Windows 7 vs Windows Vista paging file

pcslookout

Lifer
Mar 18, 2007
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Why does Windows 7 use such a larger default paging file over Windows Vista ? I have 8 GB of ram and Windows Vista used a paging file that was around 4 GB when everything was left as default. Windows 7 uses around 12 GB.

Is it because the way Windows 7 is setup with memory usage or what?
 

pcslookout

Lifer
Mar 18, 2007
11,959
157
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Originally posted by: VirtualLarry
Paging file being 1.5x-2.0x size of RAM is normal. Don't know why Vistas was smaller.

Yeah. I guess this is not good when people have 16 to 32 GB of ram imagine how big that page file will be! :Q
 

JesseKnows

Golden Member
Jul 7, 2000
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Yeah. I guess this is not good when people have 16 to 32 GB of ram imagine how big that page file will be! :Q

With a 1TB drive going to under $100 - who cares? Did you mind the 2GB paging file when your hard drive was 120GB?
 

Fox5

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2005
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Originally posted by: VirtualLarry
Paging file being 1.5x-2.0x size of RAM is normal. Don't know why Vistas was smaller.

That rule of thumb never made much sense to me, though I think at least equal page file size to ram size is required to go into hibernate. Still, ram is ram, whether its physical or a page file, only the total amount should matter, not some ratio between the two.
 

corkyg

Elite Member | Peripherals
Super Moderator
Mar 4, 2000
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I have never seen a bit of difference between them. Maybe that is because I control them and specify location, and min/max size.
 

Nothinman

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Sep 14, 2001
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That rule of thumb never made much sense to me, though I think at least equal page file size to ram size is required to go into hibernate.

Yea, it only really makes sense for hibernation and getting full memory dumps on crashes.

Still, ram is ram, whether its physical or a page file, only the total amount should matter, not some ratio between the two.

But the pagefile isn't RAM, virtual memory doesn't work that way.
 

Fox5

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2005
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Originally posted by: Nothinman
That rule of thumb never made much sense to me, though I think at least equal page file size to ram size is required to go into hibernate.

Yea, it only really makes sense for hibernation and getting full memory dumps on crashes.

Still, ram is ram, whether its physical or a page file, only the total amount should matter, not some ratio between the two.

But the pagefile isn't RAM, virtual memory doesn't work that way.

It's extra ram beyond physical ram, isn't it? For purposes of running a program, it sees a continuous memory space of ram + page file, and the operating system takes care of what's actually happening.
 

Nothinman

Elite Member
Sep 14, 2001
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Originally posted by: Fox5
Originally posted by: Nothinman
That rule of thumb never made much sense to me, though I think at least equal page file size to ram size is required to go into hibernate.

Yea, it only really makes sense for hibernation and getting full memory dumps on crashes.

Still, ram is ram, whether its physical or a page file, only the total amount should matter, not some ratio between the two.

But the pagefile isn't RAM, virtual memory doesn't work that way.

It's extra ram beyond physical ram, isn't it? For purposes of running a program, it sees a continuous memory space of ram + page file, and the operating system takes care of what's actually happening.

No, a process sees the maximum amount of virtual memory available on that platform regardless of physical memory and pagefile space. So a 32-bit process on Windows always sees 2G of VM (ignoring the /3GB kernel switch) and a 64-bit process always sees 8TB. Pagefile space is just secondary storage and isn't directly accessible to the CPU, anything in the pagefile has to be paged back into physical memory before the CPU can do anything with it.
 

Scotteq

Diamond Member
Apr 10, 2008
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...while we're on the topic:

Regarding shutting the Pagefile Off - which is a popular tweak - I came across the below over at SevenForums, and it appears to back up my personal experience that doing this can sometimes make a difference in XP, but not in Vista or 7. I'd be interested in knowing people's thoughts.




*Source* http://www.sevenforums.com/per...-lol-i-love-7-a-2.html


We are now discussing which is faster at paging, RAM or HDD - the answer is obvious...RAM! What needs to be explained, is how using RAM-based-Paging affects the swapping process and ALL contents within the memory system.

Windows (Vista and beyond) will try to max out your memory usage with items that you consistently use. With this form of memory management, the purpose of paging is to keep a sorted list of all objects and relieve RAM of the more redundant objects. Think of a pagefile as being a clone of what's currently in RAM + what COULD be useful, but just isn't at that time. Even though they don't belong in the RAM, they still benefit by being sorted and kept in a special place. This is why having your pagefile located in the proper place can be important. Non-fragmented pagefiles located at the beginning of good-performing disks can ensure that our sorted data loads MUCH faster. Problem is, Microsoft's implementation of Pagefile-configuration doesn't include any automated quality-control. If your pagefile is scattered about or located in a low-performing location, it MAY - in some situations - increase the responsiveness of your PC by disabling the PF. However, you should note that overall it will be the opposite effect. Here?s why:

If you load up a program called 'Ms. Piggy', she's going to boss everyone around until they decide to go to another room (aka the pagefile). If the building has no other room (pagefile disabled), they're going to either leave the building completely, or partition the first room. This partitioning will cause Ms. Piggy to place her purse in the other room, and force all but the very-most-VIPs (if not everyone) to go home. When Ms Piggy?s number is over, we run into a problem... We will have to call up some cab drivers, get them to go to everybody's house and pick them and/or their stuff up and bring it back to the office. There will be traffic along the way, and maybe even a few jams?this may take a LONG, LONG TIME. On the other hand, had we actually had a pagefile - the VIPs could stick around and observe Ms Piggy's performance. At the moment it ended, the VIPs could?ve started working immediately. All the secondary staff and related files could also be brought back in from the nearby storage area. Maybe that storage area was located on another floor, maybe it was a mail-room, doesn?t really matter cause it still beats having to travel across town.

Again, EVERYONE should understand that this ONLY pertain to a Windows OS of Vista and beyond (greater than XP...). In windows XP, RAM is NOT properly used by the OS in any manner; Paging takes on a virtual-memory-like role as opposed to the queuing-role that is used in Vista and 7. BUT!!! Because XP doesn't use extended amounts RAM except when required, using that space as an enhanced-paging-file can be a possible way to trick Windows into keeping more objects inside RAM. This is why Disabling/enabling a PF in XP can be a matter of discussion, in Vista and up, it generally can-not.

XP: If you have LOTS of RAM...and aren't in threat of any programs going bonkers due to a lack of a large-PF - disabled can offer benefits.

'Vista and beyond': RAM should be filled down to 0MB free by the OS. Programs should load faster and quieter, PF usage handles all the tracking and relocation of lesser-used apps/data in the background. No benefits should be gained by disabling a PF.

The arguments of NO PF are based almost ENTIRELY on the XP loophole. It does not hold true for later operating systems.
 

Cogman

Lifer
Sep 19, 2000
10,286
145
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Turning off the page file is a bad idea, it always has been and always will be. There are no "responsiveness" gains from doing it. The page file is there for when your ram is full, that's it. It is like a safety net. If you disable it, you are just asking for system instability.
 

KeypoX

Diamond Member
Aug 31, 2003
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Originally posted by: Cogman
Turning off the page file is a bad idea, it always has been and always will be. There are no "responsiveness" gains from doing it. The page file is there for when your ram is full, that's it. It is like a safety net. If you disable it, you are just asking for system instability.

ahh the good old page file discussion. lol

It seems that even if you have a ton of memory, some programs will not run right without a page file. And of course hibernation.

But I dont see a problem with minimizing page, i leave it on default though, shouldnt be a problem if you dont want to hibernate.
 

gizbug

Platinum Member
May 14, 2001
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I let Windows 7 handle page file with 4gig of ram. Haven't had any issues.
 

Raduque

Lifer
Aug 22, 2004
13,140
138
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Originally posted by: Fox5
I think at least equal page file size to ram size is required to go into hibernate.

I've always thought the hiberfile.sys (which is always the exact size of installed ram) was for hibernation, not the swap file.

Originally posted by: Cogman
Turning off the page file is a bad idea, it always has been and always will be. There are no "responsiveness" gains from doing it. The page file is there for when your ram is full, that's it. It is like a safety net. If you disable it, you are just asking for system instability.

I turned off the page file for testing and Saints Row 2 plays 12 times better than with it on, because for some reason the game uses swap instead of ram.
 

corkyg

Elite Member | Peripherals
Super Moderator
Mar 4, 2000
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Originally posted by: Raduque
I've always thought the hiberfile.sys (which is always the exact size of installed ram) was for hibernation, not the swap file.
Correct!

 

hanspeter

Member
Nov 5, 2008
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Originally posted by: RaduqueI turned off the page file for testing and Saints Row 2 plays 12 times better than with it on, because for some reason the game uses swap instead of ram.

It is just that an application cannot allocate pagefile space. It just allocates a chunk of virtual memory. Windows controls what happens.
 

Raduque

Lifer
Aug 22, 2004
13,140
138
106
Originally posted by: hanspeter
Originally posted by: RaduqueI turned off the page file for testing and Saints Row 2 plays 12 times better than with it on, because for some reason the game uses swap instead of ram.

It is just that an application cannot allocate pagefile space. It just allocates a chunk of virtual memory. Windows controls what happens.

Well, whatever is happening, Saints Row 2 ends up in the page file no matter how much ram is free. It only uses 1.9gb at it's worst (that I've seen) and it still ends up in the page file - there's TONS of HD activity (and framerate suffers) when driving, but that activity stops, and the game runs smooth, when the pagefile is turned off.