Will WHS get a patch to allow GPT partitions on data pool drives?

[VirtualLarry]

As I read in the storage forum, 2.5TB HDs are going to be out in April. That's a problem, as standard MBR ("basic" volume, in Windows parlance) is limit to 2TB in size.

That causes problems booting, and even moreso, the storage pool drives in WHS are apparently automatically partitioned using MBR/basic by the WHS console when you add them to the pool. That's bad.

The OS on which WHS is based, Server 2003, supports GPT volumes. So it would seem to me a simple change to WHS is all that is needed to support GPT volumes. Whether or not MS will do that, or force us to move to WHS 2008, remains to be seen.

 

[Khyron320]

Win 2003 in its first release suport only 2tb. But as of 2003 sp1 it supports 256tb. WHS has to be based on the newer 2k3 but I'm not sure.

 

[JackMDS]

The Rumor is that the Next release is going to be based on Windows Server 2008 x64.

http://www.withinwindows.com/2010/02/02/a-look-at-windows-home-server-vail-build-7360/

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[ViRGE]

I highly doubt we're going to see a GPT patch. Vale is going to be the "solution" to the issue.

 

[Nothinman]

I highly doubt we're going to see a GPT patch. Vale is going to be the "solution" to the issue.

Vale?

 

[RebateMonger]

The eventual introduction of "big" disks is going to present several challenges to WHS (and other OSes, too):

1) Windows Home Server doesn't know what to do with GPT disks
2) Windows Home Server doesn't back up client computers with GPT disks
3) WHS doesn't natively support the 4KB sectors of the new "Advanced Format" disks, now being introduced by Western Digital, but probably to be used on all makes for their "big" disks over the next to years.

The "good news" is that those "big" disks don't exist yet and probably won't be affordable for a while even after they are introduced. And WHS users seem to have found a workaround to the 4KB sector issue, using the bootable version of WDAlign that Western Digital offered a few days ago.

The other good news is that these issues won't affect most potential WHS users for a while. "In Real Life" (not Anandtech), few users have desktops with GPT partitions, nor more than the 8 TB of data that can be stored on a four-bay HP or Acer Windows Home Server.

 

[ViRGE]

Vale?

I misspelled that, that's Vail. That's the codename for the next version of WHS, based on WinServer 2K8 R2 and widely expected at the end of this year since it's already in testing (and slots in nicely with MS's 3-year cycle). Since it's 2K8 based, it already will have some degree of GPT support.

The only real question will be if MS is going to do something to get it to boot from GPT disks too.

 

[VirtualLarry]

The only real question will be if MS is going to do something to get it to boot from GPT disks too.

They can't do anything about it, that's up to the BIOS. And thus far, I haven't seen any updates from motherboard makers that allow their boards to boot from GPT volumes.

It's like they have their heads buried in the sand.

 

[JackMDS]

"In Real Life" (not Anandtech)

Should be, In Real Life (""not Anandtech life"").

 

[Nothinman]

I misspelled that, that's Vail. That's the codename for the next version of WHS, based on WinServer 2K8 R2 and widely expected at the end of this year since it's already in testing (and slots in nicely with MS's 3-year cycle). Since it's 2K8 based, it already will have some degree of GPT support.

The only real question will be if MS is going to do something to get it to boot from GPT disks too.

According to Wikipedia Win2K3 SP1+ have GPT support. I don't know if that applies to WHS or not but it shouldn't be hard for MS to fix it if it doesn't.

 

[RebateMonger]

They can't do anything about it, that's up to the BIOS. And thus far, I haven't seen any updates from motherboard makers that allow their boards to boot from GPT volumes.

It's like they have their heads buried in the sand.

It's kind of frustrating, trying to dig up information on this stuff. A search for release dates of "big" (bigger than 2 TB) hard drives comes up with articles written in 2007. Seaches for information on EFI support end up in Macintosh forums.

As you said, at this point, unless MS and the disk makers come up with something completely new, we're really at the mercy of the motherboard makers first, and then MS writing GPT support into the WHS V2 installation routines and into the V2 Drive Extender routines.

 

[Nothinman]

It's kind of frustrating, trying to dig up information on this stuff. A search for release dates of "big" (bigger than 2 TB) hard drives comes up with articles written in 2007. Seaches for information on EFI support end up in Macintosh forums.

As you said, at this point, unless MS and the disk makers come up with something completely new, we're really at the mercy of the motherboard makers first, and then MS writing GPT support into the WHS V2 installation routines and into the V2 Drive Extender routines.

Booting is secondary, all MS really needs to do is enable GPT support for data drives.

 

[ViRGE]

According to Wikipedia Win2K3 SP1+ have GPT support. I don't know if that applies to WHS or not but it shouldn't be hard for MS to fix it if it doesn't.

It doesn't. WHS doesn't have any degree of GPT support; apparently isn't not even compiled in.

Since WHS is a consumer product with a similarly short lifecycle, I don't expect that MS will do anything dramatic such as enabling GPT support. They're much more likely to just have it working out of the box on the next version of WHS, especially since there's no legitimate way to slipstream the Power Packs in to a WHS v1 install disc like you can Windows SPs.

Edit: Also bear in mind that the system requirements for Vail aren't out yet. It's entirely possible that MS will try to push the envelope and require EFI for it. We already know it's 64bit-only, which means its equivalent Windows Server version is EFI+GPT bootable.

 

[VirtualLarry]

According to Wikipedia Win2K3 SP1+ have GPT support. I don't know if that applies to WHS or not but it shouldn't be hard for MS to fix it if it doesn't.

That's why I was asking if they were going to do a patch. If the OS already contains support, all they have to do is add it to the console and drive extender (which, AFAIK, is filesystem-based, so leaving the OS to manage the partition type should be simple).

 

[VirtualLarry]

It doesn't. WHS doesn't have any degree of GPT support; apparently isn't not even compiled in.

I disagree. I remember reading a workaround for WHS to enable RAID support, and use volumes larger than 2TB with WHS as data drives. It is possible, so therefore it must still have GPT support somewhere in the OS. (The workaround didn't include replacing any core OS files to enable support, just some registry hacks, IIRC).

Edit: See this thread: http://social.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/whssoftware/thread/e9f9d27a-f8b1-4fc0-872b-bc8e3b2609f0/

 

[RebateMonger]

Edit: Also bear in mind that the system requirements for Vail aren't out yet. It's entirely possible that MS will try to push the envelope and require EFI for it. We already know it's 64bit-only, which means its equivalent Windows Server version is EFI+GPT bootable.

I'm going to miss the current "everyman's server" product. Right now, you can take a "junker" PC from 2002, insert a $20 SATA controller card, a $70 1 TeraByte disk, and a $100 piece of software, and have a perfectly functional WHS server.

 

[ViRGE]

Edit: See this thread: http://social.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/whssoftware/thread/e9f9d27a-f8b1-4fc0-872b-bc8e3b2609f0/

Interesting. That implies that GPT already works, which is markedly different than everything I've seen about the issue thus far.

 

[RebateMonger]

Interesting. That implies that GPT already works, which is markedly different than everything I've seen about the issue thus far.

Yeah, I knew I'd seen a workaround to use GPT in WHS, but hadn't been able to find it in recent searches.

That workaround was created using a beta version of WHS in 2007. Months before PP1 and the re-written Drive Extender. I wonder if it still works?

 

[Khyron320]

Would it be in poor taste at this point to say: Use a linux server
At least the open source community will fix things as problems arrise. Nothing like a company telling you to buy our next product if you want your stuff to work.

Yes they need to make money but paying for a license a 2nd time for the same product is silly

 

[VirtualLarry]

I wonder if there would be a market for add-in SATA controllers, that have a BIOS that will boot off of a GPT disk? I would think that those would be popular. Add SATA6G support, and I bet that they will fly off the shelves.

(Just like back in the day, when 48-bit LBA was introduced to support HDs larger than 128GiB. Controller cards with a BIOS provided a solution for motherboards that were unable to boot off of larger drives/parititions sucessfully.)

 

[RebateMonger]

Would it be in poor taste at this point to say: Use a linux server

A little bit, maybe. Kinda' like dropping into a Linux discussion over the pros and cons of various Linux distributions and suggesting they switch to Windows Vista. But feel free. No big deal.

As for the "forced upgrades", it'd be a bigger deal if WHS was expensive. It's pretty much the cheapest OS that Microsoft makes. But I'd much-prefer to see a WHS R2 that would work with current WHS PCs (x32) rather than requiring a whole new server. But it's probably not practical.

 

[RebateMonger]

I wonder if there would be a market for add-in SATA controllers, that have a BIOS that will boot off of a GPT disk? I would think that those would be popular. Add SATA6G support, and I bet that they will fly off the shelves.

Well there will certainly be add-in SATA3 controllers, which would seem to go hand-in-hand with GPT support. Add-in disk controllers (and add-in disk overlay software of long-ago) have certainly filled some big gaps in lagging disk support over the past three decades.

 

[JackMDS]

That workaround was created using a beta version of WHS in 2007. Months before PP1 and the re-written Drive Extender. I wonder if it still works?

I think it is this, http://www.joomlacurve.com/tonys-blog/73-windows-home-server-runs-better-on-raid.html

This can be of interest too, http://social.microsoft.com/Forums/en/whshardware/thread/b826a2fc-2490-4e12-a5b4-59d8c9590f09

Both written a while ago.
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