Windows alternatives to Macbook Pro?

Oct 27, 2007
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I'm looking at getting a new laptop soon and I'm really disappointed in the selection of non-Apple products out there. I have never been an Apple user and I'm not interested in an Apple product, but I really dig what they're doing with the MBP. Is there a decent laptop out there that has a high quality display, nice solid (preferably not plastic) chassis, decent cooling and excellent battery life?

Right now it looks like I might have to go with an MBP and install Windows on it, but I'm put off by a couple of things - price, that stupid fucking magnetic plug and the fact that it's Apple. I don't mind spending a bit of money, but don't want to go crazy.

What I want:
- around 14-15"
- good display
- quality chassis
- great battery life

Less important:
- performance (has to be acceptable, but not amazing - I have a desktop for intensive tasks)
- trackpad (I use a mouse, always)
- aesthetics
- weight
- keyboard quality (I can type on anything)
 

CurseTheSky

Diamond Member
Oct 21, 2006
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The Envy 14 or Sony Vaio Z are the only things that really come close.

The Envy 14 is essentially a MBP 13 with better specs (better than the MBP 15 even), more expansion ports, and worse battery life. If you add on the optional slice battery, you should get 8-9 hours worth of battery life, though it does add extra (removable) thickness and weight.
 
Oct 27, 2007
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Holy shit those Vaio Z's are crazy expensive. I'll skip them, but the HP looks nice. Thanks, any more suggestions anyone?
 

ed21x

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 2001
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i'd take a look at the Acer 4820tg or the Asus UL80jt. The latter one should be exactly what you're looking for, as the system is pretty much all brushed aluminum. I have the 13" version of the Acer, and it is probably the lightest 13" full spec laptop on the market.

edit: http://usa.asus.com/product.aspx?P_ID=KtrJvpc9jBC956Le
 
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Oct 27, 2007
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That ASUS looks near perfect. You don't happen to know the difference between the UL80jt and UL80vt do you? The former doesn't seem to be available in my country while the latter is. Ordering from overseas isn't a big deal however.
 

Emulex

Diamond Member
Jan 28, 2001
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look at the quality of support first - who's going to fix it; how long will it take; how good is tech support (phone/chat/etc) - you might be surprised at how poor the choices for consumer windows is. apple support rivals top of the line business support (carepack) imo.
 

TheStu

Moderator<br>Mobile Devices & Gadgets
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Sep 15, 2004
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I have heard nothing but good things about the Envy 14. However, with regards to 'that stupid fucking magnetic plug', it is, for me, one of the greatest things about the intel Macs. Next to their superb trackpads of course. Snaps itself into place, pops out if you pull the cable (as an example from this morning, my roommate had his MBP in the kitchen, and the cable was on the ground in front of the fridge. When I opened the fridge door, it somehow caught on the cable and out popped the MagSafe.

If that had been my PowerBook, or any other laptop without the MagSafe, then it might have unplugged, but it would be just as likely that it would drag the laptop either slightly or to the ground. God forbid it then lands upon the power adapter, breaking both it and the port on the laptop. And considering that many consumer laptops that I have opened up don't have separate DC boards (unlike every Mac that I have opened as an example) it means that it is now a costly/difficult repair.

'That stupid fucking magnetic plug' is good and useful, and I have yet to hear anyone with an intel Mac say otherwise.
 

Zap

Elite Member
Oct 13, 1999
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I also think the magnetic plug is a great idea. It is also used on some kitchen appliances that get hot and hold liquid (deep fryers, water heaters).

The Sony Z series is expensive because of what it is: The most portable, lightest notebook with great battery life, great performance, great graphics and great screen. I wouldn't be surprised if the screen in it costs more than entire cheap notebooks.

Speaking of screen, the more affordable Asus notebooks may not have the best screens. That's one area where low cost (as in under $1000) notebooks severely cuts corners.

ASUS UL80Vt
About the only fly in the ointment with the UL80Vt is the LCD panel. Here you can see our contrast ratio test results, and the results are down in the dumps with many other laptops.

ASUS UL80Vt and G51J
While color accuracy is decent on both laptops, this is overshadowed by the washed out appearance. ASUS managed to provide an excellent 1100+:1 contrast on the Eee 1005HA, but the G51J and UL80Vt (and the G51Vx-A1) all have a contrast ratio down around 200:1. Yuck.

ASUS UL50Vf
This is your typical inexpensive LCD panel: 15.6 inches of low contrast, low color gamut, low resolution "goodness".

ASUS U30Jc
The test results above confirm our suspicions that this is yet another lousy laptop display (YALLD?). Contrast ratio is in the middle of the pack, but at 211:1 all of these displays are very poor.

ASUS U30Jc/U33Jc/U35Jc
Not to say that they&#8217;re flawless - the display quality is definitely something that could be improved (as with all mainstream notebooks)

I highlighted that for a reason. If you can put up with a mediocre display, then there are a number of stylish choices with great battery life. For a nice chassis, maybe check out the new Toshiba Portege? How about the HP Envy 14? Don't know what battery life is, but they've been accused of being a Mac clone.

You can also check out the Dell Adamo, Latitude 13 or Vostro v13 (all probably the same). Anandtech's review of the Adamo showed that the display is good in some areas and just as bad in others. The styling is pretty nice, though. I just picked up a Latitude 13 and it feels super solid. battery life is mediocre compared to the Asus U/UL series and Acer Timeline series at around 4 hours, but it is better than most "normal" notebooks.
 
Oct 27, 2007
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look at the quality of support first - who's going to fix it; how long will it take; how good is tech support (phone/chat/etc) - you might be surprised at how poor the choices for consumer windows is. apple support rivals top of the line business support (carepack) imo.
I'm not an idiot. Look at my priority list. Do you see support there? No, because it's not a priority. If you have nothing useful to contribute then go away.
However, with regards to 'that stupid fucking magnetic plug', it is, for me, one of the greatest things about the intel Macs. Next to their superb trackpads of course. Snaps itself into place, pops out if you pull the cable (as an example from this morning, my roommate had his MBP in the kitchen, and the cable was on the ground in front of the fridge. When I opened the fridge door, it somehow caught on the cable and out popped the MagSafe.

If that had been my PowerBook, or any other laptop without the MagSafe, then it might have unplugged, but it would be just as likely that it would drag the laptop either slightly or to the ground. God forbid it then lands upon the power adapter, breaking both it and the port on the laptop. And considering that many consumer laptops that I have opened up don't have separate DC boards (unlike every Mac that I have opened as an example) it means that it is now a costly/difficult repair.

'That stupid fucking magnetic plug' is good and useful, and I have yet to hear anyone with an intel Mac say otherwise.
I have used it and I don't like that stupid fucking plug. I don't like Apple. I have read your posts, I know you're an Apple fanboy and just couldn't help yourself from licking Jobs' balls in my thread, but please step in front of a bus. My OP could not have been clearer.
 
Oct 27, 2007
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... long post ...
Excellent post, thanks for that. I should clarify what I mean by "good display" I suppose. Colour accuracy isn't important because I do my photo editing on my desktop. A good laptop display to me is bright, good contrast, a quality coating and a decent viewing angle (not as important, but still a factor). I prefer matte displays but I'll look at anything.
 

CurseTheSky

Diamond Member
Oct 21, 2006
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Screen wise, I don't think anything beats the Envy 14's Radiance display. Not even a Macbook Pro. It's gorgeous.

Again, the biggest downside is the battery life. Expect about 4 hours on the standard battery, tops. Luckily they have an optional "slice" battery that attaches to the entire bottom of the notebook (making it thicker and heavier) which doubles the battery life. It can be easily removed and stored when you don't need it.

There are quite a few complaints about the Envy 14, but if you look around, there are plenty of complaints about the MBP as well. I owned an ASUS UL30A (essentially a UL30Vt without the switchable graphics) and there were tons of complaints about the wireless dropping out, keyboard flex, horrible screen, etc. - but overall, it was still a great notebook. No company is perfect, and I'd probably give the edge to Apple over HP, but you have to realize that people who sink close to $1000 into a laptop are going to be pissed if there's even one little quirk, and they'll complain loudly whenever they can. The bottom line is, if you want a Windows-based MBP, the Envy 14 is it. If you want something that shines in another area (such as battery life), one of ASUS' offerings will do well for you, but you're making sacrifices somewhere.
 
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Oct 27, 2007
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I really, really like the look of the Envy 14, it's looking like the top contender right now. The biggest problem is battery life: just so I'm clear, you can get a bigger battery for it (that "slice" thing, whatever that means) right? Can I reasonable expect to get around 6 hours of regular (non-gaming, non-video) use out of it with this extended battery?

Thanks for the advice so far, guys.
 

Zap

Elite Member
Oct 13, 1999
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Apparently it is an auxiliary 6-cell battery that attaches to the normal 8-cell battery. HP quotes the 8-cell at just under 4 hours, so sounds as if 6 hours with both is feasible.

If you are wanting 6 hours of battery, then the Dell Adamo/Latitude 13/Vostro v13 are out.

BTW, let's keep it civil in here, m'kay? This isn't the (anti)social forums. :p
 
Oct 27, 2007
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Looks like the Adamo and Latitude are not available in NZ. The Vostro V13 looks to have very poor battery life and a cheap plastic chassis (on the inside surfaces).
 

sheltem

Senior member
May 18, 2000
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I would take a look at the HP Elitebook's, which is HP's cream of the crop business laptops. With not a glossy surface or screen to be found, these laptops are built like a tank.

If graphics performance isn't too important to you, then the Elitebook 8440p sounds like a great fit. Here's a review, which also goes into detail about it's screen quality (viewing angles, contrast, etc.).

If you feel like splurging, you can step up to the 15" Elitebook 8540w, which has the the Dreamcolor 2 option, a 10-bit IPS panel!

The HP Envy's are nice and are a good value when combined with coupons, but their QC is garbage and their customer service is even worse. I briefly had an Envy 15 and the standoffs between the screen and laptop chassis were not glued on properly. Weak...

And there are plenty of threads on notebookreview.com complaining about warranty repair sending back damaged laptops!
 

TheStu

Moderator<br>Mobile Devices & Gadgets
Moderator
Sep 15, 2004
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I'm not an idiot. Look at my priority list. Do you see support there? No, because it's not a priority. If you have nothing useful to contribute then go away.

I have used it and I don't like that stupid fucking plug. I don't like Apple. I have read your posts, I know you're an Apple fanboy and just couldn't help yourself from licking Jobs' balls in my thread, but please step in front of a bus. My OP could not have been clearer.

You don't have to be a jackass all the time you know.

I said get the Envy 14. I then said that no one I know, with an intel Mac, dislikes the MagSafe and it has advantages. I don't give a flip if you don't like Apple, or if you think that Jobs is the devil, I couldn't care less what some foul mouthed poster has to say about anything. But since you aren't the center of any universe, certainly not the AT one, perhaps a differing opinion about the adapter can't hurt.

And, if you can refrain from spouting off profanity, and form a rational thought without personal insults, could you enlighten us as to why you don't like the plug? It is a plug, it plugs in, it charges, it lights up subtly when it is charging/charged. The only fault that I can see is that it unplugs a little too easily, but that is what it is designed to do.
 

erikistired

Diamond Member
Sep 27, 2000
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You don't have to be a jackass all the time you know.

I said get the Envy 14. I then said that no one I know, with an intel Mac, dislikes the MagSafe and it has advantages. I don't give a flip if you don't like Apple, or if you think that Jobs is the devil, I couldn't care less what some foul mouthed poster has to say about anything. But since you aren't the center of any universe, certainly not the AT one, perhaps a differing opinion about the adapter can't hurt.

And, if you can refrain from spouting off profanity, and form a rational thought without personal insults, could you enlighten us as to why you don't like the plug? It is a plug, it plugs in, it charges, it lights up subtly when it is charging/charged. The only fault that I can see is that it unplugs a little too easily, but that is what it is designed to do.

haters gonna hate. that's all you can say.

the plug is probably the best thing apple has done in quite awhile. i guarantee you if apple wasn't holding a patent on it every laptop manufacturer would be using it.
 

CurseTheSky

Diamond Member
Oct 21, 2006
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The Envy slice battery is a auxiliary battery that attaches via a connector to the bottom of the notebook. It sits flush to the bottom, and essentially just makes the notebook thicker / heavier. While attached, both batteries charge and are used simultaneously (from what I've read). You can remove it at any time and use the normal internal battery as usual.

Though the internal battery is an 8 cell and the external is a 6 cell, their WHr ratings are similar, so the slice battery will roughly double the total battery life. The only down side is the added bulk and weight, but again, you can just carrying it around when you NEED the extra battery life, and leave it home when you don't.
 

vbuggy

Golden Member
Nov 13, 2005
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I really, really like the look of the Envy 14, it's looking like the top contender right now. The biggest problem is battery life: just so I'm clear, you can get a bigger battery for it (that "slice" thing, whatever that means) right? Can I reasonable expect to get around 6 hours of regular (non-gaming, non-video) use out of it with this extended battery?

Thanks for the advice so far, guys.

Also - Don't also read too much into the Mac's battery life. It's amazing how much Apple fanbois artificially inflate their runtimes - it's like those school playground fibs. When the unibody 13-inchers with the replaceable batteries first came out, Mactard boards were rife with stories of 6-hour runtimes for example out of the '5-hour' battery. Never got more than 4 with extremely aggressive power saving myself in real life. Similarly, I get a tad over 4 hours in Windows (not that I Boot Camp my Apples that often) out of my '8-9 hour' battery, and 6 - due wholly to the better GPU handling in the native OS - is good going in OS X.

As I'm finding out, all things being equal in terms of the base hardware and battery capacities, you can expect a claimed vs real runtime disparity of about 1.3~1.4 (i.e. Apple will claim around 1.3~1.4 times more runtime than a runtime-focused Windows maker such as Lenovo or Sony out of the same hardware) in the respective OS's. Due to driver issues you'll be more likely to experience worse runtime, even given the same battery, on a Boot Camped machine vs a 'real' Windows machine.

There are machines which are better built than the MBP, there are machines which are better specified for the money, but the Envy 14 remains the only one which looks in the same ballpark and offers somewhat more bang for the buck. I don't think Apples are badly priced, especially if you factor in the design aspect, but there is a large element of hype where it counts - regarding the durability of the unit, the reliability of the unit, the myth of Apple service (which I guessis great for people who've only owned crud before) and in terms of how they interpret the runtime, among many other aspects.

Personally, if you want a solid, no-fuss machine which is good value I'd look at the Elitebooks from HP. You'll need to dig around more for the spec you like, but some excellent combos are possible.

I know you dismissed the Sony due to the price but I can also vouch highly for the current Z's - I was deeply unhappy with the late-08 Z's which had some build quality and case issues, but it's been solved with the present version and I happen to believe it is worth the money. What you get is basically a slightly gimped, shrunk Macbook Pro which weighs the same as the Air - and is more durable in actual use. Several months after getting my first Z11, they're still extremely impressive and useful machines for me.
 
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Oct 27, 2007
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You don't have to be a jackass all the time you know.

I said get the Envy 14. I then said that no one I know, with an intel Mac, dislikes the MagSafe and it has advantages. I don't give a flip if you don't like Apple, or if you think that Jobs is the devil, I couldn't care less what some foul mouthed poster has to say about anything. But since you aren't the center of any universe, certainly not the AT one, perhaps a differing opinion about the adapter can't hurt.

And, if you can refrain from spouting off profanity, and form a rational thought without personal insults, could you enlighten us as to why you don't like the plug? It is a plug, it plugs in, it charges, it lights up subtly when it is charging/charged. The only fault that I can see is that it unplugs a little too easily, but that is what it is designed to do.

I have used the MagSafe plug and I hate it. It falls out if I so much as look at the computer wrong. I don't need a plug that won't stay attached if I sneeze in the wrong direction. Your Applecentric opinion is neither necessary or solicited in this thread. This isn't a discussion on the virtues of Apple computers, this is a thread asking for advice on non-Apple computers.

Shouldn't you be updating your Steve Jobs scrapbook? Go away. I'm being serious. Leave this thread and don't come back. There is no need for your to respond to this thread. Your opinion is not required.
 
Oct 27, 2007
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I know you dismissed the Sony due to the price but I can also vouch highly for the current Z's - I was deeply unhappy with the late-08 Z's which had some build quality and case issues, but it's been solved with the present version and I happen to believe it is worth the money. What you get is basically a slightly gimped, shrunk Macbook Pro which weighs the same as the Air - and is more durable in actual use. Several months after getting my first Z11, they're still extremely impressive and useful machines for me.
I have no doubt they are excellent computers, but the price is simply too high for me unfortunately.
 

Zap

Elite Member
Oct 13, 1999
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the plug is probably the best thing apple has done in quite awhile. i guarantee you if apple wasn't holding a patent on it every laptop manufacturer would be using it.

Do they really hold a patent on it? Like I said, I've seen magnetic plugs on small kitchen appliances.

The Envy slice battery...

Thanks for the explanation. Seems like a nice add-on to have.

Also - Don't also read too much into the Mac's battery life.
...
Due to driver issues you'll be more likely to experience worse runtime, even given the same battery, on a Boot Camped machine vs a 'real' Windows machine.

That is probably true because I think I've seen reviewers mention experiencing lower battery life when using Windows.
 

erikistired

Diamond Member
Sep 27, 2000
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Do they really hold a patent on it? Like I said, I've seen magnetic plugs on small kitchen appliances.

i can't imagine they don't. they hold a patent on everything else they do. and if not, why haven't we seen one on any other laptop? it's a great feature, i would love to have it on my dell laptops. it might simply be in relation to computing devices?

http://www.macnn.com/blogs/2007/03/29/apple-files-for-magsafe-patent-more.html

I have used the MagSafe plug and I hate it. It falls out if I so much as look at the computer wrong. I don't need a plug that won't stay attached if I sneeze in the wrong direction. Your Applecentric opinion is neither necessary or solicited in this thread. This isn't a discussion on the virtues of Apple computers, this is a thread asking for advice on non-Apple computers.

Shouldn't you be updating your Steve Jobs scrapbook? Go away. I'm being serious. Leave this thread and don't come back. There is no need for your to respond to this thread. Your opinion is not required.

sucks you had that problem. the one on my macbook pro could have stood to be a little looser.

also, you do realize you're talking to a mod right? this isn't off topic, being a jackass to people is less tolerated in the technical parts of the forums.

Looks like the Adamo and Latitude are not available in NZ. The Vostro V13 looks to have very poor battery life and a cheap plastic chassis (on the inside surfaces).

i looked at the vostro v13 while notebook shopping. i liked the looks, but it was only offered with the 32 bit version of windows 7 (and 4gb of ram) and the battery life wasn't so great in the reviews. last time i looked the adamo was on the pricey side, but it's not offered there anyway.
 
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oogabooga

Diamond Member
Jan 14, 2003
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Do they really hold a patent on it? Like I said, I've seen magnetic plugs on small kitchen appliances.

That is probably true because I think I've seen reviewers mention experiencing lower battery life when using Windows.

I don't know if they have a patent on any and all magnetic type connectors, but they certainly do on their specific ones, they're suing Sanyo for using it for their hypermac batteries.

I think several reviews have pointed out that running windows on the MBP will reduce battery life. I'm pretty sure I've read it on AT but it's not in the last refresh review for the MBP13.

That said : I believe the battery numbers are "relatively" accurate. Light web+iTunes browsing at 50% display got 9+ hours. This is like reading one website/text editing I think. If you prefer a brighter display you'll obviously get less, but not 2 hours vs the 9 advertised.
The multi-tasking test got 3.5 hours which considering it's Xvid playing with multiple flash ads in multiple safari windows at the same time is respectable.
 

ed21x

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 2001
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