Will Windows Wireless Zero Congiuration be able to connect to an AP with broadcast turned off?

JackBurton

Lifer
Jul 18, 2000
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I'm using Windows XP SP2 and I have an AP that the SSID braodcast has been turned off. I have no control over this, and turning on the SSID broadcast is not an option (not my AP). The trick is, I need Windows XP wireless client to connect to it. From my understanding, MS's official stance is that the SSID has to be turned on to have it connect. I've never been able to get it to work, but I have guys that work with me that swear they have it working at home (Windows XP SP2 connect to a non broadcasted SSID AP). Anyway, is it possible for Windows XP SP2 to connect to an AP that is not broadcasting its SSID? If so, is there any trick to doing it?
 

JackMDS

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 25, 1999
29,543
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WZC Configuration Stores any SSID that it is connects to.

So if it needs to reconnect to the same AP that it was already connected to it would connect even if the beacon was turned later Off.

The probelm would be with new computers that never connected before that tjis specific AP, and do not have the SSID stored.

:sun:
 

JackBurton

Lifer
Jul 18, 2000
15,993
14
81
I've manually put in the SSID and it still won't connect. Once I turn on the broadcast on on the AP, it connects automatically. :confused:
 

JackMDS

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 25, 1999
29,543
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Originally posted by: JackBurton
I've manually put in the SSID and it still won't connect. Once I turn on the broadcast on on the AP, it connects automatically. :confused:
Yeah I am not surprised, by the Straight Rules the Beacon has to be On. However depending on the implementation of the chipset/drivers, many follow the behavior as I indicated above, some would not connect at all, and some would be unstable.

If someone has system at home that consists of few computers and happened that with these computers work with the Beacon Off ?Good for Him?

Professionally I do not take upon myself to deliver a system with the Beacon Off; it does not add security, and usually adds a lot of trouble.

:sun:

 

JackBurton

Lifer
Jul 18, 2000
15,993
14
81
Originally posted by: JackMDS
Originally posted by: JackBurton
I've manually put in the SSID and it still won't connect. Once I turn on the broadcast on on the AP, it connects automatically. :confused:
Yeah I am not surprised, by the Straight Rules the Beacon has to be On. However depending on the implementation of the chipset/drivers, many follow the behavior as I indicated above, some would not connect at all, and some would be unstable.

If someone has system at home that consists of few computerand happened that with thses computers it works with the Beacon Off ?Good for Him?

Professionally I do not take upon myself to deliver a system with the Beacon Off; it does not add security, and usually adds a lot of trouble.

:sun:
I agree.
 

nweaver

Diamond Member
Jan 21, 2001
6,813
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1. Any card should function with an AP not broadcasting SSID. any DECENT card, I should say

2. Probe requests to non broadcasting AP's have the SSID in a non encrypted packet. I can find that packet PDQ, so it's not a decent form of security
 

Aarondeep

Golden Member
Jan 26, 2000
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I have had a similar problem, All I had to do was turn the SSID broadcast on once, create a new profile using that and then i could just switch off broadcast while connected, and it worked fine afterwards.
 

nweaver

Diamond Member
Jan 21, 2001
6,813
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Originally posted by: aarondeep
I have had a similar problem, All I had to do was turn the SSID broadcast on once, create a new profile using that and then i could just switch off broadcast while connected, and it worked fine afterwards.

so (and this is imho) you have either a) a craptastic card or b) a craptastic router. either way, I would get rid of them. I detest subpar wireless gear, it just makes things messy.

As an FYI, a normal association to an AP goes something like this

Client->broadcast "Probe Request" (null SSID)
all AP's set to broadcast SSID -> "Here I am (SSID field populated) and here is my info

And without SSID, you have to have

Client ->Broadcast "Probe request (SSID= Linksys)"
AP's with LINKSYS SSID-> Here I am, and here is my info.


based on that, it's probably your client not including the SSId in the probe request, hence the ap never replies and so the client never "sees" the radio. You could try an airopeek trial to see if you can figure out what it is, but you need a decent wireless card to get airopeek to work.
 

JackBurton

Lifer
Jul 18, 2000
15,993
14
81
Originally posted by: nweaver
Originally posted by: aarondeep
I have had a similar problem, All I had to do was turn the SSID broadcast on once, create a new profile using that and then i could just switch off broadcast while connected, and it worked fine afterwards.

so (and this is imho) you have either a) a craptastic card or b) a craptastic router. either way, I would get rid of them. I detest subpar wireless gear, it just makes things messy.

As an FYI, a normal association to an AP goes something like this

Client->broadcast "Probe Request" (null SSID)
all AP's set to broadcast SSID -> "Here I am (SSID field populated) and here is my info

And without SSID, you have to have

Client ->Broadcast "Probe request (SSID= Linksys)"
AP's with LINKSYS SSID-> Here I am, and here is my info.


based on that, it's probably your client not including the SSId in the probe request, hence the ap never replies and so the client never "sees" the radio. You could try an airopeek trial to see if you can figure out what it is, but you need a decent wireless card to get airopeek to work.
Let me be a little more specific, the AP is a Cisco 1200 series with a b/g radio, and the client has a built in Intel Pro 2915 a/b/g card. These are brand new laptops with a very standard wireless card.

I'll do a little more testing and let you guys know. Thanks.
 

JackBurton

Lifer
Jul 18, 2000
15,993
14
81
Well installed Airopeek and when I go to capture it says my wireless card is not supported. I then go to their site and see what wireless cards are supported. Sure enough, my card is not listed. How the fvck is an Intel Pro 2915 card not supported? It's just the main card being used in Centrino laptops. :|
 

nweaver

Diamond Member
Jan 21, 2001
6,813
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the 2915 with the latest drivers, and a Cisco 1200 work fine with no SSID. Take it to the bank brother, I have done extensive testing of this card/driver/AP. It's CCX certified :))

but, ditch the WZC and get the intel client. WZC is (imnsho) craptastic compared to a decent utilty, such as those produced by Intel, Atheros, and even broadcom.
 

JackBurton

Lifer
Jul 18, 2000
15,993
14
81
Originally posted by: nweaver
the 2915 with the latest drivers, and a Cisco 1200 work fine with no SSID. Take it to the bank brother, I have done extensive testing of this card/driver/AP. It's CCX certified :))

but, ditch the WZC and get the intel client. WZC is (imnsho) craptastic compared to a decent utilty, such as those produced by Intel, Atheros, and even broadcom.
I can see AND connect to the AP, but I have to use a different wireless client. That's what I'm trying to get away from. I wanted to use WZC because every laptop has WZC. Not every laptop will have a 2915 card or even and Intel card. I know WZC ain't the best wireless client, but it is easily managed through AD and I wanted to keep everything standardized.

If I have to, I might just have to suck it up and use the 3rd party wireless client. :(
 

nweaver

Diamond Member
Jan 21, 2001
6,813
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the intel client isn't the 3rd party client, WZC is...

If you are using (mostly) intel clients, look at the latest drives, and the admin tool. you can creat a single executable file that will add "single sign on" type capabilites and not allow changes. The intel client can also scan a folder for a newer file and add that into the utility. For an enterprise rollout, standardizin on at leas a vendor is good, and Intel (imho) has the best admin capabilities.
 

FreshPrince

Diamond Member
Dec 6, 2001
8,361
1
0
I ran into this problem before as I created the ssid profile manually and it did not want to connect. later, I found that the AP was using a different channel.

after I changed the channel for the card permanently, I has no problems connecting to a non-boradcasting ap.

so, check that and make sure your card's channel is set to the same as your ap.