WinBond PC3500 CH5 on P4C800 Deluxe

[shleepy]

Hi there, folks! I have an Asus P4C800 Deluxe mobo w/ v1010 BIOS, P4 3.0C CPU, and 1GB of WinBond PC3500 CH5 RAM. As I understood when I bought it, CH5 RAM is supposed to get good timings @ high speeds. Well, that ain't workin for me. The best timing I can set it to is 2.5-3-3-6

I have the FSB @ 217MHz (as it should be for PC3500), and since SPD doesn't detect correct timings, or even what model RAM I'm using, I disabled it, and have manual settings on. I tried everything to get good timings, cuz my RAM should perform a lot better than it currently does. I'm not a pro @ OC'ing so maybe I did something wrong. I tried increasing the voltage of the RAM (to all possible voltages that my mobo supports, up to 2.85V) and fooled around with the timings. I SIMPLY CAN'T GET IT TO RUN @ CAS 2.0. The timings that I tried with all different voltages were: 2-2-2-5, 2-2-3-5, 2-2-3-7, 2-3-2-7, 2-3-3-7, 2-3-3-6.

Here's the link to where I bought the RAM from: http://www.hardcorecooling.us/product.asp?0=200&1=201&3=407

I've tried the DRAM Burst length @ 4 and 8, but I believe that for a P4, it should always be @ 8, right?

Once again, plz remember I'm a n00b and dunno about the rest of the BIOS settings. If someone has a P4C800 Deluxe, also (or P4C800-E), or at least knows what they're doing, plz tell me what settings I should try to set the following settings to (other than the one in the []'s), if I should change em at all:

Performance Acceleration Mode [Auto]
DRAM Idle Timer [Auto]
DRAM Refresh Mode [Auto]
Spread Apectrum [Enabled]
ICH Delayed Transaction [Enabled]
MPS Revision [1.1] (other choice: 1.4 or 1.5, not sure which)

If you need to know any other BIOS settings or options for specific settings, I'll be more than happy to give em to ya. PLEASE help. I've posted this on the ArsTechnia forums, without much success.

Also, if you feel that there really isn't much I can do, and I should just return the RAM, plz tell me if I should just exchange it for WinBond BH5 RAM, or get a different brand for $240 (1GB), like Kingston HyperX PC3500 or something. Thanks a lot!

 

[wicktron]

865/875 *HATE* the Winbond CH-5. They work decently on AMD systems, but do not hold tight timings at high FSB.
You should actually RMA that RAM because they say that it should do 2-2-2-5 at DDR433/PC3500, whereas yours does not.

 

[RalfHutter]

Actually, if you'd read the posts at Ars you would have seen that you already got the same advice over there, at least twice that I remember, as you just got here: RMA the RAM if it won't run at advertised speed. As you have also been told at ARS, CH-5 chips and 875/865 boards aren't the happiest combination. Those chipsets are pretty picky about RAM and some people will have great luck with a particular type of RAM on their board and the next guy won't be able to get that same RAM to work well on the exact same model on board.

Here's a sample of the advice that you got at Ars, I suspect you'll end up getting basically the same advice here too:

"if your pc3500 won't run over pc3200 speeds, it's time for an rma."

and this:

"You may find that your benches will be even better with relaxed memory timings, and then overclocking by pushing the fsb speed."

another:

"As above, P4s seem to like fsb more than tight memory timings, for overall benchmarks. Unless of course, your focus is the best memory benches."

and more:

"Very, very few 875/865 boards will run at 2-2-2 timings. 2-3-2 timings are the best you can realistically expect from damn near any DDR400+ RAM on these boards.

Another problem that you're up against is that CH-5 chips don't play too well with the 865/875 boards either. BH-5's are much easier to run at higher speeds and tighter timings.

A lot of these boards (or more acurately, BIOSes) seem to have a hard time detecting the programmed SPD settings. I've put the same stick of DDR400 RAM on an Intel, Asus and Albatron board and each has detected different "default" SPD settings. Go figure. The safest thing to do with brand new RAM and an 865/875 board seems to be to boot right into the BIOS and manually set the timings.

From all the messing around I've done with 865/875 boards I'd suggest that the best stable RAM timings you'll get will probably be 2-3-2-6. You may not even get that good with your CH-5 RAM but very few boards will get better than 2-3-2-6 with any RAM."

here's more:

"Those timings you are trying to run seem awfully tight for the RAM speed. I don't think there is PC3500 than can do it's rated FSB at 2-2-2-5. If this is what WinBond stated your RAM should run at, try to get an RMA. "

and one last one:

"if it won't run at rated speed at stock voltage, rma."

 

[shleepy]

LOL, it's not that the Ars guy weren't useful, I love the Ars guys. It's just that none of them suggested changing other settings in BIOS... that's why I came here

Also, 2-3-3-7 is what I'd consider a "relaxed" timing

OK, so I guess it IS time for an RMA. Should I attempt to exchange this RAM for BH5, or does that work badly on P4C800's, too? If so, what RAM should I get? Kingston HyperX PC3500? Plz note that my budget is about $240 for 1GB.

 

[RalfHutter]

I'd certainly try and fine some quality RAM with BH-5 chips, that should give you a better chane of running tighter timings with your board. I'd also check out the P4C800-D sticky here and the giant P4C800-D thread at Asusboards forums and see what RAM people are having the best luck with. Even at that, like I stated above, "Those chipsets are pretty picky about RAM and some people will have great luck with a particular type of RAM on their board and the next guy won't be able to get that same RAM to work well on the exact same model on board."

 

[Soulkeeper]

I have a gig of the same memory and until I got better cooling in my system it seemed like lowering the vdimm would make the mem run faster
I also took off the mem heatspreaders (which voids warranty)
but yeah i've read the winbond tech sheets for the bh-5 chips and they are rated to like 3.2 or 3.3 volts
so long as you got the right cooling i don't see any problem with high vdimms
i believe mushkin recommends not going over 2.75v tho
i usually run the voltage at the lowest I can while still keeping the memory fully stable at the speed I am trying for

that mem should run at 2-2-2-6 mine does even at really low voltages
i noticed next to no overclocking headroom as a result of lowering the latencies while I was playing with this mem

also try switching in one mem stick at a time
maybe try another slot for one of them


good luck


edit:
oops just noticed you said ch-5 and not bh-5

 

[jiffylube1024]

Originally posted by: Soulkeeper

edit:
oops just noticed you said ch-5 and not bh-5

Yep. Big difference there. I have one stick of each (512MB of BH5, 512MB of CH5) in an IC7 (875 chipset). The BH5 runs great well above 250 FSB. The CH5 cannot get into Windows at anything above 250 FSB.

 

[Duvie]

Originally posted by: RalfHutter
I'd certainly try and fine some quality RAM with BH-5 chips, that should give you a better chane of running tighter timings with your board. I'd also check out the P4C800-D sticky here and the giant P4C800-D thread at Asusboards forums and see what RAM people are having the best luck with. Even at that, like I stated above, "Those chipsets are pretty picky about RAM and some people will have great luck with a particular type of RAM on their board and the next guy won't be able to get that same RAM to work well on the exact same model on board."

OK...So the question is how am I supposed to tell what uses ch-5 chips??? Most if not all retailers do not list this and ram webpages often do not list this as well....

 

[jiffylube1024]

Originally posted by: Duvie

Originally posted by: RalfHutter
I'd certainly try and fine some quality RAM with BH-5 chips, that should give you a better chane of running tighter timings with your board. I'd also check out the P4C800-D sticky here and the giant P4C800-D thread at Asusboards forums and see what RAM people are having the best luck with. Even at that, like I stated above, "Those chipsets are pretty picky about RAM and some people will have great luck with a particular type of RAM on their board and the next guy won't be able to get that same RAM to work well on the exact same model on board."

OK...So the question is how am I supposed to tell what uses ch-5 chips??? Most if not all retailers do not list this and ram webpages often do not list this as well....

I would try emailing the manufacturer/reseller. Tell them you have an 865/875 chipset and that it does NOT work with CH5 chips, so you want to make sure it uses anything but those.

 

[RalfHutter]

Originally posted by: Duvie

Originally posted by: RalfHutter
I'd certainly try and fine some quality RAM with BH-5 chips, that should give you a better chane of running tighter timings with your board. I'd also check out the P4C800-D sticky here and the giant P4C800-D thread at Asusboards forums and see what RAM people are having the best luck with. Even at that, like I stated above, "Those chipsets are pretty picky about RAM and some people will have great luck with a particular type of RAM on their board and the next guy won't be able to get that same RAM to work well on the exact same model on board."

OK...So the question is how am I supposed to tell what uses ch-5 chips??? Most if not all retailers do not list this and ram webpages often do not list this as well....

Unfortunately CH-5's are way more common than the discontinued BH-5's. There's not much RAM that still uses the BH-5's these days. Mushkin Level II is the only RAM that's guaranteed to use these chips and Buffalo PC3700's been using them but there's no guarantee that they'll coninue to use them as supplies of the chips dwindle. jiffylube1024 has the right idea but even that would only go so far. Many manufacturers use whatever they can get their hands on and once it's buried under a fancy-a$$ed heat spreader nobody knows what chips are under there.