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Will the Supreme Court ever decide on whether or not we can video record police?

Mai72

Lifer
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/12/illinois-again-moves-to-ban-recording-the-police/

Illinois is going to move forward again to ban videotaping of police officers. I doubt that they are going to win, so I'm not worried about this. What I'm concerned about is this could head to the Supreme Court, and if it does videotaping police could be against the law. Why? Because the majority of the Supreme Court is filled with Republican leaning justices.

What's the chance that this could happen? Our smartphones are our only weapon that we have to use against the police. It's what keeps them honest. Take that away and we're screwed.
 
You might also want some court to tell you it is okay to go to the bathroom?

Yes, you can go to the bathroom.

-John
 
Will the Supreme Court ever decide on whether or not we can video record police?

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/12/illinois-again-moves-to-ban-recording-the-police/

Illinois is going to move forward again to ban videotaping of police officers. I doubt that they are going to win, so I'm not worried about this. What I'm concerned about is this could head to the Supreme Court, and if it does videotaping police could be against the law. Why? Because the majority of the Supreme Court is filled with Republican leaning justices.

What's the chance that this could happen? Our smartphones are our only weapon that we have to use against the police. It's what keeps them honest. Take that away and we're screwed.

Notice ArsTechnica has a section called Law and Disorder

I'm sure the usual suspects in here such as the Merge guy are thrilled with this

The Illinois legislation precludes people from recording the police, even in a public setting

The law, a felony, carries a maximum penalty of up to four years for recording the police
 
actually i do see this going to the SC and, it being decided it is against the law to record police...


we're in an authoritarian police state, they definitely do not give up control, they only take more.

i'm not even being cynical, that's just really the truth of the matter, that's really the type of place we live in now.
 
http://www.courtroomstrategy.com/2012/11/supreme-court-upholds-legality-of-videotaping-police/

This Monday, the U.S. Supreme Court declined to review a decision by the 7th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals blocking the enforcement of an Illinois eavesdropping law. The broadly written law makes it a felony to make an audio recording of someone without their permission, punishable by four to 15 years in prison. In most states, like NY, only one person needs to consent, so the consent of the person who is recording it is enough to make it legal.

Many states, however, including Illinois, have “all-party consent” law, which means all parties to a conversation must agree to being recorded before recording it can be done. But in all of those states — except for Massachusetts and Illinois — the laws include a provision that the parties being recorded must have a reasonable expectation of privacy for it to be a crime to record them. Since police do not have an expectation of privacy while they are doing their work on the public street, video or audio recording of a police officers would not be banned.

The Illinois legislature took out “the reasonable expectation of privacy” exception specifically to make it illegal to videotape police officers. The Illinois law then became one of the most toughest eavesdropping laws in the country. It was often used to arrest people who attempted to record on-duty police officers and other public officials. Of course, it contains an exception to allow law enforcement to record folks without their consent for valid law enforcement purposes. It also exempts broadcasters.

The lawsuit that led to this decision was filed by the American Civil Liberties Union, which is planning a Police Accountability Project in Chicago that will involve recording police officers while they’re on duty. The ACLU wanted to be sure its employees and volunteers wouldn’t be charged with felonies.

In May of this year, The Federal Appeals Court that covers Illinois, the 7th Circuit found a specific First Amendment right to record police officers. The Illinois State Attorney General had actually argued that the law does not prohibit free speech, it merely makes it illegal to record audio. The 7th Circuit rejected that narrow approach, stating the obvious:


Audio and audiovisual recording are communication technologies,and as such, they enable speech. Criminalizing all nonconsensual audio recording necessarily limits the information that might later be published or broadcast—whether to the general public or to a single family member or friend—and thus burdens First Amendment rights. If as the State’s Attorney would have it,the eavesdropping statute does not implicate the First Amendment at all, the State could effectively control or suppress speech by the simple expedient of restricting an early step in the speech process rather than the end result. We have no trouble rejecting that premise.Audio recording is entitled to First Amendment protection.

It’s the second federal appeals court to strike down a conviction for recording police. In August 2011, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the First Circuit (covering Massachusetts) ruled that a man wrongly arrested for recording cops could sue the arresting officers for violating his First Amendment rights. That decision also found a broad First Amendment right to record on-duty government officials in public:


“Gathering information about government officials in a form that can readily be disseminated to others serves a cardinal First Amendment interest in protecting and promoting ‘the free discussion of governmental affairs.'”

The Supreme Court this Monday refused to grant certiorari (review) in the case. This means no opinion was written by the Supremes, the court just denied further review of the issue. Denial of certiorari also doesn’t necessarily mean the justices endorse the lower court’s ruling. It does mean, however, that at least six of the nine current justices weren’t so opposed to the ruling that they felt the case needed to be heard.

It is now technically legal to record on-duty police officers in every state in the country.Unfortunately, people are still being arrested for it and will likely continue to be arrested for it. Police officers who want to make an arrest to intimidate videographers can always use broadly-written laws that prohibit “disorderly conduct,” “obstruction of governmental administration” or similar ordinances that give law enforcement wide discretion. In fact, earlier this year I represented a man on Long Island who was arrested for disorderly conduct for videotaping officers during a drug bust occurring on a public street. The charges were subsequently dropped before he even had to appear in court. Yet, he was arrested, handcuffed, brought into the precinct and more importantly prevented from continuing the taping of the arrest. He was happy to not be charged and did not want to bring any more attention to himself, so he declined to bring a lawsuit or to make a public statement of any kind. Who won in that battle?

This decision does strengthen the right of citizens to videotape police officers in public. Let’s hope it also makes police officers more aware that courts will not support the arresting of individuals who are just exercising their Free Speech rights.
 
Mai, do you read what you write sometimes? You proactively bashed the Republican-leaning Scotus (which, btw, has already declined to reverse the Federal Appeals Court - see Jedi's post above), assuming they would "make it against the law" (something they can't do to begin with), yet completely ignored that this law was pushed through a Democrat-led Illinois legislature and signed by a Democrat Governor.
 
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Mai, do you read what you write sometimes? You proactively bashed the Republican-leaning Scotus (which, btw, has already declined to reverse the Federal Appeals Court - see Jedi's post above), assuming they would "make it against the law" (something they can't do to begin with), yet completely ignored that this law was pushed through a Democrat-led Illinois legislature and signed by a Democrat Governor.

Now that's an interesting argument.
 
Mai, do you read what you write sometimes? You proactively bashed the Republican-leaning Scotus (which, btw, has already declined to reverse the Federal Appeals Court - see Jedi's post above), assuming they would "make it against the law" (something they can't do to begin with), yet completely ignored that this law was pushed through a Democrat-led Illinois legislature and signed by a Democrat Governor.

Ding, winnar!

Also, Mai72 takes a shot at the evil right wing scotus without any evidence, and conveniently ignores the fact that only two states that have multi-party consent requirements for recording do not have include the "reasonable expectation of privacy" exception -- Illinois and Massachusetts. Obviously, those are two bastions of right wing rule, places where the evil righties dominate the legislature and governors office. Oh, wait... 😉

The legislature that passed the horrible legislation OP linked (in Illinois) is all democrat controlled, and the governor is a democrat. OP then whines that the scotus with it's evil righties could be at fault in the future if they fail to rule such legislation unconstitutional. Brilliant logic.

I wish the court had taken up the case so they could once and for all broadly strike down laws that prevent people from recording public actions of police officers, but that will have to wait for another day. Regardless, this should not be a scotus or court issue at all. We should demand that our legislative representatives make the laws such that we keep our freedoms. Voting in idiots that write legislation restricting our rights and then hoping the courts curb such legislation is stupid.
 
Republicans are always the enemy. It's a nice little portrait that the Democrats have painted, and a lot of bootlickers have fallen for it hook, line, and sinker.
 
As somebody pointed out. The courts have already ruled it constitutional to video tape public servants in public. That will be the precedent going forward until an appeals court has a different opinion. Then I would expect the Supreme Court to take it up to settle the dispute.
 
http://www.courtroomstrategy.com/2012/11/supreme-court-upholds-legality-of-videotaping-police/

This Monday, the U.S. Supreme Court declined to review a decision by the 7th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals blocking the enforcement of an Illinois eavesdropping law. The broadly written law makes it a felony to make an audio recording of someone without their permission, punishable by four to 15 years in prison. In most states, like NY, only one person needs to consent, so the consent of the person who is recording it is enough to make it legal.

Many states, however, including Illinois, have “all-party consent” law, which means all parties to a conversation must agree to being recorded before recording it can be done. But in all of those states — except for Massachusetts and Illinois — the laws include a provision that the parties being recorded must have a reasonable expectation of privacy for it to be a crime to record them. Since police do not have an expectation of privacy while they are doing their work on the public street, video or audio recording of a police officers would not be banned.

The Illinois legislature took out “the reasonable expectation of privacy” exception specifically to make it illegal to videotape police officers. The Illinois law then became one of the most toughest eavesdropping laws in the country. It was often used to arrest people who attempted to record on-duty police officers and other public officials. Of course, it contains an exception to allow law enforcement to record folks without their consent for valid law enforcement purposes. It also exempts broadcasters.

The lawsuit that led to this decision was filed by the American Civil Liberties Union, which is planning a Police Accountability Project in Chicago that will involve recording police officers while they’re on duty. The ACLU wanted to be sure its employees and volunteers wouldn’t be charged with felonies.

In May of this year, The Federal Appeals Court that covers Illinois, the 7th Circuit found a specific First Amendment right to record police officers. The Illinois State Attorney General had actually argued that the law does not prohibit free speech, it merely makes it illegal to record audio. The 7th Circuit rejected that narrow approach, stating the obvious:

Audio and audiovisual recording are communication technologies,and as such, they enable speech. Criminalizing all nonconsensual audio recording necessarily limits the information that might later be published or broadcast—whether to the general public or to a single family member or friend—and thus burdens First Amendment rights. If as the State’s Attorney would have it,the eavesdropping statute does not implicate the First Amendment at all, the State could effectively control or suppress speech by the simple expedient of restricting an early step in the speech process rather than the end result. We have no trouble rejecting that premise.Audio recording is entitled to First Amendment protection.

It’s the second federal appeals court to strike down a conviction for recording police. In August 2011, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the First Circuit (covering Massachusetts) ruled that a man wrongly arrested for recording cops could sue the arresting officers for violating his First Amendment rights. That decision also found a broad First Amendment right to record on-duty government officials in public:

“Gathering information about government officials in a form that can readily be disseminated to others serves a cardinal First Amendment interest in protecting and promoting ‘the free discussion of governmental affairs.'”

The Supreme Court this Monday refused to grant certiorari (review) in the case. This means no opinion was written by the Supremes, the court just denied further review of the issue. Denial of certiorari also doesn’t necessarily mean the justices endorse the lower court’s ruling. It does mean, however, that at least six of the nine current justices weren’t so opposed to the ruling that they felt the case needed to be heard.

It is now technically legal to record on-duty police officers in every state in the country.Unfortunately, people are still being arrested for it and will likely continue to be arrested for it. Police officers who want to make an arrest to intimidate videographers can always use broadly-written laws that prohibit “disorderly conduct,” “obstruction of governmental administration” or similar ordinances that give law enforcement wide discretion. In fact, earlier this year I represented a man on Long Island who was arrested for disorderly conduct for videotaping officers during a drug bust occurring on a public street. The charges were subsequently dropped before he even had to appear in court. Yet, he was arrested, handcuffed, brought into the precinct and more importantly prevented from continuing the taping of the arrest. He was happy to not be charged and did not want to bring any more attention to himself, so he declined to bring a lawsuit or to make a public statement of any kind. Who won in that battle?

This decision does strengthen the right of citizens to videotape police officers in public. Let’s hope it also makes police officers more aware that courts will not support the arresting of individuals who are just exercising their Free Speech rights.
It's unfortunate that your client didn't pursue a lawsuit. Only if police departments and individual police are brought to task for such violations of civil liberties will they learn that there's a price to pay for arrest-in-order-to-intimidate tactics.
 
As somebody pointed out. The courts have already ruled it constitutional to video tape public servants in public. That will be the precedent going forward until an appeals court has a different opinion. Then I would expect the Supreme Court to take it up to settle the dispute.

This is still meaningless if the police are allowed to ignore such rulings with impunity.
 
This is still meaningless if the police are allowed to ignore such rulings with impunity.

Agreed. As a legal matter, yes, you have the right to record. As a practical matter, too many cops are still punishing/arresting people for recording, and confiscating cameras, or deleting recordings and so forth.

Without clear direction that such activities will be punished, they will continue to do so.
 
As somebody pointed out. The courts have already ruled it constitutional to video tape public servants in public. That will be the precedent going forward until an appeals court has a different opinion. Then I would expect the Supreme Court to take it up to settle the dispute.

Wrong, Obama has a bill on his desk to sign banning recording Police as well as allowing Police to confiscate your phone or camera and erase any recording you have made.

12-12-2014

http://beta.slashdot.org/story/210963

Congress Passes Bill Allowing Warrantless Forfeiture of Private Communications



Congress has quietly passed an Intelligence Authorization Bill that includes warrantless forfeiture of private communications to local law enforcement. Representative Justin Amash unsuccessfully attempted a late bid to oppose the bill, which passed 325-100. According to Amash, the bill "grants the executive branch virtually unlimited access to the communications of every American."

According to the article, a provision in the bill allows “the acquisition, retention, and dissemination” of Americans’ communications without a court order or subpoena.
==============================

Here is another woman arrested for videoing the Police from her car:

12-12-2014

http://beta.slashdot.org/story/210991

Once Again, Baltimore Police Arrest a Person For Recording Them



A lawsuit was filed yesterday over a case in which a woman was arrested for recording the police from her car while stopped in traffic. Ars Technica writes, "Police erased the 135-second recording from the woman's phone, but it was recovered from her cloud account according to the Circuit Court for Baltimore City lawsuit, which seeks $7 million."
 
People need to be more discrete until this stuff gets worked out. Instead of yelling the police "Yo, I got you on tape!" "I'm recording all this shit pig!" Just stand aside with your camera at your hip (widescreen please, not up and down.) Don't announce it. Walk away and post it on the internet, or if something crazy happened, make a back up and then take a copy to the police department's sheriff.
 
You can video tape them. You just can't interfere with their work. I.E., you can't run up into a homicide scene and videotape them measuring blood spatter. You can't get within striking distance of them if they are having to fight people.

Also, recording them cannot be used as a blanket from other charges. You stop your car in the middle of a busy street to video tape, you need to keep moving. You can be arrested for that and then forced to stop videotaping once in custody.
 
What do you mean ignore such rulings?

Despite rulings and laws allowing recording of police in public, police continue to arrest those seen recording police activities. And they continue to destroy recordings and equipment. Even when police actions fall short of arrests, police frequently intimidate people into stopping their recordings.
 
You can video tape them. You just can't interfere with their work. I.E., you can't run up into a homicide scene and videotape them measuring blood spatter. You can't get within striking distance of them if they are having to fight people.

Also, recording them cannot be used as a blanket from other charges. You stop your car in the middle of a busy street to video tape, you need to keep moving. You can be arrested for that and then forced to stop videotaping once in custody.

This is all true. But even people recording from safe distances are frequently harassed by police.

I hope that body-camera technology advances to the point where batteries and memory allow 24/7 recording, and price reductions allow private individuals to routinely (and covertly) wear them to discreetly record almost everything going on around them in public.
 
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