Will Western Europe ever be Islamized?

[Carfax83]

Out of curiosity, who on P&N thinks that Western Europe might one day become Islamized

With the Muslim population in Europe growing whilst the native population dwindles, it's not such a far fetched thought. Some major cities like Brussels and Amsterdam already have a sizable Muslim population at around 25%..

Personally, I don't think it will. The heat is on right now, and the ill feelings towards Muslims will continue to grow until they reach critical mass, creating a drastic event of some kind that will result in the disintegration of the E.U, and a mass Exodus of Muslims out of Europe..

It will take years for this to happen, but in the meantime, many Europeans are apparently taking a serious look at the extreme right wing political parties. This was inevitable, and would only come as a shock to those that haven't been tuning into the anti-Muslim and anti-immigrant movement that has been building over the years.

Sudden rise of far right groups in the E.U.

So, what are your thoughts?

 

[brianmanahan]

i voted yes because forever is a long time

 

[Blanky]

I said perhaps because I'm not confident enough in either other response to say for sure. The scenario that the OP outlines is plausible, though, the mass exodus, but really where will these people go? Even people who want sharia law in Europe must realize that predominantly muslim nations are pretty well all third world hell holes with incredibly oppressive governments.

Another possible scenario is that intelligence/counter-terrorism will keep getting more effective and using more computer analytics identify extremists much easier, thus reducing the thread. I still believe in the future crime is going to be massively harder to pull off than it is today.

 

[Oyeve]

I really don't care.

 

[Smoblikat]

Dont care, thats not my problem.

 

[cbrunny]

Define 'Islamized'

 

[Orignal Earl]

Tens of millions of American Christians have the faith that God will bring about the End Times long before that happens

 

[soulcougher73]

No they will be kicking them out soon enough (40 year time frame)

That's my bold prediction.

 

[PokerGuy]

Growing ill will towards muslims in Europe only serves to isolate them from the rest of the societies, further strengthening the more radical elements. Ultimately, it's simply going to be a matter of birthrates though, Europe is realizing the problem they've brought into their home too late.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Growing ill will towards muslims in Europe only serves to isolate them from the rest of the societies, further strengthening the more radical elements. Ultimately, it's simply going to be a matter of birthrates though, Europe is realizing the problem they've brought into their home too late.

So in the US, the end battle will be between the Mexicans and Muslims and Mormons?

 

[Newell Steamer]

I never understood this;
- Come to my country, I have work for you,.. at a much lower wage than my country's citizens,...
- .. But, don't use ANY of my country's social programs!!
- If you do want to use ANY of my country's social programs, you should be paying taxes,...
- .. But, you can't become a citizen, since you are here illegally which allows me to pay you at a much lower wage than my country's citizens

What did these people expect would happen, when tapping the illegal worker pool? That said illegals would follow these 'rules'?

Or, more on topic, that legal/illegal workers would not live their lives? I do not agree with this Sharia law bullshit, but immigrants will build mosques, temples, churches and their own communities. You can't prevent or stop that,.. unless you don't allow anyone into your country. And, if you do that, who is then willing to pay 80K Euro a year for bathroom cleaners, mortar mixers and olive tree pickers? Or, which European will do all of that shit for 25K Euro a year? No one.

Now, over the course of time, future generations will acclimate. Again, there are certainly extremist who demand Europe becomes what they want it to be come (again, Sharia law), but, for the most part, people just want to work,... not take over Europe.

 

[kage69]

In the sense the Beck and Jones fans get frothy about? No.

 

[Black Octagon]

Define 'Islamized'

My thoughts exactly.

Also, regarding Brussels, bear in mind that at any one time, its residents (like myself) are in the minority. Each and every day, many people totalling several times the local population enter for work. These include people from other countrIes and other parts of Belgium, who many of whom own and use short-stay flats. So even if a quarter of the permanent residents were Muslim, it's not the case that 1 in every 4 people you pass in the street are necessarily Muslim

Regarding the original survey, I would also point out that it counted 250,000 people (out of 1 million permanent residents) who have Muslim ROOTS. They don't necessarily practise Islam, go to the mosque, pray or identify as Muslims in any serious way. They could just have Muslim parents...or 1 Muslim parent...or even a Muslim grandparent depending on how they interpret the word 'roots.'

http://www.eurasiareview.com/18112011-belgium-25-percent-of-brussels-population-is-muslim/


EDIT: Actually, I found the original source (in French): http://www.uclouvain.be/395387.html

Of the 250,000 'Muslims' mentioned, the author concedes that only 120,000-150,000 are "religiously active." In the context of this thread, it's therefore incorrect to state that Brussels is 25% Muslim. 12-15% would be the correct figure, at least according to this source.

Gotta love internet laziness. A single study finds that 25% of Brussels residents are of Muslim roots, and in the reposting that becomes "25% of Brussels is Muslim." Never mind the fact that Muslims are estimated to comprise only 6% of the entire Belgian population (source), which is consistent with the European average (source).

That said, the average is creeping up slowly, and I imagine declining fertility rates among non-immigrant Europeans could be a factor

 

[yllus]

Give me a break. They survived World War I and II. They'll be fine with a bit of culture wrangling.

 

[Jaskalas]

Immigration and birth rate will determine which population will be the majority. Those stats, I believe, currently favor Muslims.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Shouldn't we be really concerned about the rise in Nazi's in Europe, you linked there?
All this Muslims are taking over the world thing sounds a lot like their old Jewish one

 

[Jaskalas]

Shouldn't we be really concerned about the rise in Nazi's in Europe, you linked there?
All this Muslims are taking over the world thing sounds a lot like their old Jewish one

Folks looking to protect themselves from invasive terrorism aren't Nazis.

When the source of a problem is seen as foreign, forcing a separation, a removal of it seems logical. There's a degree of protection from maintaining distance.

These folks likely believe that Islam equals Terrorism. Plain and simple. Is there anyone out there able and willing to change their minds on that? Media has fanned the flames here, they report Terrorism. They don't report outreach efforts.

Far as anyone knows, efforts at peace simply don't exist. That needs to change quickly.

 

[master_shake_]

they won't have a chance.

the world is going to blow up!

 

[trenchfoot]

I voted no only because I believe that greed is more powerful than any belief system known to man.

Prosperity for the few wins outright over the religious faith of millions.

Unless of course, the greedy see that their road to prosperity is paved through their religious institutions. I bet they'll find their "faith" in less time than it takes to fire off a single synaptic.

But that's already happening isn't it?

 

[Orignal Earl]

When the source of a problem is seen as foreign, forcing a separation, a removal of it seems logical. There's a degree of protection from maintaining distance.

That's what the Nazi's did

These folks likely believe that Islam equals Terrorism. Plain and simple. Is there anyone out there able and willing to change their minds on that? Media has fanned the flames here, they report Terrorism. They don't report outreach efforts.

Far as anyone knows, efforts at peace simply don't exist. That needs to change quickly.

I see several European posters here aren't only getting the Islam is Terrorism message like a lot of the American posters here are.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Tens of millions of American Atheists have the faith that Atheism will bring about the End Times long before that happens

 

[Carfax83]

Define 'Islamized'

I would have thought the meaning of the word "Islamize" to be self evident.

But basically, just that Islam might become the dominant religion in Western Europe. And because Islam is not just a religion, this could potentially cause massive societal upheaval as culture, politics, law etcetera are all affected.

This is already happening to a minor extent in certain suburbs and neighborhoods in Western Europe, and probably even here in North America..

 

[Carfax83]

Regarding the original survey, I would also point out that it counted 250,000 people (out of 1 million permanent residents) who have Muslim ROOTS. They don't necessarily practise Islam, go to the mosque, pray or identify as Muslims in any serious way. They could just have Muslim parents...or 1 Muslim parent...or even a Muslim grandparent depending on how they interpret the word 'roots.'

Of the 250,000 'Muslims' mentioned, the author concedes that only 120,000-150,000 are "religiously active." In the context of this thread, it's therefore incorrect to state that Brussels is 25% Muslim. 12-15% would be the correct figure, at least according to this source.

Interesting, thanks for the additional insight. But I wonder how the author determined who was "religiously active" and who wasn't. That seems pretty subjective to me, and isn't something that's easily tallied.

That said, the average is creeping up slowly, and I imagine declining fertility rates among non-immigrant Europeans could be a factor

You also have native Europeans that convert to Islam, but I don't think this would be a significant factor. I knew a British woman that converted to Islam though, and she was COMPLETELY different afterwards.

And I mean it in a not so good kind of way..

 

[sandorski]

I would have thought the meaning of the word "Islamize" to be self evident.

But basically, just that Islam might become the dominant religion in Western Europe. And because Islam is not just a religion, this could potentially cause massive societal upheaval as culture, politics, law etcetera are all affected.

This is already happening to a minor extent in certain suburbs and neighborhoods in Western Europe, and probably even here in North America..

It is not self-evident. Islam could become the dominant Religion and not really change much at all or it could be very Fundamentalist. Hell, it could become the dominant Religion and still be a Minority of the population.

 

[alcoholbob]

In terms of population, Muslims will likely be a majority eventually, in the UK some estimates are in 4 generations or so it will occur based on current projections, either a plurality or majority. However that's only numerically on the continent itself. In the medium run Muslims and Non-Muslims will just live in different neighborhoods in cities, in the long run probably more severe segregation until eventually nation-states with Muslim majorities will just balkanize like Yugoslavia, which may or may not be a peaceful process.