0 array from which W2K-Pro boots (a growing risk, all would say, and it concerns me.)

The way the Highpoint is set up, there is a security feature I wish I hadn't enabled on the array, which makes the array inaccessible if the hardware changes. But no problem -- except for the extra work: the system also has a hot-swap Startech cage-and-caddy system for some spare IDE drives, which I use to back up the folders on the RAID5. (Unfortunately, the RAID5 (probably) required creation of a dynamic partition, and cannot simply be "cloned" to the hot-swap -- I just discovered that issue today.

Especially, it is time -- and overdue -- for getting rid of Win 2000 Pro. So I was planning to spring for the OEM Windows Home Server.

Among consumer reviews, I read a post where someone said that WHS doesn't play well with hardware disk controllers. Is this true? Is there "no way out?" I can see that if such is the case, I'd have to find a better choice of an OS than WHS. It would be more ambitious and expensive, as with Windows 2003 Server or later, or less ambitious with an XP install.

What's the "skinny on the street" about this?

 

[RebateMonger]

As long as you have drivers for your RAID card for Windows Server 2003, you can use it as an underlying drive for Windows Home Server. WHS has no way to know that a supplied "hard drive" is actually a RAID array.

On the other hand, there aren't many reasons to use redundant RAID with Windows Home Server. WHS has its own built-in redundancy for data folders if you want to use it. The best reason to use a redundant RAID array would be to protect the "System Disk" where the WHS operating system is installed. The OS itself isn't backed up by Windows Home Server, so if the system disk fails, you have to re-install the OS.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Originally posted by: RebateMonger
As long as you have drivers for your RAID card for Windows Server 2003, you can use it as an underlying drive for Windows Home Server. WHS has no way to know that a supplied "hard drive" is actually a RAID array.

On the other hand, there aren't many reasons to use redundant RAID with Windows Home Server. WHS has its own built-in redundancy for data folders if you want to use it. The best reason to use a redundant RAID array would be to protect the "System Disk" where the WHS operating system is installed. The OS itself isn't backed up by Windows Home Server, so if the system disk fails, you have to re-install the OS.

Generally, I've foresworn installing drivers for controllers that ship with the hardware, and go to manufacturer web-sites to download drivers. I'd be surprised if Highpoint didn't have those Win Server 2003 drivers, but I'll check before I make the leap.

I'm only guessing that WHS doesn't depart from other Win OS's in having an install sequence that prompts for "F6" if you want to install drivers. And on some WHS forum -- I'm reading through these things too quickly to come back with accurate foundations -- I thought I saw where someone spoke of having trouble getting WHS to install on the array.

But if that's not true, if I can make such an install of WHS, then it will cut the current five-drive power-draw so that I'll only need three drives.

Even though all the drives in the system are IDE, they are of sufficient capacity and of recent make that I want to get a few more years out of the controller and the disks.

EDIT: I just checked Highpoint's website for the 454 RAID controller. There is a single file download with a driver or driver versions that covers Windows 2003. I dunno-- all change is risk, unless the situation is gone so badly to the crapper that you embrace the risk to flee the alternative . . . . [Any more of this and I should be admonished to post on the political forum . . ]

 

[RebateMonger]

Highpoint has always been good about OS drivers. They even have Server 2008/Vista 32/64 drivers for my old HighPoint RocketRAID 133 cards, that were built around 2002. I successfully put that old IDE RAID card into a Dell SC440 with Server 2008 Hyper-V.

I know that at least one of the Moderators here uses RAID 1 on his Windows Home Server box (for the system drive). And I haven't read of any unusual issues with getting WHS on a RAID array. It's NOT supported by Microsoft, but folks are doing it successfully.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Originally posted by: RebateMonger
Highpoint has always been good about OS drivers. They even have Server 2008/Vista 32/64 drivers for my old HighPoint RocketRAID 133 cards, that were built around 2002. I successfully put that old IDE RAID card into a Dell SC440 with Server 2008 Hyper-V.

I know that at least one of the Moderators here uses RAID 1 on his Windows Home Server box (for the system drive). And I haven't read of any unusual issues with getting WHS on a RAID array. It's NOT supported by Microsoft, but folks are doing it successfully.

Last few years, I let my PC-building pastime take a front-seat among financial priorities with my retiree income. After the last year's meltdown, I want to make sure every purchase counts.

If this is indeed the case as you describe it per WHS, I'll go forward and place my order.

 

[VirtualLarry]

I wish I had the link, but I found some instructions for getting WHS to use GPT-formatted partitions for storage disks. The problem, and I think BSobel can expand on this if necessary, is that the storage console feature of WHS defaults to "Basic" partitions when formatting, which are limited to 2TB in size. RAID arrays can often be much larger than that.

Personally, I hope MS releases a patch, as the underlying OS (Server 2003) supports GPT just fine. It seems to just be a design oversight by MS. After all, 2TB HDs are on the market already, and larger ones are just around the corner. It seems silly that one wouldn't be able to use the full disk size, especially on a "server" OS.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Originally posted by: VirtualLarry
I wish I had the link, but I found some instructions for getting WHS to use GPT-formatted partitions for storage disks. The problem, and I think BSobel can expand on this if necessary, is that the storage console feature of WHS defaults to "Basic" partitions when formatting, which are limited to 2TB in size. RAID arrays can often be much larger than that.

Personally, I hope MS releases a patch, as the underlying OS (Server 2003) supports GPT just fine. It seems to just be a design oversight by MS. After all, 2TB HDs are on the market already, and larger ones are just around the corner. It seems silly that one wouldn't be able to use the full disk size, especially on a "server" OS.

Well, my disk-size ambitions are more modest. I'm watching the market-offerings for 1TB and 1.5TB drives, but excluding movie-captures, the HBO "Rome" and "Deadwood" serials which I put on the back-burner for "burning," my personal files, Cold-War research and document-vault files for a local non-profit PAC consume at most 80 GB. These are files which go back to 1993, but I want to keep them. I don't want to just store them off-line.

So there are persistent files and volatile files, but I want "immediate access." The HighPoint RAID5 uses 3x160GB with available space of about 320GB. Even when I was using a P-3-750Mhz mobo-processor combination, access was very fast through the gigabit LAN. I'll keep the 3-drive array until one of them craps out, then buy some larger SATA drives and restore the data from the hot-swap backups.

Can anyone help with this?

Here are two sources for WHS I've found. I'm a little skittish and concerned about what I'm buying, because I've found sites that sell only the "CAL" license packs for other Windows Server implementations, and it would be easy for someone to make a mistake in selecting the product to order:

Directron

NewEgg, OEM for system builders

Mmmm . . . That's strange . . . . I found an entry earlier today for WHS for $150 at either Directron or NewEgg, and it's not there. I'm guessing that either one of these is the full licensed product, but hopefully with "PowerPack 1."

 

[RebateMonger]

There is only ONE version of Windows Home Server. It's an OEM version (in a sealed package) labelled "Windows Home Server". It will only allow ten computers to be associated with it, hence the "ten license" description. Well, you might find an older version that doesn't have Power Pack 1 integrated, but it really makes little difference. There are NO separate CALs available.

I've never heard of Newegg.com selling anything but legitimate software. Directron is probably the same, but I haven't purchased anything from them in several years.

Microsoft dropped its price for WHS several months ago. Newegg immediately dropped to $100, and has dropped a bit more since then. There's no need to pay any more.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Originally posted by: RebateMonger
There is only ONE version of Windows Home Server. It's an OEM version (in a sealed package) labelled "Windows Home Server". It will only allow ten computers to be associated with it, hence the "ten license" description. Well, you might find an older version that doesn't have Power Pack 1 integrated, but it really makes little difference. There are NO separate CALs available.

I've never heard of Newegg.com selling anything but legitimate software. Directron is probably the same, but I haven't purchased anything from them in several years.

Microsoft dropped its price for WHS several months ago. Newegg immediately dropped to $100, and has dropped a bit more since then. There's no need to pay any more.

Thanks. I already went ahead and ordered it from the Egg, only because they specified that the install disc includes "Power Pack 1."

Directron has always been a good source for parts and SW if you could find what you wanted, and their offerings are ample. I think they're very competitive with the Egg. Directron and AxionTech are one and the same -- HQ'ed in TX.

OFF the record, TX doesn't have a reciprocal arrangement with CA on sales taxes, so you might be able to trim some of the overall cost that way, provided shipping isn't more. But the Egg offers free shipping for many items. And ON the record, CA Franchise Tax Board has been very clear that taxpayers are responsible for declaring these sorts of untaxed, out-of-state purchases, although I don't know how they would be able to enforce it.

I only say this, because CA is so short on funds for this budget year that they will hold up refunds for people who deserve them. I got around that -- since I understated my W2 withholding and choose to pay four estimated tax payments annually -- having a rental property with fluctuating income. So I can credit the refund owed this year against the estimated tax payments for next year. A lot of people aren't so lucky. And if CA hasn't furloughed FTB employees, you'd think they'd do whatever it takes to get all taxes owed them. Just my guess on that. But still -- how would they manage to detect tax evasion on small, out-of-state purchases?

 

[Madwand1]

WHS likes to wipe all the drives when it installs. I suggest installing it on a single drive, and later adding the array without duplication enabled. Of course, you should also have a separate external backup.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Originally posted by: Madwand1
WHS likes to wipe all the drives when it installs. I suggest installing it on a single drive, and later adding the array without duplication enabled. Of course, you should also have a separate external backup.

THANKS, MADWAND1 !!

From what someone said earlier, I was thinking of doing it the other way around -- which didn't make sense to me, since the RAID5 and controller are "earlier technology."

The system also has a StarTech IDE Drive Drawer:

Hot Swap Drive Drawer

This is IDE technology, and I'm balking at buying another drive-caddy or two. The drives I'm using are each 250GB. StarTech makes a similar system in the SATA flavor. Then, of course, I have several USB drive boxes -- drives in the same size range. My data and files go back to 1993, and then there are "volatile data" backups from four machines in the house.

 

[VirtualLarry]

I found that link to get WHS to use GPT disks, btw.
link