Win98SE + (i845E, AbitBD7 II, Pentium4) - an impossible combination ?

[helveteshovedkort]

Not sure whether this is a hardware problem or not, shouldn't be but...

Have been trying for a few weeks now, to get win98SE installed properly, including drivers for VGA, sound, mouse (for now...).
BUT there ALWAYS seems that something is wrong or unstable.

Setup(all items brand new):
P4 1600A
AbitBD7 II (i845E)
2x WD 80GB HDD
Asus V8440 GF4 Ti4400 TD
Hercules GT XP sound
2x Samsung 256mb PC2700 (DTL)
Enermax 431W PSU
Plextor 40/12/40 CDRW

and the other basic stuff...

CPUtemp = Systemtemp = ca 43C, mostly, as read by the Abit bios. Ambient = 20-25C.
Volts look 'normal', have even upped Vcore by 5%, just in case.

NOT overclocked at all now, but tried at first an Win98 install at 155mhz FSB (FAT16), which went quite well, except for some of the following.
But that was loong time ago, all these symptoms also occur at default. Have reformatted several times since then, even changed between FAT16 and FAT32 and back... doesn't seem to matter at all...

Symptoms:
- rundll32.exe does not run at all, installing programs etc gets messed up (i.e. cant install new intellipoint mouse driver)
- rundll32.exe starts 2 instances at the same time, particulary when having a few systray programs that is due to be loaded at boot to desktop, leads to hangups, have to restart
- even seen systray.exe start up twice
All this is seen when pressing ctrl+alt+del


- at boot to desktop, suddenly not finding the soundcard anymore
- once even registry errors occured, prompting windows to try to re-install backups several times (granted, that was after I became rather pissed off, and was just messing with the FSB and cpu:mem divider to get DDR at 400mhz, at 1:1 I can get into desktop at 166FSB ! )

(Additionally, there's this '? unknown device' called 'PCI Universal Serial Bus', that seems to originate from the southbridge, according to Wcpuid.
Guess that is the result of win98SE not supporting USB2.0, and no way of turning it off/adjusting level in bios, as Intel website suggests.
Oh well... )

What I do:
- install win98SE, no problems here
- install Intel .inf drivers for the chipset (ver 4.00.1013) - some times I get prompted to restart again, after the first time round, but BEFORE reaching desktop, and usually this ends in an error message after reboot, saying something about not able to install som intelinf file from the Temp catalogue...
- install nvidia referance drivers - no problems installing

already here, no rundll32 ...
-trying the intellipoint 4.0 mousdriver, no luck, error with not finding the install program, after almost completed the installation, my guess is the missing rundll32 (?)
- Hercules driver, ver 4.10xx, seems ok

In my experience, rundll32 SHOULD always run when some other programs are up, and then with only one instance.
I actually managed to get to that point, once(!), but after some testing with other stuff, I installed win98 again, and haven't seen it since.... no matter order of installation, reformatting, you name it...

On my 'old' machine (most parts from Nov-98, AbitBH6+Celeron566@850) no such problems at all. After re-installing that is.

Is there a patch for this somehwere, havent seen one on MSpages, but... ?
Any special setting in the bios I've overlooked ? Chipset getting too hot ? IDE controller gone haywire ?
Or is Pentium4 just TOO FAST for the old ah heck ?
No point in DOWNclocking (FSB at 66mhz LOL) , since it would be just as unstable when I get back up and start using the programs...or(?)

There just don't seem to be ANY system to this madness, and if I have to re-install too many times more now, I'll just gonna puke, literally....

Guess I'll try to call microsoft some time...

PS: this is with an non-english version of Win98SE, if it matters.

 

[NOX]

I had this same problem a long time ago on with my Athlon 1200 and Win98SE. Every time I restarted my comp I would get a error booting up. Later I found out my comp was shutting down to quickly, and not giving Win98SE time to cache files on my hard drive (or something to that affect). I upgraded to Win2k and never experienced anything like that again.

 

[bot2600]

There is actually a file on Windows update to correct the IDE problem. You may also want to check in your BIOS and disable Hyperthreading until you get everything installed and see if that helps.

Bot

 

[WarCon]

YGPM,

I forgot to add the order I install in.

Chipset,
video,
sound,
modem,
nic,
any other peripheral, then
new I.E.
directx
setup internet account
then windows update.

But maybe you better download the shutdown patch and run it before you even install the chipset driver.

........................edit.......................
Here is the link.

 

[Buk]

Are you doing your install with all devices (vid, sound, modem, etc) in your comp? Remove everything but your vid card. Reformat and install W98SE. Install any W98SE updates you can find on the Windows site. Then install chipset drivers, then vid drivers & DirectX. Then add your cards one at a time, let Windows detect and install drivers. Just a suggestion.....................

 

[helveteshovedkort]

Thanks you all for your vauluable tips and info !

An update:

A friend of mine(technician) took the mboard to his house, and did several tests, including several installs of win98. Looked fine to him. So we reassembled my machine, and seems a bit better now. (I even taped the case'studs' the mboard is resting on, with insulation tape, just in case...).

Tried at first without both the shutdown patch and the HDD cache fix, not sure, but that did not seem to be the problem, even after numerous re-boots. Only item in the box besides MBoard, CPU, mem, HDD, CDdrive and floppy was the VGA card... (+integrated network and sound-disabled in bios)

FYI: the unknown PCI device must in fact be the USB 2.0 controller, as my friend installed the WinXP version of USB2.0 drivers (not recommended?) and it went away... (not installed now)

The double rundll32 seems now to only occur at serious overclocking, and (begs for mercy... ) I may have had wrong expectations concerning WHEN the rundll32 actually should run, comparing to my older pc.

It has not been up for long (since yesterday) so I can't be conclusive about this, may well be some snags ahead... But at least I don't dream of the wrethced thing at night anymore (well, a little maybe, but... )

We even tried with 3(three)x256MB of memory, without any altering to the 'maxmemsize' value (as suggested on M$ help pages), and still no crashes... strange, as 512 should be max for win98(?)

- bot2600; that 'Hyperthreading' you're talking about, is there another word/setting for it, cant find it in the bios (but then again, this IS my first time building stuff)

BTW, still havent installed the 'nic' (integrated network card ?) drivers.

And once again, thanks !

*

--- The following is just some minor ranting, just ignore :

But when we finally thought everything to be ok, suddenly it doesn't 'find' the monitor(tries to reinstall drivers every boot up), for cryin' out loud...urggh... Even when re-applying the DriveImage backup we so wisely had made right after win98 install(with vga and mon.drivers installed, mind you), no good.

Not stable, but that might as well be the monitor cable... After a few tries with the backup CD, it works, even though the device mangager has two instances of that specific monitor, which when clicking the 'update' button turns out to be one 'Standard' and one specific (as would be normal)... happens everytime I restart. Have turned off 'check for PlugAndPlay devices' on the monitor properties (or something, translating from Viking language here...).

On another matter, at 2,7(2,65)volt the Samsung DTL(both homepage and invoice says CTL, should I complain ?) still wont do over 180/360mhz, and only reason for buying was I wanted 3:4 150:400 (CPUfsb:MEM) ... arrgh Manual timings at 2 6 3 3, not sure what combination would be best ?

The CPU, though, way over expectations, runs 2656@166mhz FSB stock cooling(but I guess that is not 100% stable, volt readings in bios of 1,63-1,65, need moore?)
So, what is best, high CPU or semihigh CPU and high MEM speed ?
(my alternatives beiing FSB@139 with 3:4 ratio, or FSB@150+++, 1:1 ratio)

 

[Nothinman]

Similar anecdotes are why I never recommend installing Win98. If you must use Windows use Win2K or XP, Win98 and it's kind need to be left in the past with the rest of everything legacy.

 

[helveteshovedkort]

Well, I have a fondness for the 'past', i.e. I want my OLD games to run as they used to, emulation mode aside.... Yeah, I know, nostalgia etc, but some are pretty good as well...

So am willing to try some serious coaching of win98 before going through testing all my games for which ones that wont run on WinXP. Going to buy it anyway, when the service pack is out , dual boot...

On that note, would there be any issues when trying the following setup ? :
- C:\win98se , primary partion
- C:\WinXP, also primary partition, but hidden for the moment

Idea is to get a boot program that de-/activates the primary, so I can choose the boot OS.
Then making DriveImages of each drive, in case something goes wrong.

BUT, there's the MBR(MasterBootRecord)... If both 'partitions' screws up, I would still be able to restore from the backups, and everything would be back to normal ?
Or will XP still be able to see the hidden C:\win98 partition, and mess up things, f ex the MBR ?

Any other potential dangers here ?
I could always go for the C\win98 + D\winXP solution, or even C\nothing+D\win98+E\winXP, but have already win98 semi-working on C\ as it is... And to my layman eye, the dual C:\ option seemed 'safer' if I had to restore.

And, considering the above, what would be the BEST solution (non-win98 is NOT an option ! )


PS: I have an old DOS machine that's still working ...just letting you know how old fashioned i REALLY am...

 

[Nothinman]

Install XP on an NTFS partition and Win9X don't even see it, the only problem would be XP seeing the Win9X partition and using it's Program Files directory or something stupid.

No partitions are truly hidden, it just adds 10 to the partition type in the partition table and most ignore them cause they don't know what it is, and I can't say for sure if XP does that or tries to be smart and checks the filesystem type manually.

 

[randypj]

helveteshovedkort--I've run into the multiple monitor thing at work numerous times, in W9x.

Try booting into safe mode and delete any duplicate or old devices from Device Mangler. Heck, I've seen as many as 4 monitors, 3 extra hard drives, etc. in safe mode, Device Mangler. Sometimes, if it shows like 4 of the same item, I just delete them all, and let it refind stuff.

Try deleting all the monitors from Mangler in safe mode, do a full shutdown, when it prompts you for the new monitor.

I dunno if you've tried it, but you can delete one of the registry enums, and it will delete all the items in Mangler, and force W98 to refind everything. Before you do it, be sure you have all current drivers handy.

Going by memory only.......it seems like it is Enum, under HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE. But, verify that I'm correct on this first.

Also, I've had the best luck if, when W9x installs new devices/drivers, and prompts me to "restart", if I do a full shutdown/start, rather than a restart.

Sorry.....been a couple years since I've used W9x. No way I'd go back to it after W2K.
--Randy

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

I had similar problems, WHEN I OVERCLOCKED TOO HIGH!!! default speeds buddy and see if it all works.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Sudheer Anne
I had similar problems, WHEN I OVERCLOCKED TOO HIGH!!! default speeds buddy and see if it all works.

It really helps to read the poster's thread. Aren't you the guy in GH that was caught making up false stories about the Epox MB you claimed you had and never did?

FROM THE ORIGINAL POST:

NOT overclocked at all now, but tried at first an Win98 install at 155mhz FSB (FAT16), which went quite well, except for some of the following.
But that was loong time ago, all these symptoms also occur at default. Have reformatted several times since then, even changed between FAT16 and FAT32 and back... doesn't seem to matter at all...

I'd definitely try another O/S just to see if there is some other (deeper) problem. Perhaps a piece of hardware is defective try switching out the 1 stick of 256 RAM with the other. I figured out a similar problem with a friends system that was driving him up the wall. It turned out his RAM was defective AND there was a problem with his videocard.

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

well at least my computer works.....

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Sudheer Anne
well at least my computer works.....

So you claim.



Howz the progress goin' on the 98 system, helveteshovedkort?
Let us know if you get it solved.