Will you get a swine flu vaccination this Fall?

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surfsatwerk

Lifer
Mar 6, 2008
10,110
5
81
And this kind of paranoid fear of flu shots is what happens when schools don't educate their students properly in Biology and the Sciences. We're raising a population of idiots.
 

moshquerade

No Lifer
Nov 1, 2001
61,713
12
56

New York judge puts hold on mandatory flu shots

NEW YORK (CNN) -- A New York state Supreme Court judge Friday granted a temporary restraining order against a requirement that all health care workers in the state get H1N1 flu vaccinations.

The state health commissioner had said the workers had to be vaccinated against both seasonal and H1N1 flu by November 30 or risk disciplinary action.

The Public Employees Federation filed suit, and Judge Thomas McNamara on Friday granted the restraining order, which will be in effect at least until the State Supreme Court can review the case during a hearing scheduled for October 30.

In a news release, federation President Kenneth Brynien called the decision "a big step in the right direction."

Peter Banks, a council leader for the organization, added that its members "are not against the vaccination program; what we are against is the mandating, putting conditions of service over an unproven vaccine."

A state health department release said officials "are confident that the regulation will be upheld." It cited a 1990 court ruling that rejected health care workers' opposition to mandatory rubella vaccinations.

Banks noted that ruling "allows a philosophical or religious opt out," which he said is lacking in the emergency H1N1 regulation.

The Public Employees Federation is the second largest state employers union. It has 15,000 members who work in health care, approximately 5,000 of whom would be directly affected by the vaccination regulation.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH....york.vaccine.mandate/
 

fulltilt39

Golden Member
Aug 6, 2009
1,324
0
0
Originally posted by: Gibsons
Originally posted by: Raizinman
I won't be getting the H1N1 or Flue vaccination because:

1) How many government organized things really work correctly without consequences?

2) If everyone else gets the vaccination, I should be safe. Yes, this is a weak argument, but I know we all who don't get vaccinated think it.

3) Do you really know what is in this vaccination? It is a propietary shot with a patented formula. Sort of reminds me of the days of the HP propietary motherboards that were believed to handle everything, but couldn't do much of anything one thing very good.

4) Is it not possible that the flu or H1N1 vaccine company rushed their product to the market to quickly grab the billions of dollars before anyone else without the necessary testing and quality control? Can anyone remember SARS from a few years ago?

5) Why is there a big movement in the Autism community that beleives that over vaccinations contribute to autism in children?

6) Do you really know where the vaccine is being produced? Many are made over seas where the pharmcutical labs and doctors are not as clean or qualified.

7) What about the small percentage of people who die or who have a major side affect from the vaccine? Too small a percentage to worry about? What if it was your kid?

No shots for me.

1 - The flu vaccine tends to work pretty well. Everything has consequences.

2 - everyone won't get it.

3 - yeah, I pretty much do. I don't need the vaccine b/c I've been infected, but I'd get the vaccine on a dare or for a klondike bar, I'm not concerned at all about its safety or side effects.

4 - It had to be developed and distributed asap. That's the game with influenza. It's been tested, and it's also pretty much the same thing as any other flu shot - just a different strain of flu. You're overestimating the money by a bit. It's a lot, but not billions.

5 - Because some people will believe fucking anything.

6 - same could be said about a lot of things. There are 5 different companies making either the vaccine and/or adjuvant.

7 - Under one in a million. And chances are the flu, if it infects, will cause the same thing, only moreso.

it goes both ways - some people believe that just b/c they get a shot that "someone" says they should get that they'll be safe.

i have an immune system and i choose to use it. that's my choice, whether or not you agree with it. maybe the reason all these idiotic strains of things are popping up is that things are not allowed to run their natural courses and infect the people who are weaker. sickness and death are parts of the natural order of things.

i have a 4 yr degree in Biology, so you can't say that what i choose to believe is b/c of lack of education.
 

surfsatwerk

Lifer
Mar 6, 2008
10,110
5
81
Originally posted by: fulltilt39

it goes both ways - some people believe that just b/c they get a shot that "someone" says they should get that they'll be safe.

i have an immune system and i choose to use it. that's my choice, whether or not you agree with it. maybe the reason all these idiotic strains of things are popping up is that things are not allowed to run their natural courses and infect the people who are weaker. sickness and death are parts of the natural order of things.

i have a 4 yr degree in Biology, so you can't say that what i choose to believe is b/c of lack of education.

All the education in the world doesn't rationalize your assumptions. There is no mainstream acceptance of, or even any discussion of the ideas you have regarding vaccines and diseases like the flu.

It's your body and your choice, but don't waste time trying to rationalize your choice with loony pseudo-scientific thought.

 

fulltilt39

Golden Member
Aug 6, 2009
1,324
0
0
Originally posted by: surfsatwerk
Originally posted by: fulltilt39

it goes both ways - some people believe that just b/c they get a shot that "someone" says they should get that they'll be safe.

i have an immune system and i choose to use it. that's my choice, whether or not you agree with it. maybe the reason all these idiotic strains of things are popping up is that things are not allowed to run their natural courses and infect the people who are weaker. sickness and death are parts of the natural order of things.

i have a 4 yr degree in Biology, so you can't say that what i choose to believe is b/c of lack of education.

All the education in the world doesn't rationalize your assumptions. There is no mainstream acceptance of, or even any discussion of the ideas you have regarding vaccines and diseases like the flu.

It's your body and your choice, but don't waste time trying to rationalize your choice with loony pseudo-scientific thought.

i didnt USE it to rationalize anything. you said people's views were a lack of education in Biology and i was merely pointing out that this was not the case, as i am not one of the "idiots" you mention that happen not to agree with you.

and i have no paranoia about it, just choose not to get it. maybe you're the one over-reacting.
 

meltdown75

Lifer
Nov 17, 2004
37,558
7
81
well they have an immunization "clinic" that comes to my workplace so why not. only thing is, it's not until December / January. so i might get mine beforehand because i'm awesome like that.
 

jonks

Lifer
Feb 7, 2005
13,918
20
81
Originally posted by: fulltilt39
sickness and death are parts of the natural order of things.

i have a 4 yr degree in Biology, so you can't say that what i choose to believe is b/c of lack of education.

Polio was part of the "natural order" too. And education != intelligence. I have a lawyer friend from the deep South with 50 college credits in bio sciences who still thinks there's rational debate to be had between ID and evolution.

http://richarddawkins.net/arti...ations,Michael-Shermer

An Open Letter to Bill Maher on Vaccinations
by Michael Shermer
An Open Letter to Bill Maher on Vaccinations

From a Fellow Skeptic

By Michael Shermer
Editor of Skeptic magazine and ?Skeptic? columnist for Scientific American

Dear Bill,

Years ago you invited me to appear as a fellow skeptic several times on your ABC show Politically Incorrect, and I have ever since shared your skepticism on so many matters important to both of us: creationism and intelligent design, religious supernaturalism and New Age paranormal piffle, 9/11 ?truthers?, Obama ?birthers?, and all manner of conspiratorial codswallop. On these matters, and many others, you rightly deserved the Richard Dawkins Award from Atheist Alliance International.

However, I believe that when it comes to alternative medicine in general and vaccinations in particular you have fallen prey to the same cognitive biases and conspiratorial thinking that you have so astutely identified in others. In fact, the very principle of how vaccinations work is additional proof (as if we needed more) against the creationists that evolution happened and that natural selection is real: vaccinations work by tricking the body?s immune system into thinking that it has already had the disease for which the vaccination was given. Our immune system ?adapts? to the invading pathogens and ?evolves? to fight them, such that when it encounters a biologically similar pathogen (which itself may have evolved) it has in its armory the weapons needed to fight it. This is why many of us born in the 1950s and before may already have some immunity against the H1N1 flu because of its genetic similarity to earlier influenza viruses, and why many of those born after really should get vaccinated.

Vaccinations are not 100% effective, nor are they risk free. But the benefits far outweigh the risks, and when communities in the U.S. and the U.K. in recent years have foregone vaccinations in large numbers, herd immunity is lost and communicable diseases have come roaring back. This is yet another example of evolution at work, but in this case it is working against us. (See www.sciencebasedmedicine.org for numerous articles answering every one of the objections to vaccinations.)

Vaccination is one of science?s greatest discoveries. It is with considerable irony, then, that as a full-throated opponent of the nonsense that calls itself Intelligent Design, your anti-vaccination stance makes you something of an anti-evolutionist. Since you have been so vocal in your defense of the theory of evolution, I implore you to be consistent in your support of the theory across all domains and to please reconsider your position on vaccinations. It was not unreasonable to be a vaccination skeptic in the 1880s, which the co-discovered of natural selection?Alfred Russel Wallace?was, but we?ve learned a lot over the past century. Evolution explains why vaccinations work. Please stop denying evolution in this special case.

As well, Bill, your comments about not wanting to ?trust the government? to inject us with a potentially deadly virus, along with many comments you have made about ?big pharma? being in cahoots with the AMA and the CDC to keep us sick in the name of corporate profits is, in every way that matters, indistinguishable from 9/11 conspiracy mongering. Your brilliant line about how we know that the Bush administration did not orchestrate 9/11 (?because it worked?), applies here: the idea that dozens or hundreds pharmaceutical executives, AMA directors, CDC doctors, and corporate CEOs could pull off a conspiracy to keep us all sick in the name of money and power makes about as much sense as believing that Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, and their bureaucratic apparatchiks planted explosive devices in the World Trade Center and flew remote controlled planes into the buildings.

Finally, Bill, please consider the odd juxtaposition of your enthusiastic support for health care reform and government intervention into this aspect of our medical lives, with your skepticism that these same people?when it comes to vaccinations and disease prevention?suddenly lose their sense of morality along with their medical training. You excoriate the political right for not trusting the government with our health, and then in the next breath you inadvertently join their chorus when you denounce vaccinations, thereby adding fodder for their ideological cannons. Please remember that it?s the same people administrating both health care and vaccination programs.

One of the most remarkable features of science is that it often leads its practitioners to change their minds and to say ?I was wrong.? Perhaps we don?t do it enough, as our own blinders and egos can get in the way, but it does happen, and it certainly happens a lot more in science than it does in religion or politics. I?ve done it. I used to be a global warming skeptic, but I reconsidered the evidence and announced in Scientific American that I was wrong. Please reconsider both the evidence for vaccinations, as well as the inconsistencies in your position, and think about doing one of the bravest and most honorable things any critical thinker can do, and that is to publicly state, ?I changed my mind. I was wrong.?

With respect,

Michael Shermer
 

mchammer187

Diamond Member
Nov 26, 2000
9,116
0
76
Originally posted by: fulltilt39
Originally posted by: Gibsons
Originally posted by: Raizinman
I won't be getting the H1N1 or Flue vaccination because:

1) How many government organized things really work correctly without consequences?

2) If everyone else gets the vaccination, I should be safe. Yes, this is a weak argument, but I know we all who don't get vaccinated think it.

3) Do you really know what is in this vaccination? It is a propietary shot with a patented formula. Sort of reminds me of the days of the HP propietary motherboards that were believed to handle everything, but couldn't do much of anything one thing very good.

4) Is it not possible that the flu or H1N1 vaccine company rushed their product to the market to quickly grab the billions of dollars before anyone else without the necessary testing and quality control? Can anyone remember SARS from a few years ago?

5) Why is there a big movement in the Autism community that beleives that over vaccinations contribute to autism in children?

6) Do you really know where the vaccine is being produced? Many are made over seas where the pharmcutical labs and doctors are not as clean or qualified.

7) What about the small percentage of people who die or who have a major side affect from the vaccine? Too small a percentage to worry about? What if it was your kid?

No shots for me.

1 - The flu vaccine tends to work pretty well. Everything has consequences.

2 - everyone won't get it.

3 - yeah, I pretty much do. I don't need the vaccine b/c I've been infected, but I'd get the vaccine on a dare or for a klondike bar, I'm not concerned at all about its safety or side effects.

4 - It had to be developed and distributed asap. That's the game with influenza. It's been tested, and it's also pretty much the same thing as any other flu shot - just a different strain of flu. You're overestimating the money by a bit. It's a lot, but not billions.

5 - Because some people will believe fucking anything.

6 - same could be said about a lot of things. There are 5 different companies making either the vaccine and/or adjuvant.

7 - Under one in a million. And chances are the flu, if it infects, will cause the same thing, only moreso.

it goes both ways - some people believe that just b/c they get a shot that "someone" says they should get that they'll be safe.

i have an immune system and i choose to use it. that's my choice, whether or not you agree with it. maybe the reason all these idiotic strains of things are popping up is that things are not allowed to run their natural courses and infect the people who are weaker. sickness and death are parts of the natural order of things.

i have a 4 yr degree in Biology, so you can't say that what i choose to believe is b/c of lack of education.

By that logic isn't all medicine (western or otherwise) against the natural order of things?
 

fulltilt39

Golden Member
Aug 6, 2009
1,324
0
0
Originally posted by: mchammer187
Originally posted by: fulltilt39
Originally posted by: Gibsons
Originally posted by: Raizinman
I won't be getting the H1N1 or Flue vaccination because:

1) How many government organized things really work correctly without consequences?

2) If everyone else gets the vaccination, I should be safe. Yes, this is a weak argument, but I know we all who don't get vaccinated think it.

3) Do you really know what is in this vaccination? It is a propietary shot with a patented formula. Sort of reminds me of the days of the HP propietary motherboards that were believed to handle everything, but couldn't do much of anything one thing very good.

4) Is it not possible that the flu or H1N1 vaccine company rushed their product to the market to quickly grab the billions of dollars before anyone else without the necessary testing and quality control? Can anyone remember SARS from a few years ago?

5) Why is there a big movement in the Autism community that beleives that over vaccinations contribute to autism in children?

6) Do you really know where the vaccine is being produced? Many are made over seas where the pharmcutical labs and doctors are not as clean or qualified.

7) What about the small percentage of people who die or who have a major side affect from the vaccine? Too small a percentage to worry about? What if it was your kid?

No shots for me.

1 - The flu vaccine tends to work pretty well. Everything has consequences.

2 - everyone won't get it.

3 - yeah, I pretty much do. I don't need the vaccine b/c I've been infected, but I'd get the vaccine on a dare or for a klondike bar, I'm not concerned at all about its safety or side effects.

4 - It had to be developed and distributed asap. That's the game with influenza. It's been tested, and it's also pretty much the same thing as any other flu shot - just a different strain of flu. You're overestimating the money by a bit. It's a lot, but not billions.

5 - Because some people will believe fucking anything.

6 - same could be said about a lot of things. There are 5 different companies making either the vaccine and/or adjuvant.

7 - Under one in a million. And chances are the flu, if it infects, will cause the same thing, only moreso.

it goes both ways - some people believe that just b/c they get a shot that "someone" says they should get that they'll be safe.

i have an immune system and i choose to use it. that's my choice, whether or not you agree with it. maybe the reason all these idiotic strains of things are popping up is that things are not allowed to run their natural courses and infect the people who are weaker. sickness and death are parts of the natural order of things.

i have a 4 yr degree in Biology, so you can't say that what i choose to believe is b/c of lack of education.

By that logic isn't all medicine (western or otherwise) against the natural order of things?

well, everyone has an opinion and can find research to support their opinion.

in MY OPINION, medicine that works with and for the human body is beneficial. medicine that doesn't...well....isn't. the body was made to heal itself and when it can't, or in the case of an epidemic, then that's what is meant to be.

 

Gibsons

Lifer
Aug 14, 2001
12,530
35
91
Originally posted by: fulltilt39

well, everyone has an opinion and can find research to support their opinion.

in MY OPINION, medicine that works with and for the human body is beneficial. medicine that doesn't...well....isn't. the body was made to heal itself and when it can't, or in the case of an epidemic, then that's what is meant to be.
A not really. Besides, if you're sciency, you find research, then you form your opinion. Not the other way around.

B how does a vaccine not work with "the human body." It basically educates the immune system as to what the enemy might be. It's the immune system itself that then prevents disease.

Was polio "meant to be?" How about small pox?
 

KingGheedora

Diamond Member
Jun 24, 2006
3,248
1
81
Not planning on it. I've never gotten the "normal" flu vaccine before. Is there any reason one should get the swine flu one if they don't normally care enough to get the normal flu shot?