Windows 10 caps fps in windowed mode

[mysticjbyrd]

Brief explanation I found on reddit,
It is not possible to turn off V-sync in Windows 10 as it is used for core graphics gui. Since this is the case any game/application that is run in windowed mode (borderless or not) will also be run with V-sync. This used to not be the case with Windows 7 (with the basic Aero as you said) and prior versions but starting with Windows 8 it was always on for desktop. The only way to turn V-sync off would be to run in exclusive fullscreen and turn it off in game or force it off if you an ATI or NVIDIA gpu.

I almost always play a game on one screen, and do work or browse on the other. And I don't like v-sync.
Sign...maybe I should just go back to windows 7...

 

[bystander36]

Does Win 10 cap it at your refresh rate, or what. Your explanation only talks about triple buffering. Triple buffering does not cap your refresh rate. It really doesn't do anything if a game doesn't have V-sync on. So just don't use V-sync. If you are having troubles with a particular game forcing V-sync on, then Win 7 would be no different, as V-sync caps your FPS.

 

[mysticjbyrd]

Does Win 10 cap it at your refresh rate, or what. Your explanation only talks about triple buffering. Triple buffering does not cap your refresh rate. It really doesn't do anything if a game doesn't have V-sync on. So just don't use V-sync. If you are having troubles with a particular game forcing V-sync on, then Win 7 would be no different, as V-sync caps your FPS.

It caps your fps to the refresh rate of your monitor.

 

[bystander36]

That was some explanation I found on reddit.

It caps your fps based to the refresh rate of your monitor.

Triple buffering has nothing to do with capping. It just uses 2 back buffers instead of 1. So, unless Win 10 also forces V-sync, Win 7 won't help.

What is the game you are having issues with? Maybe the game forces V-sync on. Some do, and some can be forced to turn it off from .ini files or from your video cards control panel.

Perhaps you are talking about the wrong thing, and just that Win 10 simply has a cap, and triple buffering has nothing to do with it. But you did say that if you disable V-sync, it's not capped. Maybe you meant to say that Win 10 forces V-sync in windowed mode?

 

[mysticjbyrd]

Triple buffering has nothing to do with capping. It just uses 2 back buffers instead of 1. So, unless Win 10 also forces V-sync, Win 7 won't help.

What is the game you are having issues with? Maybe the game forces V-sync on. Some do, and some can be forced to turn it off from .ini files or from your video cards control panel.

Perhaps you are talking about the wrong thing, and just that Win 10 simply has a cap, and triple buffering has nothing to do with it. But you did say that if you disable V-sync, it's not capped. Maybe you meant to say that Win 10 forces V-sync in windowed mode?

v-sync

 

[postmortemIA]

Triple buffering has nothing to do with capping. It just uses 2 back buffers instead of 1. So, unless Win 10 also forces V-sync, Win 7 won't help.

What is the game you are having issues with? Maybe the game forces V-sync on. Some do, and some can be forced to turn it off from .ini files or from your video cards control panel.

Perhaps you are talking about the wrong thing, and just that Win 10 simply has a cap, and triple buffering has nothing to do with it. But you did say that if you disable V-sync, it's not capped. Maybe you meant to say that Win 10 forces V-sync in windowed mode?

windows 7 with classic desktop does not run with accelerated graphics ... hence no vsync

 

[bystander36]

windows 7 with classic desktop does not run with accelerated graphics ... hence no vsync

I've just been trying to figure out what he is talking about. Or at least what the actual problem is. I assume by your post, you are trying to say that v-sync is forced in Windowed mode in Win 10.

Now the question is, why not use fullscreen mode? I'd think if you were serious enough about a game that you wanted high FPS, you'd want to play it in fullscreen.

 

[Techhog]

I've just been trying to figure out what he is talking about. Or at least what the actual problem is. I assume by your post, you are trying to say that v-sync is forced in Windowed mode in Win 10.

Now the question is, why not use fullscreen mode? I'd think if you were serious enough about a game that you wanted high FPS, you'd want to play it in fullscreen.

I've actually played some games where the experience is much smoother in borderless windowed mode.

None of this talk even matters because he's wrong in the first place if he's saying that windowed mode forces vsync. I really have no idea what OP is saying.

OP, if you really want to go back to Windows 7, just do it.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Sure it doesn't depend on the game? In Windows 10 I can get Elite Dangerous to run above v-sync in windowed.

 

[postmortemIA]

I've just been trying to figure out what he is talking about. Or at least what the actual problem is. I assume by your post, you are trying to say that v-sync is forced in Windowed mode in Win 10.

Now the question is, why not use fullscreen mode? I'd think if you were serious enough about a game that you wanted high FPS, you'd want to play it in fullscreen.

I think he's talking that desktop window manager ("dwm.exe") when running Aero uses GPU and forces VSYNC. In Windows 7 that is. The way around it is to disable Aero.

I've noticed that windowed Netflix videos for example are capped to 60fps there as well. But if you turn off Aero, they *might* run faster than 60fps, and you'd see some tearing.

 

[bystander36]

I think he's talking that desktop window manager ("dwm.exe") when running Aero uses GPU and forces VSYNC. In Windows 7 that is. The way around it is to disable Aero.

I've noticed that windowed Netflix videos for example are capped to 60fps there as well. But if you turn off Aero, they *might* run faster than 60fps, and you'd see some tearing.

Win 10 doesn't use Aero, so I'm not sure that applies.

 

[SPBHM]

windows 10 windowed forces triple buffering and seems to eliminate tearing (and to add some input lag), but it doesn't enforce a framerate cap for me, it goes well over 60FPS (on my 60Hz screen),

I even try using borderless windowed in some games because the result is better than using vsync in fullscreen, and I use RTSS to cap at 60FPS max because there is no cap by default with windowed.

 

[postmortemIA]

Win 10 doesn't use Aero, so I'm not sure that applies.

It always uses desktop composition, and Start menu can be made Aero-like (transparent).

 

[bystander36]

windows 10 windowed forces triple buffering and seems to eliminate tearing (and to add some input lag), but it doesn't enforce a framerate cap for me, it goes well over 60FPS (on my 60Hz screen),

I even try using borderless windowed in some games because the result is better than using vsync in fullscreen, and I use RTSS to cap at 60FPS max because there is no cap by default with windowed.

That is strange, because if your FPS aren't synced with your hz, you get tearing. If you have higher FPS than hz, there is tearing, unless those extra frames are thrown away, but that can't happen with DirectX. The latency is seem consistent with v-sync, directX and triple buffering.

I did try some borderless windowed mode myself today, and I also am not capped, but I did get some tearing, though it is very rare I notice it due to 120hz.

 

[SPBHM]

That is strange, because if your FPS aren't synced with your hz, you get tearing. If you have higher FPS than hz, there is tearing, unless those extra frames are thrown away, but that can't happen with DirectX. The latency is seem consistent with v-sync, directX and triple buffering.

I did try some borderless windowed mode myself today, and I also am not capped, but I did get some tearing, though it is very rare I notice it due to 120hz.

if I get tearing with borderless it's so rare that I fail to notice, if I switch to exclusive fullscreen the tearing is extremely obvious, if I turn vsync on with fullscreen the lag and other side effects (locked FPS and so on) is also extremely obvious, one thing I do notice in windowed, apart from the slight input lag (it's minimal) is that the frame delivery doesn't seem totally smooth as it is with fullscreen without vsync, but overall I tend to play a lot of games with borderless windowed, because it seems to remedy tearing with less side effects than just vsync in fullscreen, FPS is not locked and it fluctuates freely and I fail to notice tearing with it.

it's a shame the driver control panel doesn't offer an option to enable triple buffering for d3d.

 

[bystander36]

if I get tearing with borderless it's so rare that I fail to notice, if I switch to exclusive fullscreen the tearing is extremely obvious, if I turn vsync on with fullscreen the lag and other side effects (locked FPS and so on) is also extremely obvious, one thing I do notice in windowed, apart from the slight input lag (it's minimal) is that the frame delivery doesn't seem totally smooth as it is with fullscreen without vsync, but overall I tend to play a lot of games with borderless windowed, because it seems to remedy tearing with less side effects than just vsync in fullscreen, FPS is not locked and it fluctuates freely and I fail to notice tearing with it.

it's a shame the driver control panel doesn't offer an option to enable triple buffering for d3d.

If you are having FPS above your refresh rate, it's not that it doesn't tear, it is that you are not noticing it (assuming DirectX games). Unless somehow Windows throws out frames that aren't syncing to the refresh rate, but as far as I'm aware, DirectX will not allow that.

 

[psolord]

Brief explanation I found on reddit,
It is not possible to turn off V-sync in Windows 10 as it is used for core graphics gui. Since this is the case any game/application that is run in windowed mode (borderless or not) will also be run with V-sync. This used to not be the case with Windows 7 (with the basic Aero as you said) and prior versions but starting with Windows 8 it was always on for desktop. The only way to turn V-sync off would be to run in exclusive fullscreen and turn it off in game or force it off if you an ATI or NVIDIA gpu.

I almost always play a game on one screen, and do work or browse on the other. And I don't like v-sync.
Sign...maybe I should just go back to windows 7...

Hello. I am a hobbyist benchmarker and I upload my raw benchmarks on Youtube.

This is one of my Tom Clancy's benchmarks, which I also posted in its thread here before. I have set the time to exactly where I show the settings I was using, to see that I am using borderless window.

Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six Siege 1920x1080 Ultra GTX 970 @1.5Ghz Core i5 2500k @4.8GHz

Now if you fast forward to where the action is, you will see that the game is running at 100fps+.

This is the case with all benchmarks I have used borderless fullscreen.

And for anyone wondering why I use borderless in some of my videos, it's because I am using an external recorder and some times, the process of going full screen breaks the capture.

Performance is unaffected. Gpu usage is at 99% and gpu clock steady at 1.5Ghz.

 

[TheRyuu]

In borderless I didn't think you got the input lag you normally get with vsync as ran in an exclusive fullscreen mode.

Even though desktop composition can't be disabled anymore you really shouldn't need to either. Windows 10 behavior shouldn't be any different from 8/8.1 AFAIK. People have been using borderless mode with multi-monitor setups on 8/8.1 for a while now with no issues.

 

[bystander36]

In borderless I didn't think you got the input lag you normally get with vsync as ran in an exclusive fullscreen mode.

Even though desktop composition can't be disabled anymore you really shouldn't need to either. Windows 10 behavior shouldn't be any different from 8/8.1 AFAIK. People have been using borderless mode with multi-monitor setups on 8/8.1 for a while now with no issues.

V-sync on its own doesn't even cause lag. It causes lag when paired with triple buffering in DirectX. SLI/CF causes the same issue with DirectX and v-sync.

Could windowed mode disable triple buffering or is it more likely your limited experience was with double buffering?

 

[dogen1]

V-sync on its own doesn't even cause lag. It causes lag when paired with triple buffering in DirectX. SLI/CF causes the same issue with DirectX and v-sync.

Could windowed mode disable triple buffering or is it more likely your limited experience was with double buffering?

Yeah it does..

 

[bystander36]

Yeah it does..

It may add latency in order to reach the next refresh, but with triple buffering and FPS at your refresh rate, you get that and a full refresh worth or latency, which is what most people are talking about when it comes to latency.

 

[reddrumm]

Hello. I am a hobbyist benchmarker and I upload my raw benchmarks on Youtube.

This is one of my Tom Clancy's benchmarks, which I also posted in its thread here before. I have set the time to exactly where I show the settings I was using, to see that I am using borderless window.

Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six Siege 1920x1080 Ultra GTX 970 @1.5Ghz Core i5 2500k @4.8GHz

Now if you fast forward to where the action is, you will see that the game is running at 100fps+.

This is the case with all benchmarks I have used borderless fullscreen.

And for anyone wondering why I use borderless in some of my videos, it's because I am using an external recorder and some times, the process of going full screen breaks the capture.

Performance is unaffected. Gpu usage is at 99% and gpu clock steady at 1.5Ghz.

I've found that running screen recording apps tends to stop the DWM cap/performance issues... The problem comes back when the recording app is closed. Also worth noting that those FPS reported in the video will be how often the backbuffer is swapped in-game, not how often it's then presented on-screen via DWM.

Not an elegant solution, but maybe OP could install a screen recording app and run it when running windowed games?

Personally I rolled back to Windows 7. I'm hoping all this stuff is fixed by the time Windows 10 is forced upon gamers in general.

 

[psolord]

I've found that running screen recording apps tends to stop the DWM cap/performance issues... The problem comes back when the recording app is closed. Also worth noting that those FPS reported in the video will be how often the backbuffer is swapped in-game, not how often it's then presented on-screen via DWM.

Not an elegant solution, but maybe OP could install a screen recording app and run it when running windowed games?

Personally I rolled back to Windows 7. I'm hoping all this stuff is fixed by the time Windows 10 is forced upon gamers in general.

I am using an Elgato HD 60 mate. It captures from the HDMI.

I wouldn't record benchmarking videos with software.

Welcome to the forum!

 

[reddrumm]

I am using an Elgato HD 60 mate. It captures from the HDMI.

I wouldn't record benchmarking videos with software.

Welcome to the forum!

Thanks, mate!

Sorry, wasn't implying you were using software capture - just that your post reminded me about the quirk of using screen recording software. Thought it might be worth mentioning for the OP.

 

[SlitheryDee]

I for one quite like this behavior. It makes it possible to run a game in a borderless window to get vsync when it doesn't work in the game for whatever reason. Then again I generally like vsync.