Windows 8.1 your opinion

[crashtestdummy]

I think the best way to describe Windows 8.1 is confused. Microsoft wanted to have a unified interface for both tablets and desktops, but what they really did was create two UI languages awkwardly patched together by the start screen. The desktop environment (except for the start menu) is still largely the same as it ever was. There are actually some relatively nice tweaks that make it better (cf Windows Explorer).

Metro actually works quite well as a tablet interface in isolation. It's smooth, responsive, and it scales resolution much better than most systems. The swipe gestures from the sides, once you know they're there, are quite intuitive and have a satisfying tactile flair that Android (IMO) lacks.

The problems arise in the merger of these two systems at the Start/Apps Screen. The Start Screen first off defaults to the Metro interface, which leaves the desktop users frustrated (cf the thousands of threads and news stories around the web complaining). It would have been so easy to add the old start menu in as a "classic mode", which would have allowed users to wean themselves off of it over the next few years until the next version came out. It would have saved an enormous amount of pain, but it would have conflicted with Microsoft's long-term strategy (more on that in a bit).

The start screen, though, isn't a perfect solution for the Metro interface either. On Windows Phone 8 (a more pure implementation of Metro), you have the Start Screen and an "all apps" page, with a straight list of all installed software, easily browsable by first letter. On Windows 8, however, the all apps page inherits the file structure of the start menu, and desktop apps retain the extra icons and such that you're used to with Windows 7. This was ok when you had a directory tree with folders, but when you have a single screen displaying everything at once, it gets quite messy. Furthermore, while you can easily split the screen between multiple Metro programs, you inexplicably can't have one of those be the Start Screen itself.

All of this is further complicated by the fact that the desktop side of the (x86) operating system is as open* as ever, while the Metro side is closed (you can only buy Metro apps from Microsoft). Microsoft's strategy is that they want to compete with iOS as a closed tablet system where they get a 30% cut on everything sold. Ignoring for the moment that this goes against what made them a successful company to begin with (they were more open and widely available than MacOS or OS/2), it's an impossible business model while having an open platform on the same device. The only difference between making a touch-enabled, full screen desktop program and a Metro app is the ability to split your screen and API availability. If I were a developer, I'd see little incentive to make something specifically for Metro. My guess is that they plan to drop the desktop environment altogether in some future version of Windows, but I'm not sure they quite yet realize how disastrous that will be for them if they do so.

If I were them, here is what I would do: Merge Windows RT and Windows Phone 8, with the UI structure looking a lot more like WP8. I think it works better than the hybrid desktop/touch mess they currently have going on the tablets. Make a similar OS available for x86 Bay Trail chips, call it "Windows for Tablets", and sell it at the same price you sell RT and WP8. The version you sell for desktops and laptops (and you could pay extra for to put on a Bay Trail device) will still have both environments, but they'll be completely separate: desktop mode will have a start menu, and Metro mode will have a start screen. You could even give the option of an autodetect for convertibles.


*Note here that I define "open" as possible to distribute software independently of Microsoft, not Open Source. I apologize for the confusion, but it was the simplest terminology I could come up with.

TL,DR:

• Microsoft has made separate touch and desktop interfaces, doesn't know how to merge them.
• I suggest separating them more completely.

 

[Raduque]

I suppose this opinion makes me an Odd Man Out, but I actually, if not actually like it, don't really have any problems with it (of course, I liked Vista too, and actually couldn't drop Windows XP fast enough. I only upgraded to Windows 7 earlier this year).

In any case I bought a new laptop last month, a non-touch Toshiba with Windows 8. I fumbled around for a bit while WU ran, then I did the 8.1 upgrade. Figured out how to turn off hot corners and how to use the gestures on the trackpad for the Charms and Multitasking bars, and it's been smooth sailing since.

I think I'm going to upgrade to W8 on my desktop after I finish building it, because I find myself missing things that come with W8 like the Calendar, Weather and Email apps.

Now, if you can just use the built-in webcam to control the Start menu like the Kinect does on the 360, I'd be golden. :awe:

Edit: I also love the task manager and file copy dialog of W8. They're miles better than the W7 ones.

 

[crashtestdummy]

I suppose this opinion makes me an Odd Man Out, but I actually, if not actually like it, don't really have any problems with it (of course, I liked Vista too, and actually couldn't drop Windows XP fast enough. I only upgraded to Windows 7 earlier this year).

In any case I bought a new laptop last month, a non-touch Toshiba with Windows 8. I fumbled around for a bit while WU ran, then I did the 8.1 upgrade. Figured out how to turn off hot corners and how to use the gestures on the trackpad for the Charms and Multitasking bars, and it's been smooth sailing since.

I think I'm going to upgrade to W8 on my desktop after I finish building it, because I find myself missing things that come with W8 like the Calendar, Weather and Email apps.

Now, if you can just use the built-in webcam to control the Start menu like the Kinect does on the 360, I'd be golden. :awe:

Edit: I also love the task manager and file copy dialog of W8. They're miles better than the W7 ones.

I have a convertible laptop that I frequently use plugged in to a larger monitor along with a mouse and keyboard. My solution, because I still want the Metro stuff readily available, is to have Rocketdock autohide on the side of the desktop. That way, I'm able to almost completely avoid the metro screen when using a mouse, but I'm unencumbered in tablet mode as well.

 

[Mushkins]

I've got a laptop with Windows 8 on it, genuinely giving it a shot. It's confusing and convoluted, but still mostly usable.

That being said, i'm steering *far* away from 8.1 for the time being. There are way too many compatibility issues with it being reported, and not many vendors are stepping up and fixing them in any rush. Don't really see any worthwhile benefits to updating yet and plenty of headaches.

 

[Teizo]

After installing Start8 and using the 'Remove Ribbon' patch which gives you the ribbon from Win 7, I can honestly say that Win 8.1 is better than Win 7 in every way. It is basically Win 7, but improved. Other than the fact that Win 7 is a solid OS, the GUI and desktop experience are very good. But, after those two tweaks, Win 8.1 looks like 7, but performs better.

I do miss Aero, but I can live with the GUI coloring scheme alright.


It does appear in Win 8.2 that the full start menu is coming back though, which is good.

http://www.guru3d.com/news_story/full_start_menu_with_windows_8_2.html

 

[Childs]

After installing Start8 and using the 'Remove Ribbon' patch which gives you the ribbon from Win 7, I can honestly say that Win 8.1 is better than Win 7 in every way. It is basically Win 7, but improved. Other than the fact that Win 7 is a solid OS, the GUI and desktop experience are very good. But, after those two tweaks, Win 8.1 looks like 7, but performs better.

I do miss Aero, but I can live with the GUI coloring scheme alright.


It does appear in Win 8.2 that the full start menu is coming back though, which is good.

http://www.guru3d.com/news_story/full_start_menu_with_windows_8_2.html

Is this a paid upgrade or free like 8.1? If it costs money I'll stick with 8.1!

 

[Tom]

So the plan is to introduce an OS that works with keyboards and mice in 2015 ?

 

[ThatsABigOne]

I used 8.1 for a day and really liked it. Really tempted to update from 7 to 8.1 as I can do it for free.

 

[Teizo]

Is this a paid upgrade or free like 8.1? If it costs money I'll stick with 8.1!

Start8 is $4 and the remove ribbon patch is free. $4 ain't gonna break nobody for Start8. It's the best program out there, really.

Start8 is from Stardock:

http://www.stardock.com/products/start8/

Remove ribbon patch is here:

http://www.tomsguide.com/us/download/Ribbon-Disabler-for-Windows-8,0301-50003.html

After installing both of these, you basically have an improved version of Win 7.

 

[Childs]

Start8 is $4 and the remove ribbon patch is free. $4 ain't gonna break nobody for Start8. It's the best program out there, really.

Start8 is from Stardock:

http://www.stardock.com/products/start8/

Remove ribbon patch is here:

http://www.tomsguide.com/us/download/Ribbon-Disabler-for-Windows-8,0301-50003.html

After installing both of these, you basically have an improved version of Win 7.

I was referring to 8.2. If its $100+ or whatever Windows 8 costs now, I can live with classic shell on 8.1.

 

[Imaginer]

I think the best way to describe Windows 8.1 is confused. Microsoft wanted to have a unified interface for both tablets and desktops, but what they really did was create two UI languages awkwardly patched together by the start screen. The desktop environment (except for the start menu) is still largely the same as it ever was. There are actually some relatively nice tweaks that make it better (cf Windows Explorer).

It does feel there are two worlds, but it works. It actually works enough. Sometimes, I have a Modern/Metro IE session on a smaller slice of the screen, desktop or other primary working area on the other. I can solely work in desktop (as I have on my desktop PCs) but this hybrid dual approach really shines on the "newer" definition of tablet PC and touch screen capable hybrid devices.

As I said many times, the Start screen is really for me a revealed desktop showing my icons I have used and accessed anyways. They in 8 and 8.1 are even more organized, not just by the icon logo and name, but also by tile size and tile groupings. The Start screen also has "widget" like function in live tiles, but they aren't always shown, just a quick glance when I need with a Windows key, or start icon click.

Metro actually works quite well as a tablet interface in isolation. It's smooth, responsive, and it scales resolution much better than most systems. The swipe gestures from the sides, once you know they're there, are quite intuitive and have a satisfying tactile flair that Android (IMO) lacks.

And works in tablet use it does. Content is shown with no UI interfering and taking up screen resolution space since menus aren't actively in use, it doesn't need to be always shown. That is one thing I like the Modern/Metro UI approach. This leaves a more "uncluttered" interface, where I am solely focused on what I am viewing and doing, than just having things in the way.

The on screen keyboard options (this is using the Surface Pro and Pro 2) are greatly appreciated. From the on screen keyboard that started it all (iPad like layout) to my preferred on screen keyboard which is the split thumb typing and number pad in the middle, to the third option of good handwriting recognition input. A fourth on screen keyboard exists that gives a more traditional hardware keyboard layout, but needs to be enabled in the Modern/Metro PC settings.

The problems arise in the merger of these two systems at the Start/Apps Screen. The Start Screen first off defaults to the Metro interface, which leaves the desktop users frustrated (cf the thousands of threads and news stories around the web complaining). It would have been so easy to add the old start menu in as a "classic mode", which would have allowed users to wean themselves off of it over the next few years until the next version came out. It would have saved an enormous amount of pain, but it would have conflicted with Microsoft's long-term strategy (more on that in a bit).

It would be just as easy to have a more robust tutorial for first time accounts (local or Microsoft accounts otherwise) to show how things changed. But with the supposed 8.2, users will finally be able to (in my opinion) hold to the old.

Call it what you will, the Start screen is the start screen, metro look or not. It is maximizing the menu viewing area for something that would have garner your focus anyways (even with the Start menu, your eyes gaze at the corner where you stationed your Start button). Both offer text input and search, one just negates the manual clicking of the search text field.

Also another jarring change is that it does boot to the Start screen, leaving users confused as to where the desktop is. But most users will click the Start menu ANYWAYS to start running programs. The Start screen startup in a way eliminates a step. It maybe another complaint that users are wondering where did all of their desktop icons go to launch things too.

It would help if the default installation had the desktop tile much bigger than the others, with a small preview of their desktop with their icons.

The start screen, though, isn't a perfect solution for the Metro interface either. On Windows Phone 8 (a more pure implementation of Metro), you have the Start Screen and an "all apps" page, with a straight list of all installed software, easily browsable by first letter. On Windows 8, however, the all apps page inherits the file structure of the start menu, and desktop apps retain the extra icons and such that you're used to with Windows 7. This was ok when you had a directory tree with folders, but when you have a single screen displaying everything at once, it gets quite messy. Furthermore, while you can easily split the screen between multiple Metro programs, you inexplicably can't have one of those be the Start Screen itself.

There is no way around it. By having a desktop menu in the past showing "all programs" you have to include what those installers put in the Start menu, and Start screen by extension. I would find it better if each of the program folders of each program are colored differently and program folder names of the Start screen in a more discerning font size and color that does not blend with the default scheme (a slight change of hue maybe) to further separate organization. But revealing "all programs" is no different than the Start menu.

There is indeed more mouse movement though and pity on those that do rely on a drag and lift mouse and haven't fine tuned acceleration settings, never mind those WITHOUT a scroll wheel in this day and age. The last sentence I wrote is probably in my opinion why most people hate 8's paradigm of a Start screen. More effort to casually browse all programs installed.

It did not phase me as a desktop 8.1 user. With a trackball (which I will praise and vouch for not stressing my wrists and not needing space or a nice surface to drag) I can zip a mouse pointer as fast or precise and slow at a whim anywhere which makes any navigation of a full screen not as painful. Full maximized windows or Start screen otherwise.

All of this is further complicated by the fact that the desktop side of the (x86) operating system is as open* as ever, while the Metro side is closed (you can only buy Metro apps from Microsoft). Microsoft's strategy is that they want to compete with iOS as a closed tablet system where they get a 30% cut on everything sold. Ignoring for the moment that this goes against what made them a successful company to begin with (they were more open and widely available than MacOS or OS/2), it's an impossible business model while having an open platform on the same device. The only difference between making a touch-enabled, full screen desktop program and a Metro app is the ability to split your screen and API availability. If I were a developer, I'd see little incentive to make something specifically for Metro. My guess is that they plan to drop the desktop environment altogether in some future version of Windows, but I'm not sure they quite yet realize how disastrous that will be for them if they do so.

The minute the desktop goes away, the minute I stay with my current Windows. I am not going to any extremes in OS switching (many invested programs and heavy hitters as well as light hitters). It would be a VERY VERY FOOLISH move to ditch desktop anything.

The Windows store being closed is to keep the "malware" issues and loading of such away from that environment on the RT end, and by extension on the regular Windows end. Would you also like to have a touch screen app version of User Access Control? People are fed up by this warning mechanism. Microsoft decided to cut that out with a more controlled store front. It isn't about the 30% cut of anything, it is more or less what I said.

Granted, I seldom have any use of Modern/Metro apps on a pure desktop PC. Most apps, in my opinion are glorified web portals. On my Surface Pro 2, I see use in some of them. Namely, Modern/Metro IE is enough to make me use it dominantly on my Surface Pro 2, forgoing desktop browsing. I find myself exploring others as well, including a customized to my liking News and Weather app.

But still, I rarely go out into the Store to find new software to load, since between my loads of desktop software and internet browsing use, everything I need is there.

If I were them, here is what I would do: Merge Windows RT and Windows Phone 8, with the UI structure looking a lot more like WP8. I think it works better than the hybrid desktop/touch mess they currently have going on the tablets. Make a similar OS available for x86 Bay Trail chips, call it "Windows for Tablets", and sell it at the same price you sell RT and WP8. The version you sell for desktops and laptops (and you could pay extra for to put on a Bay Trail device) will still have both environments, but they'll be completely separate: desktop mode will have a start menu, and Metro mode will have a start screen. You could even give the option of an autodetect for convertibles.

I rather not go back to a Start menu, either on a pure desktop PC or a new tablet PC / hybrid / convertible. The 8.1 approach is better and I would like to see a more fuller tutorial included. I am sorry for those, especially those that invested in gaming drag and lift mice, that can't see what I see what good is there in 8.

And I do emphasize the hatred of 8 in correlation to lift and drag mice, and even worse on wonky touchpads of laptops that do not have touch screens. Those two peripheral interfaces aren't anyway ideal for 8, and sadly are predominant on PCs of old and even new.

Another note on why I went trackball, it was when I wanted to connect my PC to my HDTV, and seeing the resolution of HDTV (1080p) finally made it possible. But it was awkward finding a suitable surface for my laser mouse that my Logitech diNovo combo sported. I used the Trackman Wireless Mouse for a bit, but most trackball users agreed it had a bulky receiver.

Which is why I am fully glad and immediately jumped on the newest Trackman, M570. Doubly so as it became not only my pointing device on my HTPC, but also on the go on my laptop, now with my Surface Pro 2 when desired and needed.

TL,DR:

• Microsoft has made separate touch and desktop interfaces, doesn't know how to merge them.
• I suggest separating them more completely.

It was the best they could have done, given market pressure, time of release, redefining what one of the ways a Tablet PC can be with Surface models (remember those swivel hinges that made things awkward?). There isn't a one size fit all.

8.2 will come closer to doing that one size fit all, by adding back what many missed, the traditional Start menu layout for shorter lift and drag mousing (and scrolling of the all programs list).

8.1 fixes a lot of my internal complaints, namely it is nice to right click the start icon (or Windows key and X) for power settings options and both a command prompt and command prompt admin mode. It gave more tile size settings, which made unique organization better along with naming of tile groupings. It also fixed the two size snapping screen app option to offer a variety of snapping options (pending app support for each resize). It also provided a more varying scaling level - though I kept things at 125%.

8.1 also improved on searching. The Charms search button is no longer dependent on the active app or desktop being active. It can search everything by default (local and web encompassing). It can be filtered just for files, programs, etc.

Things still wonky and disconnect-y of 8.1 are user management. To add users, the Control Panel will direct you to the Users section of the Modern/Metro PC Settings. Same with Bluetooth devices and wireless display addings - with less ways to check the properties of said devices - unless after it was added one goes back into classic Device Manager to get the details.

Wireless information of routers and networks at a glance does not give anything, it just directs you to the "Charms" Wireless list settings and connecting and disconnecting, with either no right click for properties or a hold of the touch point for that right click for properties.

Modern/Metro IE solved the "hidden and reveal by mouse over" menu options some websites use. To permanently reveal the drop down menus, hold the main menu drop down with a touch for a bit. This is not a problem with a traditional mouse/trackball as mouse-overs are still viable. Meta text such as XKCD's comic are also solved in this manner too.

The ribbon in File Explorer shows up by default. But you can permanently hide this by the drop down arrow near the minimize, maximize, and close button. Any new File Explorer window opened will reflect this change. That is a welcome change from 7. No third party tools needed.

But my main reason for not liking 8.1 in full yet, is the segregated "PC Settings" and Control Panel approach. PC Settings feels limited by far. Control Panel needs to be less "text hyperlinky". I am also not on board with Blu-Ray playback being eliminated going from Windows 7 Professional to 8 (and 8.1 still) Pro. If any third party tools I needed to restore function, it was one that gave me Blu-Ray back (despite snagging the free Windows Media Center option for the limited time - ALSO another slight annoyance), no Start8 or other things that is UI related, no it is optical media usability - but Windows 8 and 8.1 took one forward by adding native ISO image mounting... Consolation prize?

TL: DR

Overall, 8.1 and after using and well liking to having it with me on the go Surface Pro (and Pro 2) is sitting well in my book. I like the dual paradigms, things like Control Panel and PC Settings need not clash and be more finessed. I operate on desktop and not need Modern/Metro on a pure desktop, greatly appreciate the Modern/Metro on a tablet PC interface.

Bonus, CADing on the Surface Pro will let me pinch zoom and drawing programs will allow me to rotate, move, and work the canvas and pinch zoom too. Even better with the Fijitsu Lifebook Pen with TWO side buttons instead of one.

 

[Patre]

I would've loved to give a positive review on 8.1, but on installation, it played havoc on the iGPU drivers. It practically brought my system to a halt as I could not get into Windows.
I Googled this issue and it seems like there's a lot of people experiencing this as well as a work in progress with Intel's driver/Microsoft's OS. No matter all the things I tried, I just couldn't get into Win. Only a clean install of Win 8 allowed me to get back in.

Although many have found it working well, I believe 8.1 is still an unfinished product.

 

[Teizo]

I was referring to 8.2. If its $100+ or whatever Windows 8 costs now, I can live with classic shell on 8.1.

Oh, my bad. I forgot I even linked that lol. I imagine it is just going to be another Service Pack. But, rather than call it that it will just be called an updated/new version and free for everyone with 8.1.

 

[trillock]

I bought Win 8 when on offer for £25 from MS and also got a free key for WMC to install it, but rarely use it.............I only installed it because it was free. :biggrin:

I didn't much like W8, and the preview version of 8.1, so I waited until the full version came out, and now I rather like it.
To have things how I like it, I installed the free Classic Shell.

Now, I have Vista Ult., Win 7 and Win8.1 on seperate HDD's, plus a HDD for storage, and another to put backups/system images on.

Now and again when booting Win 8.1 it will go into the 'CHKDSK' routine which can sometimes take ages as it seems to be deleting files and then restoring files, which I find rather annoying.

But apart from that, it is far better than the original versions, which is what I hoped would happen.

Now, I belong to the small club of people who actuallly like Vista, because it boots up and restarts/shuts down quickly, and I think slightly quicker than win 8.1. :biggrin:
It plays all my games from UT99 - BF3 (although I have got bored with that as it is online only) and in day to day use does not give me grief.

Win 7 is ok, but rarely used (apart from booting up to update etc.) so I generally use Vista/Win 8.1, and Win 8.1 can sometimes be a little troublesome....for me anyway.

Overall though I like it............and I also like Vista, and cannot quite figure out the hate of it, since it works perfectly for me...()