Will the Supreme Court condemn this 3 year old girl to die?

[monovillage]

Because we all know that interpreting the Constitution is a precise science when a conservative decision is make, but is a just a matter of undisciplined overreaching when a liberal decision is made.

Yes, thank you.

 

[cubby1223]

Because we all know that interpreting the Constitution is a precise science when a conservative decision is make, but is a just a matter of undisciplined overreaching when a liberal decision is made.

Are you incapable of following context with the trail of posts?

Or were you trying to make some sort of joke that just failed?

 

[boomerang]

Really? Medicare has an administrative cost of about 3%. How does that compare to the private sector?

This is a talking point of the left that the right rarely if ever makes comment on because it is so ridiculous as to not warrant comment. Well, it's time.

It's a meaningless statistic. You can waste billions and do it with little overhead.

 

[sportage]

Well I'll play devil’s advocate here.

Obamacare was indeed flawed. Passes only after much arm twisting. What Obama crossed the country preaching, as candidate Obama, was the universal aspect.
That died.
That was lost.

The good from Obamacare is, and consistently polls as such from both democrats as well as polled republicans, is the pre-existing elimination and the ability for older children to remain on parents policies past the age of 18.

So the question is, was getting some of the good worth the living with the bad?
Something just doesn’t smell right when that cost has to be offset, and only can be offset, by adding in THE MANDATE.
The MANDATE is a great idea, a fair idea for the insured that get tired of paying higher rates to cover those unwilling to get insured. The mandate is a good idea on own merits.
At one time even republicans agreed on that.
But the problem is when THE MANDATE became a must, in order to achieve the overall goal.
A good healthcare reform bill should be able to survive on its own merits regardless of the MANDATE clause. For its success to hang on that MANDATE clause just doesn’t seem like solid ground when it comes to overall reform.

The healthy young of society should be able to get healthcare thru employers for only pennies a month. In most cases the young worker should have that cost paid by the employer as part of the benefit package. The cost of covering those young healthy workers should be easily affordable.

But when you have a bad healthcare bill rushed thru the congress in the wee hours of the morning, under closed door shady dealing and arm twisting, the result is a cost for those young to get healthcare being ridiculously high.
That was the fault of the healthcare bill as passed.
Requiring the young worker to obtain healthcare at rates usually only seen by those over the age of 55. This simply is not right.

The correct path would have been to either implant that universal clause in the final bill, or start all over from square one.
Or… simply call the universal clause “Medicare for all”, and then do exactly that. Expand Medicare as an option for those uninsured.

If I could actually believe any political party could go back to the drawing board and reset the goal to the original goal of healthcare for all, universal coverage or Medicare for all, then I would be all for the court striking down the mandate in this current case.

But sadly.. the reality will be in striking down the mandate, turning back the clock to the mercy of the insurance industry for profit, and then watching your rates skyrocket like you cannot imagine.

If Obamacare is dismantled, forget about affordable insurance for any American. Within months the industry will raise your current insurance rates ten times tens of tens. And for those with no insurance, pre-existing’s of any sort, good luck fending on your own.

 

[werepossum]

Premiums are already skyrocketing (130% in 9 years). Most analysts (including third parties) showed that under ACA this would either stay the same or decline slightly. This law has a provision so that if 80% of premiums aren't used towards paying for healthcare then the difference must be returned to the purchaser at the end of the year. That should at least ensure the money is going towards what it is designed for.

On a side note, we both already know health care is being rationed. Ignoring 10-20% of the population's healthcare needs is rationing. Ignoring people with pre-existing conditions is rationing. It's a service just like any other and really if there is a problem is that we need more health care providers (and cheaper education for them).

Everything of value that requires labor and/or resources to create is inherently rationed. This is true even if government provides it. If however you think premiums are going to stay the same or decline, you are sadly mistaken. Obamacare pretty much puts the bureaucrats totally in charge of health insurance, and in the case of the Obama administration these are bureaucrats that hate private insurance companies with a passion AND believe firmly in the concept of a free lunch. They have already begun increasing the number of things that MUST be provided for free; that HAS to drive premiums up. Even the various not-for-profit Blue Crosses have to at least break even. Before the election Obama told an audience that we probably won't be able to end employer-provided health insurance right away. This is true, but if he can keep Obamacare going he knows he can end it within a decade or two simply by driving up the cost. Either your company will be unable to afford it, or your company will be out-competed in the market by a foreign company or one that has already stopped providing health care.

The alternative is to create a public financed system of basic (or catastrophic) care through something like a national sales tax. That ultimately may end up being a better system anyway, as everyone would be paying into it regardless of their citizenship status.

I'd love to see a national sales tax replacing corporate and individual income taxes, but I'd hate to see an additional tax without one going away. But yes, there has to be some sort of system. I'd like to see fifty states competing to provide the best health care/health insurance to all its citizens so that we can examine each system and choose the best, but it's pretty obvious that it's to be Medicare for all of us. For most of us this will be a BIG step down, but for those with no health insurance it will be a step up as they will be able to get a level of care between the inexpensive and the very serious, from which they are now excluded.

Of course, Medicare is the only insurance system that people with it have to supplement with additional insurance. It also exists by the federal government using its status as the 600 lb gorilla to shift its costs to to its competition, which won't be possible once it's the only game in town.

 

[Hacp]

http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/27/health/health-care-insurance-lifetime-caps/index.html?hpt=he_t2

This makes me so upset. Without this healthcare reform this 3 year old girl will die in a few year do to lack of insurance. I hope the people outside the courts praying that the justices throw out Obamacare know that they are condemning this 3 year old girl to death.

You can do something to help. There is nothing stopping you from donating your own money to help the girl out. She does not have to die!

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Republicare? You're going to blame what both parties have done to our health system over the last 100 years on the Republicans alone?

No wonder our country is fucked. Look no farther than yourself for the source of the problem.

Yes, I'm blaming the Republicans. The Democrats actually wanted to do something to change our system, and probably would have advocated national health care if the Republicans weren't screaming to the sheeple, "Socialism! Bad! Evil! Fear!".

So, I'm putting the onus of blame on the Republicans at this point. I think they now "own" the health care problem. They have proposed no legitimate solutions nor a plan and their only plan seems to be, "Don't get sick, and if you do get sick die slowly."

(I know you guys hate hearing that line repeated over and over again, but that's because it strikes so close to home.)

 

[WhipperSnapper]

You can do something to help. There is nothing stopping you from donating your own money to help the girl out. She does not have to die!

The point is that if we had real socialized medicine we would have a couple percentages worth of GDP to help the girl out as a result of the cost efficiency savings that result from socialized medicine. (The next closes nation to the U.S.'s 17% of GDP in terms of health care expenditures is about 12% of GDP.)

 

[Leon]

Ah yes. It always comes down to this. "Oh my god, think of TEH CHILDRENZ !!!!!!"
Whether it's porn, violent video games, or forced healthcare mandate, its always the same bullshit, every time.

Leon

 

[cubby1223]

The point is that if we had real socialized medicine we would have a couple percentages worth of GDP to help the girl out as a result of the cost efficiency savings that result from socialized medicine. (The next closes nation to the U.S.'s 17% of GDP in terms of health care expenditures is about 12% of GDP.)

Resources devoted to helping one person, are resources taken away from and not helping another person.

Republican or Democratic health care plan, there are not the resources available to take care of 100% of the medical problems for 100% of American citizens. There will always be someone who does not receive resources, regardless of whatever system you devise.

Our government debt is, what, ~$15.5 trillion? We don't have the doctor resources, nor the financial resources regardless of how much you want to say "let's take care of everyone."

Do you think it is wise to hand over full budgetary control to an entity that is $15.5 trillion in debt?

 

[Sunburn74]

I'm for the individual mandate (anyone who understands how insurance works should be in favor of it), but honestly what this country needs is a curbing of the individual freedoms that are making us so sick.

 

[monovillage]

I'm for the individual mandate (anyone who understands how insurance works should be in favor of it), but honestly what this country needs is a curbing of the individual freedoms that are making us so sick.

Absolutely! We need the government to tell us all how to live, eat, sleep, shit, fuck, sneeze, cough, walk, talk, think, act, wipe our asses and wash our hands so we can all be more healthy!
All that damn freedom is ruining this country for the Democrats.

 

[Sunburn74]

I'm just saying its rational to curb freedoms that are literally bankrupting a country. Ideas written by old men 200 years ago representing a completely different society don't necessarily fit in perfectly with the societies of today. They weren't that smart.

 

[monovillage]

I'm just saying its rational to curb freedoms that are literally bankrupting a country. Ideas written by old men 200 years ago representing a completely different society don't necessarily fit in perfectly with the societies of today. They weren't that smart.

I was just agreeing with you. Those damn founding fathers just fucked it up and made it so much harder for the Democrats to pass sensible laws to make sure we all behave properly. What were those damn guys thinking by recognizing so much freedom for the citizens! A free citizen is a danger to themselves and everyone around them. We need more controls on us, more sensible government controls to make sure we straighten up and fly right.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Oh, I totally agree. I just don't expect that this is where SCOTUS draws the bar. Nor, really, do I think they should. We as a society require hospitals to treat anyone with a life-threatening condition. No free lunch - a benefit like that also comes with a responsibility to help pay for it.

My dislike of the individual mandate isn't rooted in a belief in its unconstitutionality, nor in a moral objection. I just think that as a solution to the problem of people being unable to afford health insurance, requiring them to buy it or pay a fine is akin to "put all racism on a rocket and fly it into the sun."

I agree with your dislike, and also find it unconstitutional AND immoral. Triple whammy for me. I don't REALLY think they'll drop it...just hope. I would like to see the system fixed...with straight single payer and/or pure socialization...NOT a fascist hybrid.

 

[ericlp]

 

[Ninjahedge]

And what happens when they run out of money? How much health care do you think they'll be providing then?

Straw man. They are one of the most profitable "industries" in the US that essentially provides nothing. I believe I saw that they comprise upwards of 18% of the GDP of the US right now?

For what? Holding other peoples money in a pool until one of them gets sick?

When we stop rewarding people for doing good things, guess what? THEY WON'T DO THEM ANYMORE.

Insurance companies are NOT doing "good things". they are making money off the backs of OTHERS doing "good things".

 

[Ninjahedge]

Our government has NEVER done anything more efficiently or more cost-effectively than the private sector. Not one single thing. Look at the post office, the VA, the IRS.

Fortunately, it looks like the US government will run out of money before they drive all the insurance companies out of business. That's a pretty crappy silver lining, but there it is.

Look at military health care before you start spouting talking points.

 

[Ninjahedge]

So private companies don't put costs on the provider? What is medicare's 'real' overhead then and how does it compare?

Agreed.

Take a look at your next medical bill.

look at the part where is outlines the charges, then what the insurance company pays them. Then look at what you have to pay.

Although I am relieved that I only pay $20 for my kids doctor visit, to see the charge at $200 with the insurance only paying $43.29 is outrageous.

 

[DCal430]

Reading this thread shows just how selfish conservatives/republicans are. All they can think about is them self. They don't see that if we work together to better the lives of everyone, overall all of our lives will be better. At last no, they just seek to help the people at the top, because they have some fantasy that the rich elite will let them join one day.

 

[Ausm]

Reading this thread shows just how selfish conservatives/republicans are. All they can think about is them self. They don't see that if we work together to better the lives of everyone, overall all of our lives will be better. At last no, they just seek to help the people at the top, because they have some fantasy that the rich elite will let them join one day.

You made several Funnies in that last post!

 

[werepossum]

I agree with your dislike, and also find it unconstitutional AND immoral. Triple whammy for me. I don't REALLY think they'll drop it...just hope. I would like to see the system fixed...with straight single payer and/or pure socialization...NOT a fascist hybrid.

There is something to said for that. As we say in Tennessee, pick a side, ain't nothin' in the middle of the road but dead skunks.

Reading this thread shows just how selfish conservatives/republicans are. All they can think about is them self. They don't see that if we work together to better the lives of everyone, overall all of our lives will be better. At last no, they just seek to help the people at the top, because they have some fantasy that the rich elite will let them join one day.

LOL Conservatives/Republicans are so selfish, all they care about is themselves. I need free stuff and they won't give it to me!

 

[Naeeldar]

Straw man. They are one of the most profitable "industries" in the US that essentially provides nothing. I believe I saw that they comprise upwards of 18% of the GDP of the US right now?

one of the most profitable industries would be Pharma companies. Would of the least profitable is actually insurance companies. But lets not let facts get in the way of anything.

 

[shortylickens]

To be fair, Jesus's healthcare WAS free cuz he used magic powers.

In reality land there's no such thing as free health care. The majority of people would be paying to help the minority. And MOST healthcare issues in the United States are caused by unhealthy lifestyle. If I'm going to be paying for some sorry assholes quadruple bypass then I want a say in how he lives his life.

 

[Matt1970]

I'd love to be a fly on the wall when a disease stricken teabagger learns his insurance was rescinded based on a pre-existing condition.

Then he wouldn't the insurance to begin with.......Nice try though.