Will we learn the hard way that NIMBYism is bad for the USA

sao123

Lifer
May 27, 2002
12,653
205
106
Whether you believe it is financial sense or just environmental NIMBYism, the fact is we have moved almost all our dirty industry and manufacturing to China.

Now that the Chinese state is threatening to cut off our supply of vital medications, will we see a resurgence in domestic dirty manufacturing?


Or do we have to relearn the lessons of 1973-1974 all over again? Dependence on foreign manufacturing for anything necessary is a terribly frightening idea. If we don't see the light soon, global trade dependency ultimately will bring about the destruction of our economy and our nation.
 
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Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,824
6,780
126
What you call NIMBYism , I call capitalistic shortsighted greed. Anybody with a sense of personal responsibility who wants to make something of him or her self in a capitalistic society will maximize profit any way he or she can even if it destroys one's own country. With money comes personal freedom. You can buy an island in Paradise when things at home turn to shit. This is just another manifestation of the dehumanization that is created by fear, just like the fear that those profits will be taxed to support worthless people who should never get anything for free. It's the way of the psychopath to think only of one's self.
 

brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
30,061
31,021
136
Why does the OP hate freedom and capitalism? Maybe we can import some "experts" from North Korea to help us get to this glorious self sufficiency called for.
 
Mar 11, 2004
23,444
5,852
146
Well that's a shit title for this thread. Its not NIMBYism at all. No clue how you even conlfated that here as absolutely pharma didn't outsource over environmentalism. Its absolutely just pure greed (which is not NIMBY at all). And no, that's not going to change, unless you're willing to stop enabling that. Hell your argument even basically explicitly tries to call for more of us enabling that by letting them poison us instead just to give them more money so they'll give us jobs back.

Which, big surprise that after our President spent a year (well more than that, but in an official capacity) about fucking China over that when they get leverage they return the favor. Gee, I wonder if that's related at all? Nah, surely not, I'm sure that's in no way the issue at all. Nevermind Fox News going out of its way recently to label it as Chinese Coronavirus to prop up their racist diatribes. Or how some right wing politicians spouted conspiracy theories about China creating it in a lab. I'm sure that's not why Chinese officials are doing the same thing now. I'm sure there's no correlation between the two at all.
 
Dec 10, 2005
29,190
14,576
136
Nice false choice. Manufacturing doesn't have to be as filthy as it was in the past or may be now in foreign countries. Companies would rather dump those external costs onto society than spend money on upfront mitigation. Nevermind that they also moved stuff overseas to simply increase profit margins...

And it's not NIMBYism, just FYI.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,904
31,431
146
fear fear fear!

never let a world-wide disaster go to waste when xenophobia can be exploited by (and for) the simplest of minds.
 

1prophet

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2005
5,313
534
126
We'll have our answer the first Wed in Nov

Not if Biden or Trump is all you have to choose from, that free trade, democracy through free markets horse left the barn long ago, doesn't matter who is elected,

besides imagine trying to get the younger cell phone addicted generation with the attention span of a chicken to work in factories like the Chinese who make most of the throwaway shit they constantly buy to feel better about themselves.

WM7doDDJlrIB6i4fKZSF2s5buL-zmNL3WF81jXkFiOBuo493JbjG1R7O_mOgD3fHZ8wayEsASyw2b5qJ6KLhmFFKZpFqsVdlfI6I-49H-tSoVvXjidNQ1OLOOjXL_ju7sTDkK0VCeMIsd98


https%3A%2F%2Fspecials-images.forbesimg.com%2Fdam%2Fimageserve%2F38872814%2F960x0.jpg%3Ffit%3Dscale


And this quote from below is the reason America is the way it is and the same mentality you see in the me only matters executives has infected the country from the welfare crowd to the wall street suits.

"We sell iPhones in over a hundred countries," a current Apple executive said. "We don't have an obligation to solve America's problems. Our only obligation is making the best product possible."

While these same A-holes run to the taxpayer funded US courts to protect their empires and use the US tax code to keep as much for themselves as possible, let someone else take care of America's problems while they reap the rewards is what they say.

And this happened long before Trump under Obama/Biden, only someone blind or drinking the Democrat corporate Koolaid would be delusional enough to think Biden is somehow going to fix it.





But as Steve Jobs of Apple spoke, Obama interrupted with an inquiry of his own: What would it take to make iPhones in the United States?

Not long ago, Apple boasted that its products were made in America. Today, few are. Almost all of the 70 million iPhones, 30 million iPads and 59 million other products Apple sold last year were manufactured overseas.

Why can't that work come home? Obama asked.

Jobs' reply was unambiguous. "Those jobs aren't coming back," he said, according to another dinner guest.

The president's question touched upon a central conviction at Apple. It isn't just that workers are cheaper abroad. Rather, Apple's executives believe the vast scale of overseas factories as well as the flexibility, diligence and industrial skills of foreign workers have so outpaced their U.S. counterparts that "Made in the USA" is no longer a viable option for most Apple products.

What has vexed Obama as well as economists and policymakers is that Apple — like many of its high-technology peers — is not nearly as avid in creating U.S. jobs as other famous companies were in their heydays.

Apple employs 43,000 people in the United States and 20,000 overseas, a small fraction of the more than 400,000 U.S. workers at General Motors in the 1950s, or the hundreds of thousands at General Electric in the 1980s. Many more people work for Apple's contractors: An additional 700,000 people engineer, build and assemble iPads, iPhones and Apple's other products. But almost none of them work in the United States.

"Apple's an example of why it's so hard to create middle-class jobs in the U.S. now," said Jared Bernstein, who until last year was an economic adviser to the White House.

"If it's the pinnacle of capitalism, we should be worried."

Apple executives say that going overseas, at this point, is their only option. One former executive described how the company relied upon a Chinese factory to revamp iPhone manufacturing just weeks before the device was due on shelves. Apple had redesigned the iPhone's screen at the last minute, forcing an assembly line overhaul. New screens began arriving at the plant near midnight.

A foreman immediately roused 8,000 workers inside the company's dormitories, according to the executive. Each employee was given a biscuit and a cup of tea, guided to a workstation and within half an hour started a 12-hour shift fitting glass screens into beveled frames. Within 96 hours, the plant was producing over 10,000 iPhones a day.

"The speed and flexibility is breathtaking," the executive said. "There's no American plant that can match that."

Apple's decisions pose broad questions about what corporate America owes Americans as the global and national economies are increasingly intertwined.

To thrive, companies argue they need to move work where it can generate enough profits to keep paying for innovation. Doing otherwise risks losing even more U.S. jobs over time, as evidenced by the legions of once-proud domestic manufacturers — including GM and others — that have shrunk as nimble competitors have emerged.


"We sell iPhones in over a hundred countries," a current Apple executive said. "We don't have an obligation to solve America's problems. Our only obligation is making the best product possible."


 

brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
30,061
31,021
136
Not if Biden or Trump is all you have to choose from, that free trade, democracy through free markets horse left the barn long ago, doesn't matter who is elected,

besides imagine trying to get the younger cell phone addicted generation with the attention span of a chicken to work in factories like the Chinese who make most of the throwaway shit they constantly buy to feel better about themselves.

WM7doDDJlrIB6i4fKZSF2s5buL-zmNL3WF81jXkFiOBuo493JbjG1R7O_mOgD3fHZ8wayEsASyw2b5qJ6KLhmFFKZpFqsVdlfI6I-49H-tSoVvXjidNQ1OLOOjXL_ju7sTDkK0VCeMIsd98


https%3A%2F%2Fspecials-images.forbesimg.com%2Fdam%2Fimageserve%2F38872814%2F960x0.jpg%3Ffit%3Dscale


And this quote from below is the reason America is the way it is and the same mentality you see in the me only matters executives has infected the country from the welfare crowd to the wall street suits.

"We sell iPhones in over a hundred countries," a current Apple executive said. "We don't have an obligation to solve America's problems. Our only obligation is making the best product possible."

While these same A-holes run to the taxpayer funded US courts to protect their empires and use the US tax code to keep as much for themselves as possible, let someone else take care of America's problems while they reap the rewards is what they say.

And this happened long before Trump under Obama/Biden, only someone blind or drinking the Democrat corporate Koolaid would be delusional enough to think Biden is somehow going to fix it.





Serious question:

Who do you think would do something about it? What do you propose?
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,809
6,364
126
Concentrating industry in one country is certainly flawed, but the reasons cited for being so by the OP are wrong. Others have correctly identified this as being a product of Greed and not because the Worker didn't want such things in their neighbourhood.
 
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glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
1,013
126
Concentrating industry in one country is certainly flawed, but the reasons cited for being so by the OP are wrong. Others have correctly identified this as being a product of Greed and not because the Worker didn't want such things in their neighbourhood.

Funny how when the producer makes it in a foreign country that's "greed" but when they hire illegal alien workers to reduce salary costs the same folks are like "YAY cheaper tomatoes!" and greed doesn't even get mentioned. Seems they're completely fine with greed and exploiting workers when the parameters are align with their situational morals and self-interest.
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
80,287
17,082
136
WE did not move our industry to China because its dirty.
THEY did it so they wouldn't have to pay laborers minimum wage or benefits.
WE still have dirty jobs all over this country.
This is completely unrelated to NIMBY.
 
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brandonbull

Diamond Member
May 3, 2005
6,365
1,223
126
Whether you believe it is financial sense or just environmental NIMBYism, the fact is we have moved almost all our dirty industry and manufacturing to China.

Now that the Chinese state is threatening to cut off our supply of vital medications, will we see a resurgence in domestic dirty manufacturing?


Or do we have to relearn the lessons of 1973-1974 all over again? Dependence on foreign manufacturing for anything necessary is a terribly frightening idea. If we don't see the light soon, global trade dependency ultimately will bring about the destruction of our economy and our nation.
How many more times do we need to be shown breaking our heavy dependency on China and the ME is a good thing before we commit to it?