Windows 8.1 Clean install and activation problems

[Bateluer]

This is proving to be a problem. I purchased a Lenovo Yoga 11S Wednesday morning. Like any OEM laptop, its filled to the brim with junk and bloatware. So I go to do a clean install of Windows 8.1. I pulled the OEM W8.1 key from the BIOS.

Here's the problem. The officially sanctioned way to do a clean W8 install on OEM hardware is to torrent the ISOs, install with the generic key, than use slmgr to change to your OEM key, then activate. And I'm having problems getting the ISOs from multiple sources to actually work. A few of the highly popular untouched AIOs from *** all fail when burned to DVD media between 85 and 92% of copying the files to the Yoga. And this is a common problem, if I go by the comments. The Yoga won't recognize any USB stick that I create with Rufus at all, it doesn't even see it in the boot menu.

I'm not sure what Microsoft's logic was for making OEM licensing on W8 such a broken mess. At the moment, the very nice hardware in the Yoga 11S makes a fancy paperweight on my desk until I can get working W8.1 Core media.

Oh, if one goes to the Microsoft site and tries grab the install media using a product key, it rejects because its an OEM key. And Lenovo's support forums and FAQ all say 'Use our recovery.', which pretty much defeats the purpose of a clean install.

Any ideas?

Edit - Removed the solved tag because its not solved

 

[Imaginer]

Simply uninstall Lenovo or other software you do not need from the factory OEM setup install. There simply is no need to go through the trouble of wiping the drive.

There should be no reason one cannot uninstall the bundled Norton applications, and launcher software that Lenovo may have.

Then, perform an image backup with all of the previous additional software off. That is now your new recovery media.

Clean installing, in the past ensures an uncorrupted registry, but that practice is now or should be wayside. Clean installing ensures that you have no previous conflicts with drivers that do not remove properly through upgrading - hence that is why the practice carries over.

But just wondering, have you read on these resources here?

http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/...s-81-iso/67bca873-4bec-460b-bc74-410a808d5da6

 

[Bateluer]

Simply uninstall Lenovo or other software you do not need from the factory OEM setup install. There simply is no need to go through the trouble of wiping the drive.

There should be no reason one cannot uninstall the bundled Norton applications, and launcher software that Lenovo may have.

Then, perform an image backup with all of the previous additional software off. That is now your new recovery media.

I've attempted that before, and it never comes close to a clean install. You don't get all the space back, nor is it easy to clean out the registry.

Clean installing, in the past ensures an uncorrupted registry, but that practice is now or should be wayside. Clean installing ensures that you have no previous conflicts with drivers that do not remove properly through upgrading - hence that is why the practice carries over.

See above. Even if I uninstalled all the Lenovo bloat, the install size would still be double the clean install size.

Please, no more comments about just uninstalling the bloat. Focus on a solution to Microsoft's broken activation system.

But just wondering, have you read on these resources here?

http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/...s-81-iso/67bca873-4bec-460b-bc74-410a808d5da6

Yes, and they fail in the first reply.

As mentioned this will only work with Windows 8.0 retail keys so it is only a half solved problem.

As I said, I have an OEM key and cannot download the ISO from Microsoft. And as the OP in that link notes, "So now not only OEM customers must look to torrents in order to get installation files but now customers who bought a license directly from Microsoft must look to torrents to get a Windows 8.1 installation .iso.".



I could pirate it entirely, but one shouldn't have to do that in order to use the machine they've legally purchased.

 

[Imaginer]

I've attempted that before, and it never comes close to a clean install. You don't get all the space back, nor is it easy to clean out the registry.

Even if I uninstalled all the Lenovo bloat, the install size would still be double the clean install size.

I forgot to mention the recovery partition that maybe installed as a separate partition. Removing that and reintegrating that partition back into the main partition would free up space, if you have accounts of still taking double of the install size.

It very well could be something like this:

http://www.zdnet.com/lenovo-cleans-up-its-incredibly-messy-yoga-13-disk-layout-7000008379/

 

[Bateluer]

I forgot to mention the recovery partition that maybe installed as a separate partition. Removing that and reintegrating that partition back into the main partition would free up space, if you have accounts of still taking double of the install size.

It very well could be something like this:

http://www.zdnet.com/lenovo-cleans-up-its-incredibly-messy-yoga-13-disk-layout-7000008379/

I've already cleared all of Lenovo's partitions. I've actually gotten some versions of W8.1 to install, but they don't match my OEM key, so slmgr break. AFAIK, I need a W8.1 Core x64 ISO that actually works, since Microsoft forces users to a legally grey area with torrents.

 

[daveybrat]

You shouldn't even have to enter the product key for an real OEM version of Windows 8.1.

I've reinstalled Windows 8 and 8.1 on numerous branded laptops, Dell, HP, Lenovo, etc. and it doesn't even ask for a product key. It just reads it from the bios.

Once in Windows it activates automatically for me. But, i do have the real Windows 8 and 8.1 OEM disks. Maybe it's the versions you downloaded that are the problem.

 

[Bateluer]

You shouldn't even have to enter the product key for an real OEM version of Windows 8.1.

I've reinstalled Windows 8 and 8.1 on numerous branded laptops, Dell, HP, Lenovo, etc. and it doesn't even ask for a product key. It just reads it from the bios.

Once in Windows it activates automatically for me. But, i do have the real Windows 8 and 8.1 OEM disks. Maybe it's the versions you downloaded that are the problem.

You are correct. Thats what I've been saying. Getting an OEM ISO through torrents is hit or miss. I did manage to find an 8.0 OEM ISO for my older Acer several months back, but that won't work for the Leonovo as it has an 8.1 key.

 

[code65536]

"Untouched AIO" is oxymoronic--if it's an AIO, it's been modified.

Nor do you require an OEM install disc. If I'm not mistaken, OEMs get the same ISOs as everyone else, and an "Acer" ISO is one that Acer has modified. Just get the official ISO for Windows 8.1 (with Update 1). The great thing about getting the standard ISO is that it's easy to verify that you're getting the right file. Simply go to MSDN subscriptions and look up the ISO that you want and copy its SHA-1 hash (you can do this even if you don't have a MSDN sub). Then search for that hash to find a real untouched file. And when you've downloaded it, use HashCheck to verify that the hash does match what is listed on MSDN.

Since your machine's key is already in the MSDM table, the installer should detect that and let you breeze through the install hassle-free.

 

[Bateluer]

I have solved the issue.

This morning, I purchased a pair of 8GB USB sticks from Walmart. The only stick I had of sufficient size was 5 years old and since the Yoga couldn't even see it, I wan't to rule that out.

I used an AIO ISO from *** and one of the new sticks to create a bootable installer using the Windows 7 USB DVD Downloader Tool. This ISO does not have an ei.cfg file, but has a custom installer script to allow the user to choose their edition at the very start. The Yoga would then see the USB stick, but would fail to boot until I disabled Secure Boot. Go figure, that feature has been a major annoyance in both of my W8 laptops. This installer did not require a key at the start, but asked during the initial post install setup, which accepted my OEM key and activated successfully.

Nor do you require an OEM install disc. If I'm not mistaken, OEMs get the same ISOs as everyone else, and an "Acer" ISO is one that Acer has modified. Just get the official ISO for Windows 8.1 (with Update 1)..

Not exactly. Microsoft does not provide ISOs for Windows 8.1. So you're going to be getting them from torrent sites and cross checking SHA1s. For the Acer, I required a specific OEM W8 ISO in order to do a clean install.

 

[Bateluer]

Well, almost solved. In order to boot off a USB stick, you have to disable secure boot as I said. Turn Secure Boot back on, and the Yoga can no longer see the SSD and Windows can't boot.

The train wreck that is Windows 8 gets further derailed by OEM incompetence.

 

[code65536]

Well, almost solved. In order to boot off a USB stick, you have to disable secure boot as I said. Turn Secure Boot back on, and the Yoga can no longer see the SSD and Windows can't boot.

The train wreck that is Windows 8 gets further derailed by OEM incompetence.

No, that just means that your goodness-knows-what-went-into-it AIO ISO has a tampered bootloader. As I already recommended, you need to go to MSDN, look up the official hashes, and download ISOs that match those hashes (and yes, I know that Microsoft never released those ISOs outside of MSDN and that you'll have to get them from torrents or other sources--the point of my post was that you should be looking at the hashes and making sure what you you get is genuine).

If you want some AIO, make it yourself so that you know exactly what has gone into it, instead of trusting some random download that you found online.

And if you do have a proper genuine ISO and not some online frankenthing, you can put it on a USB stick and boot from it just fine with Secure Boot enabled. I know, because I've done clean installs this way on a handful ODD-less systems and never once bothered to disable Secure Boot. Oh, and I also customized my ISO, slipstreamed in updates, etc. Those kinds of things shouldn't and don't cause problems with Secure Boot--whatever thing you got was modified in a way that goes beyond that.

Moral of the story: Don't trust. Always verify.

 

[Bateluer]

No, that just means that your goodness-knows-what-went-into-it AIO ISO has a tampered bootloader. As I already recommended, you need to go to MSDN, look up the official hashes, and download ISOs that match those hashes (and yes, I know that Microsoft never released those ISOs outside of MSDN and that you'll have to get them from torrents or other sources--the point of my post was that you should be looking at the hashes and making sure what you you get is genuine).

If you want some AIO, make it yourself so that you know exactly what has gone into it, instead of trusting some random download that you found online.

And if you do have a proper genuine ISO and not some online frankenthing, you can put it on a USB stick and boot from it just fine with Secure Boot enabled. I know, because I've done clean installs this way on a handful ODD-less systems and never once bothered to disable Secure Boot. Oh, and I also customized my ISO, slipstreamed in updates, etc. Those kinds of things shouldn't and don't cause problems with Secure Boot--whatever thing you got was modified in a way that goes beyond that.

Moral of the story: Don't trust. Always verify.

Sigh, again, nope. The Yoga won't even recognize a USB stick is plugged in, even if its an empty stick. The ONLY way to boot from a USB stick is to disable secure boot.

The ISO used was fine, basically a full retail ISO with variable ei.cfg files. Microsoft's OS and system is just broken, horribly. Windows 8's problems are well documented now.

Edit - Seems to also have a sleep of death problem and requires a hard power reset to get it wake up again. Starting to think this is a defective unit.

 

[code65536]

Hmm, in that case, I would tend towards blaming it on Lenovo. I've never had issues with Secure Boot and a USB drive containing a customized install image. And I've done this with a Gigabyte motherboard, an Acer laptop, a Dell laptop, and an Asus laptop.

 

[Bateluer]

Hmm, in that case, I would tend towards blaming it on Lenovo. I've never had issues with Secure Boot and a USB drive containing a customized install image. And I've done this with a Gigabyte motherboard, an Acer laptop, a Dell laptop, and an Asus laptop.

My previous Acer laptop didn't have a problem with Secure Boot either, it only needed to be disabled on that unit in order to see the actual POST instead of the Acer splash. In fact, Windows would fail to boot if I turned it off.

I'm venting on the Lenovo support forums now, see if someone over there is more familiar with the specifics of this model.

I suppose I could just through Mint or Ubuntu on it, though I've no idea how well Linux will handle the Yoga's convertible modes.

Edit - The hell? In the process of turning on, turning off, disabling/enabling USB boot, fast boot, etc, now it won't boot into the installed OS at all. I'm seriously thinking about returning it altogether.

 

[RampantAndroid]

My previous Acer laptop didn't have a problem with Secure Boot either, it only needed to be disabled on that unit in order to see the actual POST instead of the Acer splash. In fact, Windows would fail to boot if I turned it off.

I'm venting on the Lenovo support forums now, see if someone over there is more familiar with the specifics of this model.

I suppose I could just through Mint or Ubuntu on it, though I've no idea how well Linux will handle the Yoga's convertible modes.

Edit - The hell? In the process of turning on, turning off, disabling/enabling USB boot, fast boot, etc, now it won't boot into the installed OS at all. I'm seriously thinking about returning it altogether.

Are the UEFI boot entries corrupted? Can you get Windows into the advanced boot screen?

 

[Bateluer]

Are the UEFI boot entries corrupted? Can you get Windows into the advanced boot screen?

There was no way to get far enough to get into the advanced boot options, it was failing almost immediately. :/

After crawling through the Lenovo forums though, I've found what the issue was with Secure Boot. To be bootable, a USB stick must be formatted in FAT32. NTFS will not EFI boot. Which explains why the bios boot menu cannot see the SSD, its formatted in NTFS. The Windows 7 USB tool always creates with NTFS, with no option to change. I had thought I'd tried to get Rufus to create a stick with FAT32, but after paying closer attention to it, it would set the file system back to NTFS after selecting the ISO image. Depending on which Partition scheme I select for it, I am able to go back up and select the FAT32 file system though.

I was able to get a co workers to send the 8.1 Pro ISO he DLed from Microsoft directly; he's paid for a retail key. But, that seems to be a Pro ISO only; either install with no ei.cfg to get Pro or it breaks immediately on the start of the install with a modified ei.cfg.

So, basically, I'm back to square 1; I need a Windows 8.1 Core x64 ISO. Not CoreSingleLanguage, plain Core. Which has proven difficult from the get go owing to Microsoft's decision not to release ISOs publicly, further compounded by the generic unpopularity of the OS itself and OEM laziness. The only place to get these Core images seem to be Murphy78's torrents from MDL, which have a bug that sometimes causes the install to error out at ~90% complete of the file copy.

Hell, I am almost frustrated enough with this damn thing to consider boxing it back up and dumping on Best Buy's service desk. 😡 Which would be a shame, given the excellent hardware Lenovo seems to have built in the Yoga.

Slightly unrelated, I tried going to OnTheHub to see if my local Community College is partnered with Microsoft; and it was. But when I tried to register an account with my .edu email address, their system says its not a recognized school. So I've opened a ticket with them to add it, seeing how my school shows up when searched for. I'd fork over 10 bucks for a Pro 8.1 license; the dirty feeling is nothing a few beers won't cure.

How Microsoft manages to continue to make Windows 8.x worse is simply mind blowing though.

 

[Mem]

How Microsoft manages to continue to make Windows 8.x worse is simply mind blowing though.

Main problem is getting a legit or unaltered ISO of Win8.1 for legit Win8 users,as you stated a lot of Win8 users have to search the net for a 8.1 ISO torrent etc..


USB wise yes its easy to do with Win7 USB tool(8GB needed for Win8.1 x64 bit) and I've done one on both USB and DVD as backup(both with Update 1 already installed).

I would not say its the worst OS far from it, but they do need to think about their customers and how they do need to reinstall Windows now and then so making that easy for them would be helpful for Win8 users that have upgraded to Win8.1.

 

[fabler]

OEM keys are buried deep in the UEFI/BIOS and virtually impossible to get (until it will be eventually hacked no doubt), http://www.urtech.ca/2013/06/solved-missing-windows-8-coa-certificate-of-authenticity-cd-key/ .

I would use the recovery partition to revert to factory settings then use Windows' own 'refresh' or 'reset'. It should activate automatically and hopefully remove the crud that comes with the laptop.

I've not tried it but just a suggestion to think about.

 

[code65536]

OEM keys are buried deep in the UEFI/BIOS and virtually impossible to get (until it will be eventually hacked no doubt), http://www.urtech.ca/2013/06/solved-missing-windows-8-coa-certificate-of-authenticity-cd-key/ .

Download AIDA64 trial. Go to Motherboard > ACPI > MSDM. There's your key. There are other freeware programs that can read this information, too. I just use AIDA64 because I already use it for other purposes. (It can also show you the SLIC table used for BIOS-activating Windows 7 and earlier.)

The key is very easy to get. Definitely not "virtually impossible".

 

[Bateluer]

I would use the recovery partition to revert to factory settings then use Windows' own 'refresh' or 'reset'. It should activate automatically and hopefully remove the crud that comes with the laptop.

I've not tried it but just a suggestion to think about.

Didn't attempt the 'Factory Reset' option with the Lenovo, but I did with my previous Acer. Just used the restore partition to recopy all the crap. Regardless, hard drives fail and are replaced, factor reset is useless if you're replacing a mechanical drive with an SSD.

Download AIDA64 trial. Go to Motherboard > ACPI > MSDM. There's your key. There are other freeware programs that can read this information, too. I just use AIDA64 because I already use it for other purposes. (It can also show you the SLIC table used for BIOS-activating Windows 7 and earlier.)

The key is very easy to get. Definitely not "virtually impossible".

This. RWEverything works as well. Getting the key is easy, getting it to play nicely with available install media is another. 😉

I did find a core ISO Saturday afternoon, which I made into a FAT32 USB installer with Rufus. This installed and activated fine. I still think its amusing that it takes Windows 8 longer to install the Metro apps afterward than it does during the initial install; all for the end user to immediately go and uninstall/unpin every single one then disable the Start Screen entirely once launcher of choice is installed.