windows 8.1 defragged my SSD?

[itsdenn]

I have a sandisk 120 gb ultra II ssd for a few days now and I tunred off automatic drive defragmentation but when I wanted to defrag my hdd today I noticed windows saying that I it has defragged my ssd without my knowledge.
Now after running the "Get-EventLog -LogName Application -Source "microsoft-windows-defrag" | sort timegenerated -desc | fl timegenerated, message" command in powershell I noticed it saying the same thing.

Is this something I should be worried about? Or does it simply say defrag but its actually just optimizing it in a way that is acceptable for an SSD?

EDIT: http://www.outsidethebox.ms/why-windows-8-defragments-your-ssd-and-how-you-can-avoid-this/ this helped me and the first picture shows now that my pc is only running retrim
Thanks to SSBrain for helping me.

 

[Virgorising]

I am confused. First, your OS should have disabled defrag when you installed the SDD. And that is important, given conventional defragging only hurts SSDs.

Next, it appears from yr screenies, defragging is, in fact, properly disabled. Why do you think otherwise? Re the SSD, it says 0 days since last run. Meaning, defrag has never been run, right?"

 

[razel]

0 days since last run means it just ran recently. Window's 8+ defrag isn't an HDD defragment for SSDs. If you click on 'Optimize' it will issue the TRIM command and you'll see it say so, if you catch it fast enough.

 

[Virgorising]

0 days since last run means it just ran recently. Window's 8+ defrag isn't an HDD defragment for SSDs. If you click on 'Optimize' it will issue the TRIM command and you'll see it say so, if you catch it fast enough.

K on what U suggest 0 days means, tho I am still not convinced. But re W7 and W8, again, upon proper installation of an SSD, TRIM is engaged assuming the drive supports it, and normal Defragging is disabled.

As of now, there is no optimization beyond supporting TRIM---all you really need, tho I augment---in either W7 or 8. None.

So, you can see why I remain confused.

 

[Virgorising]

Hold the presses!!! I just delved and learned sumthin I did not know (I run
W7):

https://social.technet.microsoft.co...4-9cf5-437d5e212c9c/defragging-ssds-a-default

It does, in fact appear, there is some TRIM AUGMENTING THINGY in W8!!! Amazing. I had no clue. Use the link! You are not hallucinating, cept it seems this new cutie is in no way conventional defragging of the sort only proper for mechanical drives.

It may even be something akin to what I have set my Perfect Disk to do with my Crucial SSD....tho I keep my mechanical backup drive set to optimize for mechanical drives.

 

[itsdenn]

Well I disabled my automatic scheduling but that resulted In windows doing it by itself, so what I did now is turn it on but excluding my c drive I hope that will work out just fine. I have read on other sites that when windows says it defragged an ssd they mean optimized and actually run TRIM commands, but I personally doubt that that is the cause because the powershell screenshot I made shows that my pc ran TRIM commands AND defrag commands on my ssd. I hope turning the automatic scheduling on and excluding my ssd fixes the problem.

 

[DominionSeraph]

What's the issue? It looks to be TRIMing the drive once a day.

 

[itsdenn]

But it also says its defragging it once a day

 

[Virgorising]

But it also says its defragging it once a day

But this version of defragging an SSD in W8....is not the usual defragging as per a mechanical drive. As per wut I found and linked to when I delved. Is the choice of word unfortunate? Yes! They should have called it SSD optimize, given wut we associate "defrag" with.

I do not blame you for yr concern.....I have other paranoias...now abating because of brilliant data share here. But, in your case, I think there is no cause to worry. Were you I would delve more on the interwebs to find more articles related to the one I found.

 

[SSBrain]

Yes. It is defragging the SSD. It's a known problem with the scheduled optimization which Microsoft still won't acknowledge nor look into. It happens in Windows 10 Technical Preview too.

Read this: http://www.outsidethebox.ms/why-windows-8-defragments-your-ssd-and-how-you-can-avoid-this/

And yes, it is indeed defragging the SSD, before somebody says it's just a mislabeling issue.

 

[Virgorising]

Yes. It is defragging the SSD. It's a known problem with the scheduled optimization which Microsoft still won't acknowledge nor look into. It happens in Windows 10 Technical Preview too.

Read this: http://www.outsidethebox.ms/why-windows-8-defragments-your-ssd-and-how-you-can-avoid-this/

Did U use the link I put in #5? It truly does suggest what this function in 8 is doing is SSD optimizing and not the conventional defragging which shortens the life of solid state drives.

 

[SSBrain]

Did U use the link I put in $5? It truly does suggest what this function in 8 is doing is SSD optimizing and not the conventional defragging which shortens the life of solid state drives.

Those who say so have no idea what they're talking about and spouting out canned answers.

Given that:
- SSD load remains pegged at 100% for a prolonged amount of time when this happens;
- The drive reports continuous writes in the several tens to hundreds of MB/s range for said time;
- When the defrag operation finishes, SSD host writes increase by several tens GBs;
- The optimization tool reports that defragmentation and consolidation passes are being performed;
- The Windows Event Log for the defrag service is reporting that a "defragmentation" has been performed instead of a "retrim";

I would say with very strong certainty that it is defragging the SSD. The link I proposed in my latest comment explains in detail when it happens and how to circumvent the issue.

 

[Virgorising]

Those who say so have no idea what they're talking about and spouting out canned answers.

Given that:
- SSD load remains pegged at 100% for a prolonged amount of time when this happens;
- The drive reports continuous writes in the several tens to hundreds of MB/s range for said time;
- When the defrag operation finishes, SSD host writes increase by several tens GBs;
- The optimization tool reports that defragmentation and consolidation passes are being performed;
- The Windows Event Log for the defrag service is reporting that a "defragmentation" has been performed instead of a "retrim";

I would say with very strong certainty that it is defragging the SSD. The link I proposed in my latest comment explains in detail when it happens and how to circumvent the issue.

Well....I am getting more and more confused. Also so happy when I tested 8 very early on I despised it and determined I would never run it.

You say this is a known by MS, problematic phenomenon and imply MS is covering it up. How do U know that is true?

Again, how do you know yr conviction/take away does not simply owe to imprecise terminology? After all, an official MS human, using the term "we" is responding to this issue in that thread. U think an MS official wouldpresent some dog and pony, elaborate set of lies re this? I have always had issues with MS.....but I also can't believe they would perpetuate elaborate snake oil in this.....anything this important.

 

[SSBrain]

You say this is a known by MS, problematic phenomenon and imply MS is covering it up. How do U know that is true?

I haven't said that MS is covering it up. They are ignoring it either because they (key people/developers who can look into it and actually solve it, not Microsoft forum moderators and MVPs who might not know every single detail - bugs especially - about the OS) don't know about it or because they do not deem it as a critical issue, since it still occurs in Technical Preview too.

 

[Virgorising]

I haven't said that MS is covering it up. They are ignoring it either because they (key people/developers who can look into it and actually solve it, not Microsoft forum moderators and MVPs who might not know every single detail - bugs especially - about the OS) don't know about it or because they do not deem it as a critical issue, since it still occurs in Technical Preview too.

One more once: as of now, and absent further data from reputable sources, I do not believe it. Again, if you read the detailed data via the official MS person I came upon, you might reconsider yr premise. Says, in respolnse to the growing number of people owning SSDs, they evolved something special, and positive in W8.

It seems, at least, to me, your conviction is yours....and perhaps not corroborated by any external data.

 

[SSBrain]

Please quote here the "detailed data" from the official MS person you're talking about, because I am unable to find it in the link you gave.

 

[Virgorising]

Please quote here the "detailed data" from the official MS person you're talking about, because I am unable to find it in the link you gave.

https://social.technet.microsoft.co...4-9cf5-437d5e212c9c/defragging-ssds-a-default


From Mr. or Ms. Geddes, a MS employee, have no clue why you missed this using the link:

In Windows 8, when the Storage Optimizer (the new defrag tool) detects that the volume is mounted on an SSD - it sends a complete set of trim hints for the entire volume again - this is done at idle time and helps to allow for SSDs that were unable to cleanup earlier - a chance to react to these hints and cleanup and optimizer for the best performance. We do not do a traditional defrag (moving files to optimizer there location for space and performance) on SSDs.
Thank you for your question and I hope this clarifies the need to run the Storage Optimizer on a regular basis.

 

[SSBrain]

https://social.technet.microsoft.co...4-9cf5-437d5e212c9c/defragging-ssds-a-default


From Mr. or Ms. Geddes, a MS employee, have no clue why you missed this using the link:

In Windows 8, when the Storage Optimizer (the new defrag tool) detects that the volume is mounted on an SSD - it sends a complete set of trim hints for the entire volume again - this is done at idle time and helps to allow for SSDs that were unable to cleanup earlier - a chance to react to these hints and cleanup and optimizer for the best performance. We do not do a traditional defrag (moving files to optimizer there location for space and performance) on SSDs.
Thank you for your question and I hope this clarifies the need to run the Storage Optimizer on a regular basis.

This does NOT answer the issue presented by the OP. It's merely stating what the Storage Optimizer is supposed to do, not what it actually does because of the unresolved issues it has. And if you actually read that thread fully, you would see that people reported that Windows is indeed defragmenting the SSD despite what the employee wrote.

 

[itsdenn]

Those who say so have no idea what they're talking about and spouting out canned answers.

Given that:
- SSD load remains pegged at 100% for a prolonged amount of time when this happens;
- The drive reports continuous writes in the several tens to hundreds of MB/s range for said time;
- When the defrag operation finishes, SSD host writes increase by several tens GBs;
- The optimization tool reports that defragmentation and consolidation passes are being performed;
- The Windows Event Log for the defrag service is reporting that a "defragmentation" has been performed instead of a "retrim";

I would say with very strong certainty that it is defragging the SSD. The link I proposed in my latest comment explains in detail when it happens and how to circumvent the issue.

Thanks alot for the information and the link you mentioned certainly helped me I set it up so everytime my pc is idle it will retrim my ssd and after a few hours of leaving my pc idle it sure did the right thing thanks alot.

 

[Virgorising]

This does NOT answer the issue presented by the OP. It's merely stating what the Storage Optimizer is supposed to do, not what it actually does because of the unresolved issues it has.

First the OP seems to have resolved his issue, tho I am unclear wut link he refers to.

Next, what IS a known phenomenon is when humans invest blindly in some conviction, sometimes fueled by fear, and that makes them impervious to being open and chasing and identifying truth.

Not to come across as doing cross examination, but I would like to see supporting data confirming yr conviction, that this element in w 8 does not work.

MS is a shameless monopoly for sure---tho it has lost in some litigations--- I read its entire history, but the net is still the net and I see no such offerings online corroborating yr conviction.

Not sure if there are any here, but, I wold think were this glitch actual, there would have been long ago.
_______________________________________________
Edit: http://superuser.com/questions/479207/what-does-optimize-drives-do-in-windows-8

 

[Virgorising]

Wait! SORRY, I stand corrected. There apparently IS a bug in 8 re TRIM:

http://www.outsidethebox.ms/why-windows-8-defragments-your-ssd-and-how-you-can-avoid-this/

It's a journey. Above very good thread.

I am again relieved I determined early on after initial test, I would never run 8.

 

[SSBrain]

If you used Windows 8/8.1 and closely monitored SSD writes and/or Windows activity/logs you would have easily seen ample evidence of this issue occurring on your own PC. However, you won't since you you're using Windows 7, which doesn't have this problem.

Since this is something that occurs silently during idle background activity/Windows maintenance, most people will never notice it and that's why it's so seldom reported.

It doesn't help that the problem is with strictly related the Windows 8 scheduled maintenance. By clicking manually the optimize button in the Optimize Drives window, a "retrim" is indeed performed. This is likely one of the main sources of confusion about this problem and why many, MS employees included, seem to think that there's nothing wrong with it.

 

[stlc8tr]

Wait! SORRY, I stand corrected. There apparently IS a bug in 8 re TRIM:

http://www.outsidethebox.ms/why-windows-8-defragments-your-ssd-and-how-you-can-avoid-this/

It's a journey. Above very good thread.

I am again relieved I determined early on after initial test, I would never run 8.

So you spent all this time arguing with SSBrain and didn't bother to read the link that he posted in message #10?

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=36833053&postcount=10

 

[Virgorising]

If you used Windows 8/8.1 and closely monitored SSD writes and/or Windows activity/logs you would have easily seen ample evidence of this issue occurring on your own PC. However, you won't since you you're using Windows 7, which doesn't have this problem.

Since this is something that occurs silently during idle background activity/Windows maintenance, most people will never notice it and that's why it's so seldom reported.

It doesn't help that the problem is with strictly related the Windows 8 scheduled maintenance. By clicking manually the optimize button in the Optimize Drives window, a "retrim" is indeed performed. This is likely one of the main sources of confusion about this problem and why many, MS employees included, seem to think that there's nothing wrong with it.

Indeed! I am always chasing truth, it's never linear. Again, when I tested 8 early on, I was gob smacked. Horrified. First thought: seriously? They din learn anything from the Vista debacle?

And I now agree, even given how vast and regimented MS is.....wicked scary an official employee is not getting this.:|

Wild horses and Global warming will not make me give up W7.

Very interesting stuff this is!!!!!!!! Sad, but interesting.
_________________________________________________
Mom always said and says, if I don't become less trusting, I will never survive in this world. I have so many serious issues with MS, I thought, well, at least in this, I am properly cynicized (new word).....but, I just learned....not so much.

 

[Jovec]

I looked into this a little in this thread.