I don't think I have a virus since I checked that with Norton 2000 Antivirus. I have had WIN2K installed for about 6 months now and it seems to have explorer crash all the time now (about 1 once a day but I leave computer on all the time). It's really annoying since I have to reboot and I lose all the systray icon and cannot bring those applications to the front. I'm wondering if the BSOD's I received infrequently over the last 6 months, such as using Adaptec EZ CD Creator 4.02c software and some other software (Diablo II, etc.) have somehow corrupted the system files or registry or something about the way explorer works. This system has been stable for over a year now hardware-wise (especially under NT4). Is WIN2K like WIN98 in that it requires an OS reinstall every 3 to 6 months becase the OS becomes corrupted beyond being fixed by SFC? I ahve the latest drivers for everything. Also, I haven't run sfc for WIN2K ever. I feel that if I run it I am going to replace the SP1 and critical update files that should be the newer version with the "bugged" original version. Is this true? Should I run SFC? Or do I just reinstall the OS (a real pain in the arse)?
WIN2K --> Explorer crashes all the time... HELP! SFC Question too...
- Thread starter |TOAST|
- Start date
do a win2k repair, bott useing the boot disks and it will ask you if you want to repair your existing win2k installation, beats installing again. if prolems continue i would try uninstalling adaptec ezcd creator and try using cleansweep to do a registry sweep and delete any unneed reg entries. good luck
looooo
looooo
One more thing. I let Dr. Watson run so as to record the problem. Where can I go to look at what caused the problem? Is it in Event Viewer? I don't see it there.
What is cleansweep? A registry editing program embedded within WIN2K or a third party software? Won't doing that repair revert my computer to the old system files that need to be updated in Critical Updates and SP1?
EDITED for spelling
EDITED for spelling
sorry toast was away for abit...cleasweep is a nortons software that will detect and ask you if ytou want to delete certain redundant files and such..nifty little program if you want to spend the cash on it. im not sure where you can see the logs of the dr watson stuff...sorry
looo
looo
Maybe... I'll have to try that... forgot about that option seeing as "Log Off" is not on the start menu... guess i'll just have to enable that feature. Thanks.
I still want to know about using SFC. I'm confused as to whether it updates the newer files that have been corrected in updates or not.
I still want to know about using SFC. I'm confused as to whether it updates the newer files that have been corrected in updates or not.
My Explorer also crashes uner W2K but not to the extent of once a day. Probably once a month or so. But whenever that happens W2K always reloads every single systray icons and the system seemed stable to be used without the need for a reboot. I was actually surprised when that happens as under W98 whenever Explorer crashes you will always have to hit that reset button ^^
The System File Checker in W2K is different from the version in Win9X. Unless you have disabled it, it actually runs at every boot. Windows and Office Service Packs change the Windows File Protection database and place updated file copies in the DLL cache so that the baseline authorized file complement is changed to reflect the Service Pack. Hotfixes, however, can wind up having their new files replaced, and, if changes are made to the system following a hotfix, it is recommended that the hotfix be reapplied.
You might also try updating that Adaptec software. Latest version is 4.03 for EasyCD Creator and 3.03 for DirectCD.
Others were correct about the log off / logon cycle. That should restore any systray items that don't get restored during the Explorer restart. (Interestingly, in my experience the processes represented by the missing systray icons are usually still running. It's just that the control applet icons are simply not available in systray.)
I was having this issue with some frequency a couple of months back. It appears that some Windows update (or another update like the Adaptec software update) may have cured it. Have you noticed whether or not there is a particular tendency for this to happen when you've started a processor / disk intensive process and then quickly gone to the Start menu? That's how my system was behaving before its sudden and mysterious improvement.
Regards,
Jim
You might also try updating that Adaptec software. Latest version is 4.03 for EasyCD Creator and 3.03 for DirectCD.
Others were correct about the log off / logon cycle. That should restore any systray items that don't get restored during the Explorer restart. (Interestingly, in my experience the processes represented by the missing systray icons are usually still running. It's just that the control applet icons are simply not available in systray.)
I was having this issue with some frequency a couple of months back. It appears that some Windows update (or another update like the Adaptec software update) may have cured it. Have you noticed whether or not there is a particular tendency for this to happen when you've started a processor / disk intensive process and then quickly gone to the Start menu? That's how my system was behaving before its sudden and mysterious improvement.
Regards,
Jim
I have noticed that the programs are still running but I for some reason am unable to restore the GUI to shutdown Battle.Net bots or take ICQ messages when they come in, ect. This definitely happens after or while burning CD's (not all the time - guess I need the newer versions). I have noticed the same thing with large disk accessing (whatever programs it maybe) and clicking any shortcut (start menu, desktop, or otherwise). I have also noticed this behavior occuring due to other random sequences of actions performed as well such as just exiting large disk accessing programs (Diskeeper 5.3, etc.) but not occuring as often and reliably as the shortcut problem.
So you are in effect saying that I need not run "SFC /scannow" with the WIN2K CD in the drive since it updates the files back to SP1 on its own at boot up. So "SFC /scannow" is effectively a useless thing to run, correct? Then where can I get a list of hotfixes since SP1 to reinstall? Just look at the critical updates that have been installed onteh windows update site? Thanks.
So you are in effect saying that I need not run "SFC /scannow" with the WIN2K CD in the drive since it updates the files back to SP1 on its own at boot up. So "SFC /scannow" is effectively a useless thing to run, correct? Then where can I get a list of hotfixes since SP1 to reinstall? Just look at the critical updates that have been installed onteh windows update site? Thanks.
I've been experiencing that problem recently and think it may have something to do with my BIOS.
Hi, |TOAST|
I feel inadequate to properly describe all of the pertinent features of Windows File Protection and the System File Checker in messages. I'd highly recommend the articles availabe in the MSKB on this topic. They're among the most informative and clearly written MSKB articles I've read. I've mucked about with several of the options in WFP, but I think the default settings for Windows 2000 are really the best for most people. I once blew away the protected file cache, then restored it with the appropriate options -- just for the experience. Due to the effectiveness of the default file protection scheme, most of the file complement is not really vulnerable any more, with the exception of some ODBC components -- which were excluded from protection for heaven knows what purpose. I think the part of the system most vulnerable to install routines nowadays is obviously the registry.
I didn't mean to suggest that any of the post-SP1 hotfixes would actually have anything to do with addressing your issues with explorer crashes. I only mentioned them because hotfixes do get "downgraded" when a system change is applied as opposed to the intended behavior of WFP with Service Packs which is to keep the SP level intact with system changes. Perhaps you might find something applicable if you went to the Microsoft Windows 2000 Downloads site and went through the descriptions of the hotfixes available there. (It does take a while for some of them to trickle down to the Windows Update site.)
I think it's entirely possible that updating the Adaptec CD writing software might help. I know that DirectCD give explorer quite a workout. Maybe it gives explorer too much of a workout. I'm sure that I've read at the Adaptec / Roxio site that some of the issues fixed in the latest versions of the software have had to do with explorer problems, though I'm not certain that they were talking about crashes.
BTW, I do see, now that you've mentioned what particular systray items are concerning you, why logging off and logging on again isn't a fix for you. You'd lose your connections, however briefly. Coping with that might get to be a bit annoying after a while.
If you think about it, that is a fairly impressive set of concurrent processes to be running -- considering the resources required for writing CDs. I run a great many simultaneous processes on my notebook under W2K, and I suffer perhaps one explorer crash a week now. I was seeing explorer crashes several times a day. They never affected the system's stability, but I did lose an icon or two in the Systray, as reported before. However, I never lost any communications functions at these times. I did lose the DirectCD icon, interestingly enough, along with a PGP controller icon. It was no hardship doing without either of them until such time as it was convenient to log off and on again.
I wish I could isolate the change(s) in my system that resulted in the greatly lowered frequency of explorer crashes. It did happen somewhere around the time I installed the latest Adaptec software update and SP2 for Office 2000. Since the problem was always intermittent, I didn't take notice that explorer crashes had become infrequent (and IE crashes unheard of) until several days had passed.
I hope you get it sorted out. And I hope you'll let us know how things are going.
Regards,
Jim
I feel inadequate to properly describe all of the pertinent features of Windows File Protection and the System File Checker in messages. I'd highly recommend the articles availabe in the MSKB on this topic. They're among the most informative and clearly written MSKB articles I've read. I've mucked about with several of the options in WFP, but I think the default settings for Windows 2000 are really the best for most people. I once blew away the protected file cache, then restored it with the appropriate options -- just for the experience. Due to the effectiveness of the default file protection scheme, most of the file complement is not really vulnerable any more, with the exception of some ODBC components -- which were excluded from protection for heaven knows what purpose. I think the part of the system most vulnerable to install routines nowadays is obviously the registry.
I didn't mean to suggest that any of the post-SP1 hotfixes would actually have anything to do with addressing your issues with explorer crashes. I only mentioned them because hotfixes do get "downgraded" when a system change is applied as opposed to the intended behavior of WFP with Service Packs which is to keep the SP level intact with system changes. Perhaps you might find something applicable if you went to the Microsoft Windows 2000 Downloads site and went through the descriptions of the hotfixes available there. (It does take a while for some of them to trickle down to the Windows Update site.)
I think it's entirely possible that updating the Adaptec CD writing software might help. I know that DirectCD give explorer quite a workout. Maybe it gives explorer too much of a workout. I'm sure that I've read at the Adaptec / Roxio site that some of the issues fixed in the latest versions of the software have had to do with explorer problems, though I'm not certain that they were talking about crashes.
BTW, I do see, now that you've mentioned what particular systray items are concerning you, why logging off and logging on again isn't a fix for you. You'd lose your connections, however briefly. Coping with that might get to be a bit annoying after a while.
If you think about it, that is a fairly impressive set of concurrent processes to be running -- considering the resources required for writing CDs. I run a great many simultaneous processes on my notebook under W2K, and I suffer perhaps one explorer crash a week now. I was seeing explorer crashes several times a day. They never affected the system's stability, but I did lose an icon or two in the Systray, as reported before. However, I never lost any communications functions at these times. I did lose the DirectCD icon, interestingly enough, along with a PGP controller icon. It was no hardship doing without either of them until such time as it was convenient to log off and on again.
I wish I could isolate the change(s) in my system that resulted in the greatly lowered frequency of explorer crashes. It did happen somewhere around the time I installed the latest Adaptec software update and SP2 for Office 2000. Since the problem was always intermittent, I didn't take notice that explorer crashes had become infrequent (and IE crashes unheard of) until several days had passed.
I hope you get it sorted out. And I hope you'll let us know how things are going.
Regards,
Jim
Hey Jim,
Many thanks for the time to write such an informative letter/post here.
I feel that I might be taxing my system. Here's what I run in systray and here's my system specs. I believe that I am not taxing it (but maybe a few hours a day at Diablo 2 is). Now I know you may say overclocking is bad and is the cause of my problems considering a BX board should never be run this high in terms of bus speed and not having the correct dividers for the slots (AGP/PCI/ISA), but mind you that I have run this: system under WIN98SE and NT4 SP5&6A for 6 months without crashing at all!!! This may seem impossible considring I have never run WIN98SE without crashing/reinstalling OS every 1-3 months on systems both overclocked and clocked to specs. I install it from the hardrive (xcopy WIN98 folder to directory I make in DOS and run setup.exe). I couldn't believe it myself. I admit, I tax WIN98SE more than should be ever possible, which is why I converted to making a dual boot to NT4 years ago (hence going with WIN2K half a year after they iron out the initial kinks and problems with a SP). It wasn't until I converted/clean installed WIN2K and Adaptec's software on this system that these problems arose. I also experienced problems with the latest LNE100TX drivers from Linksys. I would get all kinds of BSOD's pointing to those driver files (unless WIN2K SFC's ndis.sys on boot up, in which case then both WIN2K and Linksys drivers are at fault -- but either way reverting back to the older drivers that came with the NIC card itself worked and seem to fix that problem which occured only when burning CD's or undergoing high volume transfers with NIC). Having said that, here is what I run in the systray.
1) Windows sound/volume mixer
2) Latest Intellimouse Explorer software for the extra 2 button programming
3) Adaptec Create a CD (only run this cause if I disable it for good and put a blank CD in I BSOD EVERY TIME!!!)
4) Adaptec Direct CD (can't make this go away except using the hide function in TrayIt!, probably should uninstall it since the program gets little use)
5) Distribute.net client (Go Team Anandtech!!)
6) Norton Antivirus 2000 autoprotect
7) Battle.net bot program (problem with explorer crashing is that I always lose this icon and I usually have ops for my channel and group of 30-60 friends I game with on occasion, when I lose this i have to actaully log onto Battle.net and command it to give ops to some other bot I trust -- this is by far one of the most annoying icons to lose -- could be that I hav to use TrayIt! in order to run this program in teh systray... maybe TrayIt! has some buggy registry entries... I doubt it though, yet all of the programs using TrayIt! disappear without fail everytime)
8) Eudora 4.3.2 (checks email everytime and had to be put in by TrayIt! so it disappears everytime explorer crashes too)
9) ICQ 2000b (this is annoying since it always disappears and is gone no matter what so I have to close program to see who's messaging... weird thing here is that this program is always installed to teh systray when run, so it for some reason is always not there and was not put in systray by TrayIt!)
10) Task manager (always running this to see if Distributed.net client is working properly)
Nubmers 1, 2, 5, and 10 from the list above never disappear when explorer crashes. The others always do and are unrecoverable.
My system:
P3 FC-PGA reatail Heat sink and fan (doesn't get hot at all... never over 90degreesF with voltage at 1.62V) 500E@750MHz (~250MHz over spec)
SOYO6BA+IV with onbaord ATA66 HPT366 controller
2x128MB Mushkin PC133 2-2-2 HSDRAM (certified 3-2-2 150MHz) RAM modules (~17MHz over spec)
ASUS V6800 Geforce DDR pure (AGP @ 100MHZ ~34MHz over spec)
Linksys LNE100TX 10/100 PCI NIC (running at 38MHz ~5MHz over spec)
Lucent Winmodem PCI (running at 38MHz ~5MHz over spec)
SB16 PnP Vibrax ISA (I have no idea how much this is running out of spec)
Quantum KX 20.5GB 7200rpm 512Kb cache (partitioned into two parts... WIN2K/programs OS part and file storage part, again no idea as to how much this is urnning out of spec)
Western Digital 20.5GB 7200rpm 2Mb cache (one big partition for file storage, again no idea as to how much this is running out of spec)
3.5" floppy drive
HP8100i IDE 4x2x34x CD burner (again no idea as to how much this is running out of spec)
Creative 32x CD ROM drive (again no idea as to how much this is running out of spec)
Sparkle 300 Watt Power supply (heaven forbid this is overclocked)
Enlight 7237 case (overclocked - J/K )
Iomega Zip Drive
IWILL Slotket II
The Quantum drive is master alone on addon onboard HPT366 ATA 66 controller card.
The Western Digital drive is master alone on addon onboard HPT366 ATA 66 controller card.
The HP8100i CD burner is master alone on onboard ATA33 controllers.
The Creative CD ROM is master with Zip drive slave on onboard ATA33 controller.
I tend to think that with these specs (and considering for other MS OS's this system is stable and for WIN2K it is not) taht I have a stable system taht is capable of handling the small taks I throw at it. I admit on boot up (which takes a while) that 110MB of RAM is being used (which seems like a great deal of space to me but just about right considering I have 256MB RAM).
So far so good with the Adaptec updates today. I'll let you know how it goes. Thanks Jim and everyone else for your insight.
Many thanks for the time to write such an informative letter/post here.
I feel that I might be taxing my system. Here's what I run in systray and here's my system specs. I believe that I am not taxing it (but maybe a few hours a day at Diablo 2 is). Now I know you may say overclocking is bad and is the cause of my problems considering a BX board should never be run this high in terms of bus speed and not having the correct dividers for the slots (AGP/PCI/ISA), but mind you that I have run this: system under WIN98SE and NT4 SP5&6A for 6 months without crashing at all!!! This may seem impossible considring I have never run WIN98SE without crashing/reinstalling OS every 1-3 months on systems both overclocked and clocked to specs. I install it from the hardrive (xcopy WIN98 folder to directory I make in DOS and run setup.exe). I couldn't believe it myself. I admit, I tax WIN98SE more than should be ever possible, which is why I converted to making a dual boot to NT4 years ago (hence going with WIN2K half a year after they iron out the initial kinks and problems with a SP). It wasn't until I converted/clean installed WIN2K and Adaptec's software on this system that these problems arose. I also experienced problems with the latest LNE100TX drivers from Linksys. I would get all kinds of BSOD's pointing to those driver files (unless WIN2K SFC's ndis.sys on boot up, in which case then both WIN2K and Linksys drivers are at fault -- but either way reverting back to the older drivers that came with the NIC card itself worked and seem to fix that problem which occured only when burning CD's or undergoing high volume transfers with NIC). Having said that, here is what I run in the systray.1) Windows sound/volume mixer
2) Latest Intellimouse Explorer software for the extra 2 button programming
3) Adaptec Create a CD (only run this cause if I disable it for good and put a blank CD in I BSOD EVERY TIME!!!)
4) Adaptec Direct CD (can't make this go away except using the hide function in TrayIt!, probably should uninstall it since the program gets little use)
5) Distribute.net client (Go Team Anandtech!!)
6) Norton Antivirus 2000 autoprotect
7) Battle.net bot program (problem with explorer crashing is that I always lose this icon and I usually have ops for my channel and group of 30-60 friends I game with on occasion, when I lose this i have to actaully log onto Battle.net and command it to give ops to some other bot I trust -- this is by far one of the most annoying icons to lose -- could be that I hav to use TrayIt! in order to run this program in teh systray... maybe TrayIt! has some buggy registry entries... I doubt it though, yet all of the programs using TrayIt! disappear without fail everytime)
8) Eudora 4.3.2 (checks email everytime and had to be put in by TrayIt! so it disappears everytime explorer crashes too)
9) ICQ 2000b (this is annoying since it always disappears and is gone no matter what so I have to close program to see who's messaging... weird thing here is that this program is always installed to teh systray when run, so it for some reason is always not there and was not put in systray by TrayIt!)
10) Task manager (always running this to see if Distributed.net client is working properly)
Nubmers 1, 2, 5, and 10 from the list above never disappear when explorer crashes. The others always do and are unrecoverable.
My system:
P3 FC-PGA reatail Heat sink and fan (doesn't get hot at all... never over 90degreesF with voltage at 1.62V) 500E@750MHz (~250MHz over spec)
SOYO6BA+IV with onbaord ATA66 HPT366 controller
2x128MB Mushkin PC133 2-2-2 HSDRAM (certified 3-2-2 150MHz) RAM modules (~17MHz over spec)
ASUS V6800 Geforce DDR pure (AGP @ 100MHZ ~34MHz over spec)
Linksys LNE100TX 10/100 PCI NIC (running at 38MHz ~5MHz over spec)
Lucent Winmodem PCI (running at 38MHz ~5MHz over spec)
SB16 PnP Vibrax ISA (I have no idea how much this is running out of spec)
Quantum KX 20.5GB 7200rpm 512Kb cache (partitioned into two parts... WIN2K/programs OS part and file storage part, again no idea as to how much this is urnning out of spec)
Western Digital 20.5GB 7200rpm 2Mb cache (one big partition for file storage, again no idea as to how much this is running out of spec)
3.5" floppy drive
HP8100i IDE 4x2x34x CD burner (again no idea as to how much this is running out of spec)
Creative 32x CD ROM drive (again no idea as to how much this is running out of spec)
Sparkle 300 Watt Power supply (heaven forbid this is overclocked)
Enlight 7237 case (overclocked - J/K
)Iomega Zip Drive
IWILL Slotket II
The Quantum drive is master alone on addon onboard HPT366 ATA 66 controller card.
The Western Digital drive is master alone on addon onboard HPT366 ATA 66 controller card.
The HP8100i CD burner is master alone on onboard ATA33 controllers.
The Creative CD ROM is master with Zip drive slave on onboard ATA33 controller.
I tend to think that with these specs (and considering for other MS OS's this system is stable and for WIN2K it is not) taht I have a stable system taht is capable of handling the small taks I throw at it. I admit on boot up (which takes a while) that 110MB of RAM is being used (which seems like a great deal of space to me but just about right considering I have 256MB RAM).
So far so good with the Adaptec updates today. I'll let you know how it goes. Thanks Jim and everyone else for your insight.
Hi, |TOAST| --
Well, that's certainly a capable system, and quite an interesting set of concurrent applications you have running on it.
I'm never surprised to hear that devices, or whole systems, that work under Win9X and NT4 aren't working in W2K. Most of it is device driver issues. And some of those do a damned fine job of masquerading as hardware failures. But some of it is due to the fact that this OS works the hardware harder than Win9X and NT4. It is simply much less tolerant of device response inconsistencies than any previous Windows OS. Of course overclocking is going to tend to exacerbate such issues. It could be that, once you have all of the device driver / software issues ironed out, this system will run reliably for you at your chosen warp speed.
I realize now that I simply didn't think of asking you if you were overclocking. Not very bright of me considering the board on which we're holding this conversation!
So, let me ask you -- did you try going back to stock speed, just to see if the behavior would change???
<me grins, ducks and runs>
I will be very interested to hear how you fare with the new Adaptec software. I have run both consistently without any functional issues whatsoever with the software itself. As I said before, it's possible that they MAY have contributed to the tendency of explorer to bring down the desktop fairly frequently, but those crashes have ceased. Whether that is due to the Adaptec software upgrade or the application of SP2 to Office 2000 (or even something else) I cannot say with any certainty.
I'll look forward to seeing the results of your experimentation.
Regards,
Jim
Well, that's certainly a capable system, and quite an interesting set of concurrent applications you have running on it.
I'm never surprised to hear that devices, or whole systems, that work under Win9X and NT4 aren't working in W2K. Most of it is device driver issues. And some of those do a damned fine job of masquerading as hardware failures. But some of it is due to the fact that this OS works the hardware harder than Win9X and NT4. It is simply much less tolerant of device response inconsistencies than any previous Windows OS. Of course overclocking is going to tend to exacerbate such issues. It could be that, once you have all of the device driver / software issues ironed out, this system will run reliably for you at your chosen warp speed.
I realize now that I simply didn't think of asking you if you were overclocking. Not very bright of me considering the board on which we're holding this conversation!
So, let me ask you -- did you try going back to stock speed, just to see if the behavior would change???
<me grins, ducks and runs>
I will be very interested to hear how you fare with the new Adaptec software. I have run both consistently without any functional issues whatsoever with the software itself. As I said before, it's possible that they MAY have contributed to the tendency of explorer to bring down the desktop fairly frequently, but those crashes have ceased. Whether that is due to the Adaptec software upgrade or the application of SP2 to Office 2000 (or even something else) I cannot say with any certainty.
I'll look forward to seeing the results of your experimentation.
Regards,
Jim
Hey Jay thanks for the help. So far NO crashes with the Adaptec Updates!!! YAY!!! I just got a new critical updates from Microsoft and after the update for the first time ever windows asked me for the CD to replace these files since it could not verify whether they were valid Microsoft files. I find that interesting considering this topic of discussion has led us to this point, and then that happens. If that same thing happens for you let me know so I'm not in dire need of an "SFC /scannow" command. By the way...I was replying to this when I decided to check for updates, so maybe that message comes up when you don't reboot right away? I don't know what brought on that message. Which brings me to my last question/point. Where do I get SP2 for Office 2000 Pro? Shouldn't it come up on the updates page? Thanks.
|TOAST|
I just got a new critical updates from Microsoft and after the update for the first time ever windows asked me for the CD to replace these files since it could not verify whether they were valid Microsoft files. I find that interesting considering this topic of discussion has led us to this point, and then that happens. If that same thing happens for you let me know so I'm not in dire need of an "SFC /scannow" command. By the way...I was replying to this when I decided to check for updates, so maybe that message comes up when you don't reboot right away? I don't know what brought on that message. Which brings me to my last question/point. Where do I get SP2 for Office 2000 Pro? Shouldn't it come up on the updates page? Thanks. |TOAST|
Hey, |TOAST|, good to hear from you!
>> Hey Jay thanks for the help. So far NO crashes with the Adaptec Updates!!! YAY!!! <<
You're welcome, and "yay" indeed!
>> I just got a new critical updates from Microsoft and after the update for the first time ever windows asked me for the CD to replace these files since it could not verify whether they were valid Microsoft files. I find that interesting considering this topic of discussion has led us to this point, and then that happens. If that same thing happens for you let me know so I'm not in dire need of an "SFC /scannow" command. By the way...I was replying to this when I decided to check for updates, so maybe that message comes up when you don't reboot right away? I don't know what brought on that message. Which brings me to my last question/point. Where do I get SP2 for Office 2000 Pro? Shouldn't it come up on the updates page? <<
Hmmm. If this happened following the installation of critical updates from the Windows Update site, then it sounds as though your dllcache may not be set up for full functionality under the Windows File Protection Scheme. This could happen if you made certain choices during the OS installation, and it can happen if you issue a "SFC /CANCEL" or "SFC /CACHESIZE=0" (or, perhaps, some restrictive number) command OR with certain registry tweaks. I think it would be presumptuous of me to suggest what you should do with your system in this matter. I happen to think this is the single most important directly user accessible functionality added between NT4 and W2K. I also think it should be set up or "tuned" to the particular needs of the system / user. I don't want to tell you to set your WFP system up a certain way that suits me but which conflicts with your useage patterns or system configuration. So, rather than suggest that you issue a specific command or set of commands or employ a specific registry setting, I'm going to suggest that you do some homework.
http://search.microsoft.com/us/SearchMS25.asp?so=RECCNT&qu=system%2520file%2520checker&qu=Windows+2000&boolean=ALL&i=00&i=02&i=04&i=06&i=08&i=01&i=03&i=05&i=07&i=09&p=1&nq=WITHIN&fqu=CHECKER%2526FILE%2526SYSTEM
Yup, that's all one "virtual" URL, including search terms for the MSKB. This will get you a list of articles and papers in the MSKB that pertain to Windows File Protection and the System File Checker under Windows 2000. The list of links will be of varying applicability to your situation and interests, but, in particular, I'd recommend
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q222/4/71.ASP
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q222/1/93.ASP
for information on the SFC and WFP, respectively. I highly recommend enabling SFC in either the "enable" or "scanboot" mode for the vast majority of users. If you should have any reason to suspect corruption or invalid components being present in the cache, you should probably perform the "purgecache" function before using "scannow". After that, assuming you don't restrict the cache, you should be able to perform updates and most configuration changes without need to resort to the W2K CD. Service Packs, as you probably know, get incorporated into the protection system / cache so they do not have to be reapplied following configuration changes, which was the case in NT4. I don't know if your W2K CD is W2K or W2K SP1. If it is not the latter, you might want to investigate the several threads around this forum somewhere that discuss the procedures used to build slipstreamed installation CDs or slipstreamed installation repositories on hard drives. There are also articles in the MSKB that deal with this information.
Whether or not you're in "dire need" of the "scannow" procedure, it won't hurt to use it. The only proviso there is that, if you've applied SP1 to the original W2K release but do not have the SP1 distribution set available for re-application AND, at the same time, WFP has been disabled and the cache eliminated or reduced, you will wind up with a non-SP1 installation of W2K, which you would want to update right away!
You said something in your message about not rebooting right away, I presume following an update. If that is so, then I say, "Naughty, naughty!" I cannot tell you how important it is to always end each new installation with AT LEAST a reboot. (Sometimes a full shutdown, then a subsequent restart is better.) My system configurations tend to be very complex so that building a new system is very time-consuming and is made more so by all of the rebooting, but I never violate this rule. If whatever I just did in the way of software installation alters the registry or the system file complement, I reboot. I never install several apps, and then reboot afterward. That's a no-no. I don't try to use the computer for a while afterward before rebooting, either. There are two exceptions to this: 1) Installation of an executable-only application or utility which resides entirely within its own directory and which does not write to the registry during installation does not require a reboot. 2) If the installation instructions (usually for multiple driver system like those required for multi-function PC Cards) specifically state that I am NOT to reboot between separate installation processes, then I'll wait until the entire set is done. (I will still reboot following the termination of the collective procedures, however, and I will make a note to at least temporarily despise the vendor for departing from the installation procedure norms. Are you listening, HP and Xircom???) Yes, there are certain types of configuration changes, like some networking settings, which can now be changed without a follow-up reboot, and many sysadmins are very grateful that the tiniest tweak in network settings on their servers no longer requires a reboot as it did under NT4. I reboot anyway. (Well, I might not reboot a server if it couldn't be spared at that very moment. But I get around to it ASAP.) On a workstation, IMHO, there's no excuse for not following a system configuration change or software or driver installation with a reboot. I do not like leaving unfinished business awaiting the next reboot and taking the chance that some additional unfinished business added later on will lead to conflict, and weeping and the gnashing of teeth. Sorry if this sermon is not necessary. I realize your remark may have been entirely innocent, but I just wanted to be sure that I made my views clear on this. (If anyone at all is interested!)
Finally, last point: you asked where SP2 for Office 2000 is.
http://officeupdate.microsoft.com/2000/downloadDetails/SP2upd.htm for English version of W2K
http://officeupdate.microsoft.com/2000/articles/O2Ksp2Intl.htm for Internation versions of W2K
I'm not sure what to tell you about this one. If your system is up and running happily, then you may not wish to fix what ain't broke. Given your experience and mine together, it begins to appear that the Adaptec software update is largely responsible for the improvement I saw, and that I hope you will continue to see, in Explorer behavior. I'd say you should read the information on the download page and the linked pages to see if you think that you should bother with it. I think the implementation of this "service pack" is kind of hokey, but it does address a few important (to some people) issues, including some security bug fixes which may be more important to corporate than to personal users. The install process of this "service pack" is a bit glitchy, though I've never seen it fail to complete. (You do have to excercise some patience on some machines on which the process appears to have stopped completely, with no continuing dialogs or cursor indications or hard drive activity, before it suddenly comes to life again and finishes the installation.) It also does not provide you with any clue in the Help|About screens of the concerned applications to indicate that you have, indeed, applied SP2 successfully. (They do give you a list of file versions you can check to confirm that you've applied it correctly. Why Microsoft can't be consistent about issues like this, or even the NAMING SCHEMES of software updates is beyond me. But they are improving over time.)
Hope this is useful.
Regards,
Jim
>> Hey Jay thanks for the help. So far NO crashes with the Adaptec Updates!!! YAY!!! <<
You're welcome, and "yay" indeed!
>> I just got a new critical updates from Microsoft and after the update for the first time ever windows asked me for the CD to replace these files since it could not verify whether they were valid Microsoft files. I find that interesting considering this topic of discussion has led us to this point, and then that happens. If that same thing happens for you let me know so I'm not in dire need of an "SFC /scannow" command. By the way...I was replying to this when I decided to check for updates, so maybe that message comes up when you don't reboot right away? I don't know what brought on that message. Which brings me to my last question/point. Where do I get SP2 for Office 2000 Pro? Shouldn't it come up on the updates page? <<
Hmmm. If this happened following the installation of critical updates from the Windows Update site, then it sounds as though your dllcache may not be set up for full functionality under the Windows File Protection Scheme. This could happen if you made certain choices during the OS installation, and it can happen if you issue a "SFC /CANCEL" or "SFC /CACHESIZE=0" (or, perhaps, some restrictive number) command OR with certain registry tweaks. I think it would be presumptuous of me to suggest what you should do with your system in this matter. I happen to think this is the single most important directly user accessible functionality added between NT4 and W2K. I also think it should be set up or "tuned" to the particular needs of the system / user. I don't want to tell you to set your WFP system up a certain way that suits me but which conflicts with your useage patterns or system configuration. So, rather than suggest that you issue a specific command or set of commands or employ a specific registry setting, I'm going to suggest that you do some homework.
http://search.microsoft.com/us/SearchMS25.asp?so=RECCNT&qu=system%2520file%2520checker&qu=Windows+2000&boolean=ALL&i=00&i=02&i=04&i=06&i=08&i=01&i=03&i=05&i=07&i=09&p=1&nq=WITHIN&fqu=CHECKER%2526FILE%2526SYSTEM
Yup, that's all one "virtual" URL, including search terms for the MSKB. This will get you a list of articles and papers in the MSKB that pertain to Windows File Protection and the System File Checker under Windows 2000. The list of links will be of varying applicability to your situation and interests, but, in particular, I'd recommend
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q222/4/71.ASP
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q222/1/93.ASP
for information on the SFC and WFP, respectively. I highly recommend enabling SFC in either the "enable" or "scanboot" mode for the vast majority of users. If you should have any reason to suspect corruption or invalid components being present in the cache, you should probably perform the "purgecache" function before using "scannow". After that, assuming you don't restrict the cache, you should be able to perform updates and most configuration changes without need to resort to the W2K CD. Service Packs, as you probably know, get incorporated into the protection system / cache so they do not have to be reapplied following configuration changes, which was the case in NT4. I don't know if your W2K CD is W2K or W2K SP1. If it is not the latter, you might want to investigate the several threads around this forum somewhere that discuss the procedures used to build slipstreamed installation CDs or slipstreamed installation repositories on hard drives. There are also articles in the MSKB that deal with this information.
Whether or not you're in "dire need" of the "scannow" procedure, it won't hurt to use it. The only proviso there is that, if you've applied SP1 to the original W2K release but do not have the SP1 distribution set available for re-application AND, at the same time, WFP has been disabled and the cache eliminated or reduced, you will wind up with a non-SP1 installation of W2K, which you would want to update right away!
You said something in your message about not rebooting right away, I presume following an update. If that is so, then I say, "Naughty, naughty!" I cannot tell you how important it is to always end each new installation with AT LEAST a reboot. (Sometimes a full shutdown, then a subsequent restart is better.) My system configurations tend to be very complex so that building a new system is very time-consuming and is made more so by all of the rebooting, but I never violate this rule. If whatever I just did in the way of software installation alters the registry or the system file complement, I reboot. I never install several apps, and then reboot afterward. That's a no-no. I don't try to use the computer for a while afterward before rebooting, either. There are two exceptions to this: 1) Installation of an executable-only application or utility which resides entirely within its own directory and which does not write to the registry during installation does not require a reboot. 2) If the installation instructions (usually for multiple driver system like those required for multi-function PC Cards) specifically state that I am NOT to reboot between separate installation processes, then I'll wait until the entire set is done. (I will still reboot following the termination of the collective procedures, however, and I will make a note to at least temporarily despise the vendor for departing from the installation procedure norms. Are you listening, HP and Xircom???) Yes, there are certain types of configuration changes, like some networking settings, which can now be changed without a follow-up reboot, and many sysadmins are very grateful that the tiniest tweak in network settings on their servers no longer requires a reboot as it did under NT4. I reboot anyway. (Well, I might not reboot a server if it couldn't be spared at that very moment. But I get around to it ASAP.) On a workstation, IMHO, there's no excuse for not following a system configuration change or software or driver installation with a reboot. I do not like leaving unfinished business awaiting the next reboot and taking the chance that some additional unfinished business added later on will lead to conflict, and weeping and the gnashing of teeth. Sorry if this sermon is not necessary. I realize your remark may have been entirely innocent, but I just wanted to be sure that I made my views clear on this. (If anyone at all is interested!)
Finally, last point: you asked where SP2 for Office 2000 is.
http://officeupdate.microsoft.com/2000/downloadDetails/SP2upd.htm for English version of W2K
http://officeupdate.microsoft.com/2000/articles/O2Ksp2Intl.htm for Internation versions of W2K
I'm not sure what to tell you about this one. If your system is up and running happily, then you may not wish to fix what ain't broke. Given your experience and mine together, it begins to appear that the Adaptec software update is largely responsible for the improvement I saw, and that I hope you will continue to see, in Explorer behavior. I'd say you should read the information on the download page and the linked pages to see if you think that you should bother with it. I think the implementation of this "service pack" is kind of hokey, but it does address a few important (to some people) issues, including some security bug fixes which may be more important to corporate than to personal users. The install process of this "service pack" is a bit glitchy, though I've never seen it fail to complete. (You do have to excercise some patience on some machines on which the process appears to have stopped completely, with no continuing dialogs or cursor indications or hard drive activity, before it suddenly comes to life again and finishes the installation.) It also does not provide you with any clue in the Help|About screens of the concerned applications to indicate that you have, indeed, applied SP2 successfully. (They do give you a list of file versions you can check to confirm that you've applied it correctly. Why Microsoft can't be consistent about issues like this, or even the NAMING SCHEMES of software updates is beyond me. But they are improving over time.)
Hope this is useful.
Regards,
Jim
Jim,
That was extremely useful and you have me thinking about reinstalling OS/software anyway. I would do that since I installed software such as Office 2000 and did not reboot (On the other hand I did reboot after all driver changes and network changes had been made, as an old network admin that much I knew). I unfortunately did not think about the effects of changing the registry within hardware non related programs such as Office2000, and not rebooting immediately afterward. I think if I do that I would be able do this correctly and have a stable and great OS. The only thing stopping me from doing that right now is the fact that (as is the case for you) my system takes forever to install just the way I want it to be done. I unfortunately do no have WIN2K with SP1 on it. So I guess I need to do some research as to how to do the SFC /Scannow without replacing the SP1 files. Is there a way to just reinstall SP1 afterward? Is there a downloadable setup.exe for that as there was for NT4? I just reinstalled SP's in NT4 whenever I made a change that made the OS unstable. Where can I check the options for SFC to see how it is protecting my system? I guess I could uninstall all the critical updates and SP1 and run SFC off the original cd and then run SP1 and the Critical Updates. I only did not reboot just to finish posting my last reply to this board... I know taht is bad but I thought maybe just this once I could get away with it... although it is funny that I have gotten away with all the other non rebooting crap I have dealt this machine. So, as they say: if it ain't broke don't fix it, but I never liked that saying because it doesn't take into account all the Anandtech Tweakers who just want to get it perfect On that note Ithink I'll wait for it to crash one more time before doing the drastic deed if I have time.
Also is there a way to obtain a copy of the CD with SP1 from Microsoft in exchange for the original CD?
Thanks again for the sermon... I found it rewarding and enjoyable since I am looking for my first job after college and hope to get into network administration or IT work. It brought back old network administration memories and thought processes I have forgot about since my internship 1.5 years ago.
That was extremely useful and you have me thinking about reinstalling OS/software anyway. I would do that since I installed software such as Office 2000 and did not reboot (On the other hand I did reboot after all driver changes and network changes had been made, as an old network admin that much I knew). I unfortunately did not think about the effects of changing the registry within hardware non related programs such as Office2000, and not rebooting immediately afterward. I think if I do that I would be able do this correctly and have a stable and great OS. The only thing stopping me from doing that right now is the fact that (as is the case for you) my system takes forever to install just the way I want it to be done. I unfortunately do no have WIN2K with SP1 on it. So I guess I need to do some research as to how to do the SFC /Scannow without replacing the SP1 files. Is there a way to just reinstall SP1 afterward? Is there a downloadable setup.exe for that as there was for NT4? I just reinstalled SP's in NT4 whenever I made a change that made the OS unstable. Where can I check the options for SFC to see how it is protecting my system? I guess I could uninstall all the critical updates and SP1 and run SFC off the original cd and then run SP1 and the Critical Updates. I only did not reboot just to finish posting my last reply to this board... I know taht is bad but I thought maybe just this once I could get away with it... although it is funny that I have gotten away with all the other non rebooting crap I have dealt this machine
. So, as they say: if it ain't broke don't fix it, but I never liked that saying because it doesn't take into account all the Anandtech Tweakers who just want to get it perfect On that note Ithink I'll wait for it to crash one more time before doing the drastic deed if I have time. Also is there a way to obtain a copy of the CD with SP1 from Microsoft in exchange for the original CD?
Thanks again for the sermon... I found it rewarding and enjoyable since I am looking for my first job after college and hope to get into network administration or IT work. It brought back old network administration memories and thought processes I have forgot about since my internship 1.5 years ago.
Howdy, |TOAST|
As long as the behavior of the system is okay now, I think you're really all right. If the system is okay operationally I really don't think there's an actual need to re-install. Of course, I always look at a re-install as a way to apply what I've learned since the last installation. But there are practical limits to this sort of behavior.
What happens when you run "sfc /scannow" will depend largely on the history of the machine and the current settings. It's really no big deal. As long as you can spare the time for re-installing SP1, you might as well go for it. But, instead of installing SP1 via the Windows Updates site, I'd suggest going to the corporate download site here, and grabbing the "Windows 2000 Service Pack 1 (1.13.113.0). Save that sucker to external media so that you have it if you ever have to install Windows 2000 again.
Alas, I don't know of any exchange program through which you may obtain W2K SP1 in exchange for the first gold release. Actually, I doubt that having a W2K SP1 CD entails much, if any, advantage over having the first version CD plus SP1, or a slipstreamed W2K SP1 version that you've created yourself.
If you do decide to do a clean re-install, remember thant any post-SP1 critical updates / hotfixes will have to be re-applied following the SP1 update, but the critical update and hotfixes included in SP1, obviously, do not have to be re-applied.
I hope I'm making sense. I'm an old guy, and it has been a long day. Got two old cats curled up on me while I type this, and my lady sleeping on the other couch. Hard to keep the wits alive and the peepers open in circumstances like this!
I hope your system just keeps cranking along. I think we must all remember, though, that it's all just a process and never a completed work. Perhaps not a pragmatic attitude for the accomplishment of work, but definitely a sanity saver.
Best regards,
Jim
As long as the behavior of the system is okay now, I think you're really all right. If the system is okay operationally I really don't think there's an actual need to re-install. Of course, I always look at a re-install as a way to apply what I've learned since the last installation. But there are practical limits to this sort of behavior.
What happens when you run "sfc /scannow" will depend largely on the history of the machine and the current settings. It's really no big deal. As long as you can spare the time for re-installing SP1, you might as well go for it. But, instead of installing SP1 via the Windows Updates site, I'd suggest going to the corporate download site here, and grabbing the "Windows 2000 Service Pack 1 (1.13.113.0). Save that sucker to external media so that you have it if you ever have to install Windows 2000 again.
Alas, I don't know of any exchange program through which you may obtain W2K SP1 in exchange for the first gold release. Actually, I doubt that having a W2K SP1 CD entails much, if any, advantage over having the first version CD plus SP1, or a slipstreamed W2K SP1 version that you've created yourself.
If you do decide to do a clean re-install, remember thant any post-SP1 critical updates / hotfixes will have to be re-applied following the SP1 update, but the critical update and hotfixes included in SP1, obviously, do not have to be re-applied.
I hope I'm making sense. I'm an old guy, and it has been a long day. Got two old cats curled up on me while I type this, and my lady sleeping on the other couch. Hard to keep the wits alive and the peepers open in circumstances like this!
I hope your system just keeps cranking along. I think we must all remember, though, that it's all just a process and never a completed work. Perhaps not a pragmatic attitude for the accomplishment of work, but definitely a sanity saver.
Best regards,
Jim
LOL, sorry to write this now but I just had this happen to me... playing Diablo2 after burning 3 data CD's (this is the second time this specific error has come up) and I BSOD with the error ointing to hal.dll. Now I know this could just be an error on the part of Blizzard and their programming but I think this may have something to do with DirectX8 being installed since that is the Hardware Abstraction Layer file... Sounds kind of fishy to me... Let me know what you think Jay. Reinstall?
BTW I have two cats (a fat one and a bag-o-bones one and a Great Dane that loves to play with them). Both cats think they own the property space of my lap and the dog thinks she owns my palms for petting her. I understand the type of night you were having. Cheers!
BTW I have two cats (a fat one and a bag-o-bones one and a Great Dane that loves to play with them). Both cats think they own the property space of my lap and the dog thinks she owns my palms for petting her. I understand the type of night you were having. Cheers!
Before I go to bed I would just like to let you know same error and same BSOD came up while playing Diablo2 again. Makes me think that this is a Blizzard problem. Damn! ;(
Hi, |TOAST|!
Well, shucks! Did you write down the exact contents of that BSOD? I've never seen one referencing the HAL DLL before. That's weird. If the game software installs a "driver", that could be at fault. Could be fixable, too. W2K does have some provisions for tweaking to allow use of local DLL versions for specific programs, for instance.
But you're right. W2K shouldn't be giving you BSODs. Diagnosing and fixing can be instructive, if you have the time. I like to "fix" a system, if I can, then go ahead and reformat / re-install just for good measure, if I'm not absolutely sure that the fix brings it to proper standards. But BSODs are no fun to endure. Are you using NTFS partition(s)? Those make BSODs easier to live with, from the standpoint of minimizing data loss.
I'll be back in a coupla hours.
Regards,
Jim
Well, shucks! Did you write down the exact contents of that BSOD? I've never seen one referencing the HAL DLL before. That's weird. If the game software installs a "driver", that could be at fault. Could be fixable, too. W2K does have some provisions for tweaking to allow use of local DLL versions for specific programs, for instance.
But you're right. W2K shouldn't be giving you BSODs. Diagnosing and fixing can be instructive, if you have the time. I like to "fix" a system, if I can, then go ahead and reformat / re-install just for good measure, if I'm not absolutely sure that the fix brings it to proper standards. But BSODs are no fun to endure. Are you using NTFS partition(s)? Those make BSODs easier to live with, from the standpoint of minimizing data loss.
I'll be back in a coupla hours.
Regards,
Jim
Jim,
Yes all three partitions are using NTFS and I think I would like to copy those errors down next time (I usually do tht but was in a hurry this time) and post them here see what you come up with and what het MSKB comes up with. I think there is no single entry in the MSKB referencing hal.dll, so this could be a tricky one. Waht do you think of DirectX8? Since currently no hardware supports it is it advantageous to just use 7a?
|TOAST|
Edited for Spelling
Yes all three partitions are using NTFS and I think I would like to copy those errors down next time (I usually do tht but was in a hurry this time) and post them here see what you come up with and what het MSKB comes up with. I think there is no single entry in the MSKB referencing hal.dll, so this could be a tricky one. Waht do you think of DirectX8? Since currently no hardware supports it is it advantageous to just use 7a?
|TOAST|
Edited for Spelling
With respect to DX8, I installed it immediately when it became available -- in keeping with my recent (since my introduction to Windows a year ago) desire to stay on the bleeding edge at all times! Seriously, I don't wait to see how other people do with anything. The very instant a new version of IE / DirectX / WMP or a service pack or service release or security update is available, I grab it and install it. So far, I seem to be having less trouble than most of the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" types!
Regards,
Jim
Regards,
Jim
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