Will there ever be a viable isolationist candidate?

[ntdz]

Originally posted by: FrancesBeansRevenge

Originally posted by: ntdz

Originally posted by: LumbergTech
the idea i get from this thread is that isolationism cant work because our companies are doing business elsewhere and we will have to kill people to maintain those businesses

Sadly, that is true to a certain extent. There is a reason we've been able to maintain our economic dominance over such an extended period. It happens to be that we push and threaten other countries to do what we want or they'll face consequences. Most of the time the consequences are behind the scenes, or economic or political in nature, but sometimes we use our military. It's just how we do things, I'm not saying it's right. We're in so far deep now though that it's extremely difficult to untangle ourselves from this scenario we've created.

Wow, I'm almost startled by your honesty. I believe you are exactly right about how we operate. Many people around the world share this view. This is why we as a nation are reviled in much of the world and, in the last few years, aren't even very well liked in strong ally nations.

No ones like a bully. Especially a bully that smiles at you and shakes your hand while pushing you over and then expects to be thanked for it.

Life for a bully is all well and good until a bigger, badder kid moves onto the block. Let's just hope that doesn't happen or they may choose to 'liberate' us.

We aren't the only ones, every major power operates in the same way. We're just the biggest so we get the most scorn.

 

[FrancesBeansRevenge]

Originally posted by: ntdz
We aren't the only ones, every major power operates in the same way. We're just the biggest so we get the most scorn.

Of course. But we're the empire of the times. Of the times. It won't last. It never does. Because of that, I would rather see us be the champion of adhering to international law and supporting due process through the UN rather than undermining these ideals.

IMHO, the ill will we are creating around the globe today will eventually come back and bite us in the ass.

 

[ntdz]

Originally posted by: FrancesBeansRevenge

Originally posted by: ntdz
We aren't the only ones, every major power operates in the same way. We're just the biggest so we get the most scorn.

Of course. But we're the empire of the times. Of the times. It won't last. It never does. Because of that, I would rather see us be the champion of adhering to international law and supporting due process through the UN rather than undermining these ideals.

IMHO, the ill will we are creating around the globe today will eventually come back and bite us in the ass.

Personally, I think we've done more good around the world than bad. BTW, you keep referring to the US as we, but your profile says Australia. Which is it?

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: Tuktuk
I mean you are invisioning these doomsday scenarios but New Zealand, Switzerland, Norway, etc. seem to be doing just fine. Another superpower would fill the void, likely the EU.

These countries are doing good because we are carrying the load for everyone when it comes to things like Iraq and the Kuwait invasion.

You just don?t seem to have a good grasp of history. We tried the isolationist thing pre-WW 2 and look at what we got.

You say another super power will emerge, when we left Europe another one did, Hitler.

I am not going to deny that Iraq is a mess, and it is largely our fault. We could have left Saddam in power and hoped the whole WMD and terrorist thing didn?t happen. But that is the past.

However, a lot of the other problems you try to blame on us were going to be problems no matter what. Somalia was a mess BEFORE we got there; our being there most likely saved or at least prolonged the lives of thousands of people who were being starved to death.

Same with Kosovo, although the death toll was much lower than we were told it was. It was still a mess and our ?interference? was one of the biggest accomplishments of Clinton.

Other places where our ?interference? has had a positive impact.
Afghanistan: how many people are now free? How many women are being beat in the street or hung in the soccer fields?
South Korea: by far our biggest success, look at the life style these people live compared to their neighbors to the north. Without us there ALL of Korea would most likely be like North Korea.
Haiti: Yes it is a mess, but it is still a democracy. Had Clinton not threatened the use of troops it would be most likely run by some dictator.
Israel: Israel is in great shape. Yes the Palestinians are a mess, but look at the people living in Syria. Egypt, Iran or even Saudi Arabia, are they in much better shape? Do they enjoy any more freedom? Without us there might not be an Israel, but that is not to say that the Palestine would be any better than Syria or Iran.

I am sure there are dozen of places in the world where just the threat of US ?interference? keeps things under control. Imagine how bad piracy would be in South East Asia without us around, it is already bad.
And look at all the little tin horn dictators in the world who are kept in check by the US just being around.

The US economy is the force that drives much of the world economy. And our economy is so great because it is protected by our military. You may not drive a SUV, but $5 a gallon would bring our economy to its knees like the gas crisis of the 70s did. Double digit unemployment etc etc.

I think you are living in this ?if we just leave them alone they will leave us alone? fairytale, and it doesn?t work like that.

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: FrancesBeansRevenge
IMHO, the ill will we are creating around the globe today will eventually come back and bite us in the ass.

I think you misconstrue the ?ill will? thing.
They all bitch about the US, but who is the first person they call when trouble breaks out?

If Putin decided to reestablish the Soviet empire you think you Europe would complain about us ?interfering?? Or do you think they would be on the phone asking for help?
France is one of the biggest complainers, but if Hitler Jr. took over Germany the French would all of a sudden start talking about how they helped us during the revolutionary war.

They complain because we are the biggest, and we always get ?our way.?
I hope you also realize that in MANY countries the people talk about how they love Americans, but hate our government. Again, this is resentment because we are so powerful and do what WE want and don?t have to listen to the UN etc. Meanwhile, Europe would have not been able to stop the Kosovo thing had we not been there. Right there in their backyard, and they couldn?t do anything about it.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally posted by: Genx87

No it just isnt possible period. If you want to see isolationism in its finest form look at N.Korea.

Wanna bet who has a higher standard of living between the United States and N.Korea?

North Korea is a strawman because comparing an "isolated" communist North Korea to an "isolated" free market United States is like comparing apples and oranges. A better example of an "isolationist" country would be Japan.

 

[Arkaign]

As a matter of national security it is imperative that the US become financially and energy-independent in matter of practicality. To do otherwise is to risk our very survival as a nation. Sadly, with such greed, selfishness, and short-sightedness, I believe that we shall perish from selling ourselves out, part and parcel until we have nothing but debt, interest, decay, and energy expenses that are greater or equal for a family than their yearly income.

A very real look at history reveals that each society seems to live like there's no tomorrow, until there TRULY isn't. At least not as it ever existed before.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally posted by: Tuktuk
Personally (and I know this doesn't apply to the country as a whole), I do not need a giant SUV and $5/gallon gasoline wouldn't directly affect me too much as far as driving habits go. I understand it would have implications on the rest of the economy, but given time to recover the economy would be just as stable as other nations with high gasoline prices.

Don't kid yourself. $5/gallon gasoline will significantly affect how we live in this country (imagine the expenses for transporting goods dispersing themselves everywhere) and it will have a large impact on the physical mobility of the lower classes.