Question Windows 11 Bad Performance With Some Older Games?

[Cassius101]

My Specs
Gigabyte Gaming OC 6800XT
Intel I7 12700kf
16GB 5200 MHZ Kingston DDR5 Ram
ASRock Z690 PG Velocita Motherboard
Western Digital Black 1TB SN850 NVMe


Darkest Hour Mod for Red Orchestra doesn't work at all and crashes all the time, my performance on Battlefield 4 and Squad is lack luster and it isn't as good as this. I only get 50-80fps on 1440p / mostly high settings on Squad.
I have Windows 11 Home 64 bit.

This person gets 70-100FPS on 4K.

What is wrong with my PC? The only reason I can think of is because it is Windows 11, maybe I should try running it in compatibility mode but I doubt that will help, it already didn't work doing that for Darkest Hour mod Red Orchestra which runs on the Unreal 2 game engine. I start Darkest Hour and it is in a horrible resolution and right after I change the resolution the game freezes.

 

[Tech Junky]

Use task manager to figure out what kind of resources you're using for a baseline.

first thing that sticks out is the RAM - W11 likes to bloat from a boot to desktop @ 4GB or so of RAM to easily 10-16GB once you open a few programs

I'm running 2 systems with 12700K / 12700H the K is my server that's running Linux and is headless but the laptop with the H has a 3060 in it and everything for the most part runs smooth. It generates enough heat though to heat a small room when fully engaged.

Which leads to the next subject... heat soak... Run HWINFO sensors and see what your temps are doing. If the GPU is hitting higher temps you might want to pull it apart and put better thermal paste inside or graphite pads instead. The CPU isn't the biggest part of the equation when it comes to games but it's a part to be looked at as well.

I don't really think it matter whether it's 10 or 11 though but, 11 has enhancements for the hybrid cores to work more efficiently. There might be more benefit to running Pro vs Home though as it may unlock more features for the CPU. The Home option has always been gimped to the bare minimum for performance.

 

[Furious_Styles]

Run some benchmarks like superposition and compare to others with same GPU, maybe you can narrow down the source of the problem.

 

[fralexandr]

Squad seems to run on Unreal Engine4
It seems like Squad might be CPU limited, as such decreasing most graphical settings might not improve performance much. Decreasing settings that increases the amount of objects/physics might improve performance, i.e. draw distance or field of view.
are you running 2x8GB or 1x16GB of DDR5? From a quick google that DDR5 probably has a CAS 40?
If you're running 1x16GB that might be why. Adding another stick of ram could bring up your fps noticeably in CPU limited games.
You can probably use HWINFO to check if your RAM is running at its rated speed, timings, and in dual channel.

 

[Stuka87]

My guess is that its due to Windows 11 not having the best DX9/DX10 support. I know others have complained about DX9 games not always running properly, or at all.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

My guess is that its due to Windows 11 not having the best DX9/DX10 support. I know others have complained about DX9 games not always running properly, or at all.

All of my GOG games run fine on my 11 pro zen 3 systems so far. 2 with 6 series RX, 1 with 3060ti. Fallout 3 and New Vegas, even the now ancient Delta Force: Black Hawk Down, and Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter run fine.

Could this be an E core thing?

BTW, I asked my son that plays Squad, and he said complain in chat when it happens because other players will confirm if it is game side.

 

[Stuka87]

Could this be an E core thing?

Ah, that could certainly be the cause.

A potential test/fix for this is to disable the ecores for that game.

Basically, after it is running, go into the affinity settings for that process, and disables the cores that corelate to eCores. I have had to do this for quite a few older games that crash on CPUs with lots of cores. Dragon Age 1 is known for this issue.

 

[Cassius101]

Squad seems to run on Unreal Engine4
It seems like Squad might be CPU limited, as such decreasing most graphical settings might not improve performance much. Decreasing settings that increases the amount of objects/physics might improve performance, i.e. draw distance or field of view.
are you running 2x8GB or 1x16GB of DDR5? From a quick google that DDR5 probably has a CAS 40?
If you're running 1x16GB that might be why. Adding another stick of ram could bring up your fps noticeably in CPU limited games.
You can probably use HWINFO to check if your RAM is running at its rated speed, timings, and in dual channel.

It is 1 stick of 16GB DDR5 Ram, It is running at 4800mhz I think but it's maximum is 5200mhz. My performance is bad in Battlefield 4 and Squad since I can see people with similar specs in both games that have significantly better performance and the same card as me but they are on Windows 10. So Windows 11 utilizes 2x 8GB ram better? It would be better for me to get 32gb DDR5 ram in 4 sticks of 8gb Ram instead of 64gb DDR5 ram in 4 sticks of 16gb? I don't even wanna play these games due to the bad performance on both.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

It is 1 stick of 16GB DDR5 Ram, It is running at 4800mhz I think but it's maximum is 5200mhz.

There is your problem. Running single channel cuts memory bandwidth in half.

It would be better for me to get 32gb DDR5 ram in 4 sticks of 8gb Ram instead of 64gb DDR5 ram in 4 sticks of 16gb? I don't even wanna play these games due to the bad performance on both.

It's complicated, and depends on whether the game values either bandwidth or latency. Or both for that matter.

Generally, more DIMMs = more ranks = more bandwidth. Less DIMMs = less ranks = lower latency.

 

[Hans Gruber]

I think your problem is not a windows 11 issue but rather an AMD driver issue. They are slow at optimizing their GPU's. When they release new drivers they have these huge performance improvements. Because their drivers kind of suck. It makes me wonder how good their GPU's would be with really good drivers.

 

[Stuka87]

I think your problem is not a windows 11 issue but rather an AMD driver issue. They are slow at optimizing their GPU's. When they release new drivers they have these huge performance improvements. Because their drivers kind of suck. It makes me wonder how good their GPU's would be with really good drivers.

This is not a GPU driver issue. Especially since these are all older games that were optimized for ages ago. And AMD drivers have been pretty solid for many years. 10 years ago, I would have agreed with you.

As the post just above states, running single channel memory will kill performance. Windows 11 may not be helping.

 

[Stuka87]

It is 1 stick of 16GB DDR5 Ram, It is running at 4800mhz I think but it's maximum is 5200mhz. My performance is bad in Battlefield 4 and Squad since I can see people with similar specs in both games that have significantly better performance and the same card as me but they are on Windows 10. So Windows 11 utilizes 2x 8GB ram better? It would be better for me to get 32gb DDR5 ram in 4 sticks of 8gb Ram instead of 64gb DDR5 ram in 4 sticks of 16gb? I don't even wanna play these games due to the bad performance on both.

Get a second 16GB dimm (same brand/speed/model as your existing one). Its important the two sticks match. I would not go for four sticks as your board only has dual channel memory. Four sticks would hurt latency.

If you can't find another stick that matches your existing one, you may need to just buy a match pair and sell off your current stick.

 

[Dribble]

There is your problem. Running single channel cuts memory bandwidth in half.

But it's not actually his problem is it, 1 stick is still plenty fast enough for these games. Sure 2 would be better but it's not going to matter running some old DX9 game. Laptops have one and they work fine. It also wouldn't make it crash.

If it was incorrectly using an E core it would run a bit slower but it wouldn't crash.

The thing likely to cause the crash with specific DX games would be gpu drivers, and AMD has plenty of history of this.

 

[Tup3x]

Get a second 16GB dimm (same brand/speed/model as your existing one). Its important the two sticks match. I would not go for four sticks as your board only has dual channel memory. Four sticks would hurt latency.

If you can't find another stick that matches your existing one, you may need to just buy a match pair and sell off your current stick.

Four single rank dimms are faster than two single rank dimms. One should avoid using four dual rank dimms. Either two dual rank or four single ranks dimms for optimal performance.

 

[Stuka87]

But it's not actually his problem is it, 1 stick is still plenty fast enough for these games. Sure 2 would be better but it's not going to matter running some old DX9 game. Laptops have one and they work fine. It also wouldn't make it crash.

If it was incorrectly using an E core it would run a bit slower but it wouldn't crash.

The thing likely to cause the crash with specific DX games would be gpu drivers, and AMD has plenty of history of this.

Everything you just stated is false.

Running a single chip can greatly impact performance. Especially if its a single, dual rank, memory module. As only one rank can be accessed at any given time. So you end up with half the bandwidth, which can then end up with wait states while it goes back and forth between the two ranks.

Older games crash on CPUs with more than 2-4 cores all the time. As I noted above, many games need to have cores manually disabled to prevent crashing. This is well known be people that play older games on new systems.

And please, leave the nVidia bias out the conversation.

 

[Shmee]

Well, I kinda think it could be a Windows 11 issue, or as mentioned, maybe due to the e cores on the Alder Lake. I kinda doubt it is the memory bandwidth issue, I doubt it would make that much difference, but I could be wrong.

That said, I do think you should run dual channel memory, and 16GB is kinda bare minimum for a modern gaming system, especially for Windows 11. I would match that stick with another for 32GB.

 

[Dribble]

Everything you just stated is false.

Running a single chip can greatly impact performance. Especially if its a single, dual rank, memory module. As only one rank can be accessed at any given time. So you end up with half the bandwidth, which can then end up with wait states while it goes back and forth between the two ranks.

Older games crash on CPUs with more than 2-4 cores all the time. As I noted above, many games need to have cores manually disabled to prevent crashing. This is well known be people that play older games on new systems.

And please, leave the nVidia bias out the conversation.

The memory bandwidth even with a single stick of DDR 5200mhz ram is still more then a dual 2400mhz setup used in many systems that would play games like these easily.

OIder games that don't run when you have > 4 cores are going to crash for lots of people as that is so common, so it is unlikely to be the case here.

The only bias here being shown is yours towards AMD. Refusing to see drivers as a potential problem when that are actually the most likely one because he has your favorite make of gpu installed is a very unhelpful.

 

[tamz_msc]

The issue with squad is most certainly due to running a single stick of RAM. The crash in the RO mod might be due to the P/E cores, driver issue, or Windows 11 incompatibility. Try disabling E cores and then running it for a start.

 

[fralexandr]

The memory bandwidth even with a single stick of DDR 5200mhz ram is still more then a dual 2400mhz setup used in many systems that would play games like these easily.

OIder games that don't run when you have > 4 cores are going to crash for lots of people as that is so common, so it is unlikely to be the case here.

The only bias here being shown is yours towards AMD. Refusing to see drivers as a potential problem when that are actually the most likely one because he has your favorite make of gpu installed is a very unhelpful.

Ddr5 5200 cas40 vs ddr4 2400 cas17...
Cas latency does matter, though usually not as much as bandwidth.

I've had a few issues with older games requiring core disabling. Throwing in a mix of performance and efficiency cores also complicates things. Old single player games probably won't receive any patches to fix it, except maybe from a community patch. Older multiplayer games might eventually get around to fixing it, especially if more of the customer base is using it, which is unlikely at this point due to how new the big/little cpu design is.

While I've had my fair share of gpu driver issues in the past, I haven't had any recently.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

OP explains issues, posts a vid of a player with his card and a Ryzen 5950X significantly outperforming his, windows version unknown. Given that info, the AMD drivers are an unlikely culprit. Though nuking them in safe mode with DDU, and reinstalling from scratch is best practice here. I'd try a few older versions if that doesn't fix it.

Disabling E cores is warranted for evaluation.

Eliminate Win11 next if need be. If you have a extra drive, install 10 on it and see if it resolves the issue. No need to activate it for testing.

I will be mildly surprised if dual channel resolves anything. Upgrading to 32GB in late '22 is good advice though. However, I'd wait a little longer, DDR5 prices are coming down still.

On a related note: Since win10 matured, I have enjoyed the best compatibility with my old games yet. 11 has been identical to 10 in stability for me. I waited until it matured a little before trying it, not the early adopter type normally. Last time I had an issue it was the weapon debris setting in Fallout 4 with Nvidia cards. It would crash to desktop within 30 seconds when enabled.

 

[Leeea]

I think your problem is not a windows 11 issue but rather an AMD driver issue. They are slow at optimizing their GPU's. When they release new drivers they have these huge performance improvements. Because their drivers kind of suck. It makes me wonder how good their GPU's would be with really good drivers.

If you read his initial post completely, you will see he is comparing his AMD rx6800xt to other peoples AMD rx6800xt.

As such, if there was a AMD driver issue, it would also effect what he is comparing against.

But it's not actually his problem is it, 1 stick is still plenty fast enough for these games. Sure 2 would be better but it's not going to matter running some old DX9 game. Laptops have one and they work fine. It also wouldn't make it crash.

If it was incorrectly using an E core it would run a bit slower but it wouldn't crash.

The thing likely to cause the crash with specific DX games would be gpu drivers, and AMD has plenty of history of this.

If you read his initial post completely, you will see he is comparing his AMD rx6800xt to other peoples AMD rx6800xt.

If there was a AMD driver issue, it would also effect what he is comparing against.

The memory bandwidth even with a single stick of DDR 5200mhz ram is still more then a dual 2400mhz setup used in many systems that would play games like these easily.

OIder games that don't run when you have > 4 cores are going to crash for lots of people as that is so common, so it is unlikely to be the case here.

The only bias here being shown is yours towards AMD. Refusing to see drivers as a potential problem when that are actually the most likely one because he has your favorite make of gpu installed is a very unhelpful.

Your posts in this thread are moronic.

A. Read the entirety of the OPs post

B. Realize he is comparing his AMD rx6800xt to another persons AMD rx6800xt

C. Thereby, the whole nvidia vs amd vs drivers stupidity your claiming here is complete nonsense. This is an AMD to AMD comparison. If there was a driver issue, it would effect both of them.

 

[Leeea]

What is wrong with my PC?

Try disabling the efficiency cores. Some older software will put its primary thread on an ecore from time to time, and with video games, everything waits for the primary thread.


If that does not work, buy another stick of RAM. Your effectively running your CPU with 1/2 the memory bandwidth it was designed for.

Page 22 of your mainboards manual:

https://download.asrock.com/Manual/Z690%20PG%20Velocita.pdf

Explains how you should configure your memory for proper performance. In short, your doing it wrong. Sorry.
Page 8 shows the layout of the slots.

Be sure to test before and after with a memory speed tool to verify proper install.

 

[Furious_Styles]

There really isn't a huge difference in SC vs. DC in lots of games. I looked at this a while ago and just checked again and it's still pretty much the same.

 

[fralexandr]

Single channel vs dual channel :: Squad Game Owner Discussion

Hi, is there a noticeable difference in fluency and fps when using a single channel or a dual channel?

steamcommunity.com

As per youtube ~10-20fps improvement running dual channel

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Single channel vs dual channel :: Squad Game Owner Discussion

Hi, is there a noticeable difference in fluency and fps when using a single channel or a dual channel?

steamcommunity.com

As per youtube ~10-20fps improvement running dual channel

Platform and graphics settings have to be accounted for. DDR5 uses 2 32bit bus per module v. single 64 bit on DDR4 correct? I have seen test where a single DDR5 v. 2 made little difference, and at least one other where the 1s and .1s did suffer. I haven't seen any to date, that would explain the gap the OP is seeing though.