Will windows 10 be secure ?

May 11, 2008
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Now that windows 10 will be able to run the same application on every windows 10 device (PC, phone, tablet) and will have IoT (Internet of Things) support, will it be save ?

When reading about it, i kind of get flashbacks to earlier versions of windows connected to the internet without a firewall with all kinds of network protcols active and activex controls allowing for malicious websites to take over your windows device.

How will windows 10 be more secure ?
Is microsoft not going to make the same mistake all over again ?

Discuss, advise...
 

lxskllr

No Lifer
Nov 30, 2004
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Like every other significant software, it'll be full of bugs and vulnerabilities. It's how they handle them that matters, and the user will need to be cognizant of risks, especially with networked nonsense(InternetofThings(I hate that term)).
 

balloonshark

Diamond Member
Jun 5, 2008
7,318
3,740
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I don't know about you all but the main reason I hate mobile devices is because the apps are nothing more than spyware and adware. I have no idea why people decided spyware and adware were acceptable in exchange for a free app but I have no use for it on my desktop. If apps with shady privacy shredding permissions are the future of Windows I will gladly give up gaming to run linux.
 
May 11, 2008
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I worry about windows 10 being able to receive a driver with executable from an IoT device and installing it automatically when connected. I kind of worry that something similar as the USB hack will happen. How is microsoft going to make sure that an IoT device cannot upload executables that can be executed at any time ?

http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2014/08/01/usb-security/

It is well known that USB drives can be dangerous. Companies run strict screening policies and it has long been known that running unknown ‘exe’ files is a bad idea. But what if the threat was undetectable, unfixable and could be planted into any USB device be it a USB drive, keyboard, mouse, web camera, printer, even smartphone or tablet? Well this nightmare scenario just became reality.
The findings will be laid out in a presentation next week from security researchers Karsten Nohl and Jakob Lell who claim the security of USB devices is fundamentally broken . More to the point they said it has always been fundamentally broken, but the holes have only just been discovered.

BadUSB
To demonstrate this the researchers created malware called ‘BadUSB’. It can be installed on any USB device and take complete control over any PC to which it connects. This includes downloading and uploading files, tracking web history, adding infected software into installations and even controlling the keyboard so it can type commands.
“It can do whatever you can do with a keyboard, which is basically everything a computer does,” explains Nohl in an interview with Wired.
Moreover BadUSB can send code both ways, aka from the USB device to the PC and from the PC to the USB device. Previously any malicious code on a USB drive could only travel one way. And it gets worse.

Unfixable and Undetectable
“These problems can’t be patched,” says Nohl. “We’re exploiting the very way that USB is designed… You can give it to your IT security people, they scan it, delete some files, and give it back to you telling you it’s ‘clean’ but the cleaning process doesn’t even touch the files we’re talking about.”
The reason for this is the exploit changes the firmware (instruction set) on USB devices rather than simply being a file stored on the main memory which could be accessed and deleted. In short: the exploit isn’t stored inside the USB device like a Trojan horse, it has reprogrammed the device itself. Since USB devices all share similar firmware the trick can be repeated on anything designed to be plugged into a USB port.
Even now the exploit is known addressing it is nearly impossible. ‘Code signing’ is a common countermeasure for stopping the unauthorised modification of firmware, but it isn’t part of the USB standard and even if it were there is no ‘clean’ USB firmware reference code to compare modifications against.
The exploit is already being tied to ‘Cottonmouth’, a USB spy device revealed last year in the leaks of Edward Snowden. The NSA hid Cottonmouth in peripheral plugs that were then connected to key computers. The exact operation of Cottonmouth was never revealed but Matt Blaze, computer science professor at the University of Pennsylvania, told Wired “I wouldn’t be surprised if some of the things [Nohl and Lell] discovered are what we heard about in the NSA catalogue.”
Nohl takes this a step further. He argues USB devices should be treated as if they are hypodermic needles . “In this new way of thinking, you can’t trust a USB just because its storage doesn’t contain a virus. Trust must come from the fact that no one malicious has ever touched it. You have to consider a USB infected and throw it away as soon as it touches a non-trusted computer. And that’s incompatible with how we use USB devices right now.”
Speaking to me Michael Sutton, VP of security research at Zscaler, agrees with the severity of Nohl’s warning. “Presently the only viable defence is to avoid using untrusted USB peripherals and those that have been outside of your control,” he explained.
While awareness will be the first step in addressing the security black hole now attributable to all USB devices, pressure will also mount quickly on the USB Implementers Forum and the major USB device manufacturers to come up with a permanent solution. Until then paranoia with build.
As Nohl concludes: “Nobody can trust anybody.”

Details about BAD USB :
https://srlabs.de/badusb/
 
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Mushkins

Golden Member
Feb 11, 2013
1,631
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BadUSB doesn't really have anything at all to do with Windows though, it's a hardware vulnerability that's only even meaningful if someone has direct access to the hardware or can social engineer you into plugging in untrusted usb-based peripherals. There's nothing Microsoft can do about that short of not supporting USB entirely.

As for the IoT, it's security is no different than any other network-based device. There are no drivers to install because it's all done via TCP/IP communication between devices, that's the point. Your fridge or your coffee pot has a SoC running controller software and a webserver, and you can log into the web interface or use a mobile app to configure when it automatically makes coffee for you. Security is focused on your overall network security implementation (firewalls, routers, etc), and is pretty much OS agnostic.
 

Mem

Lifer
Apr 23, 2000
21,476
13
81
Users are the most insecure part of Windows,not Windows itself.

Microsoft can't make any Windows bulletproof,end of the day better education for those "high risk people" that use Windows is probably the best you can hope for.
 

JackMDS

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 25, 1999
29,563
432
126
Users are the most insecure part of Windows,not Windows itself.

Microsoft can't make any Windows bulletproof,end of the day better education for those "high risk people" that use Windows is probably the best you can hope for.

QFT :thumbsup:



:cool:
 
May 11, 2008
23,331
1,575
126
BadUSB doesn't really have anything at all to do with Windows though, it's a hardware vulnerability that's only even meaningful if someone has direct access to the hardware or can social engineer you into plugging in untrusted usb-based peripherals. There's nothing Microsoft can do about that short of not supporting USB entirely.

As for the IoT, it's security is no different than any other network-based device. There are no drivers to install because it's all done via TCP/IP communication between devices, that's the point. Your fridge or your coffee pot has a SoC running controller software and a webserver, and you can log into the web interface or use a mobile app to configure when it automatically makes coffee for you. Security is focused on your overall network security implementation (firewalls, routers, etc), and is pretty much OS agnostic.

It is true that BADUSB has nothing todo with windows itself, but since windows 10 will be a new os, is it not possible for microsoft to specify to look at the driver level what is going on and prevent BADUSB ? I mean, the driver has to allow the firmware.

I understand that it is possible to let any usb device emulate another usb device by having the right descriptors. But already, my virusscanner prevents sort of loading drivers (sometimes to my agony) from any usb mass storage drivers until i allow the device. Maybe it is time that windows has this build in. And automatically playing from any usb mass storage device is not save either with security in mind. So, there can be done something.
Also, a driver should not be allowed to automatically copy any information from a usb device and execute that information. That is on the driver level and has for as far as i know nothing to do with usb it self.
And when attaching a usb device or any device, windows should explicitely ask to allow secondary software installation after installing the driver.
Also, windows should have a setting for the more secure systems that when that setting is active, any device that is plugged in is not installed automatically but windows should request the user to allow the driver to install. That should remove a lot of security wise issues. And leaves the security issues with the user.

With respect to the IoT devices, even then a service will be running allowing them to connect, that sevice should have security settings for these devices. And for example not allow any data to be transferred over the tcp ip protocol, that is then executed without permission from the user.
 
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