Will the political hostility ever cool down?

[Continuity]

First of all I'd like to say "Hello!" to the members of this forum, this is my first post.

There isn't any new information here, so you could move on if you want. I just felt like expressing my opinions on the topic of political hostility as it relates to us today.

I've been reading the posts on this forum (as well as the other forums on AnandTech) but somewhat reluctant to actually register and post. To be honest, it's somewhat intimidating because of how seemingly divided and hostile it can be sometimes. On both major sides I've seen lots of flaming and baiting, not that there isn't great discussions as well, because there are! I suppose I'm wondering if we really are as different or divided as we sometimes think we are...

I just wanted to share my thoughts on the matter because of some recent threads, some jokingly made and others not so much so. An example would be Blue State Secession. Really, in this latest election, every state was pretty close to an even split between voting for Kerry and Bush. The terms and derogatory names given to people on both sides (none of which I want to repeat) based on certain views or geographic location seems absurd given what I noted about the almost even split within states. The "blue" states were split as were the "red" states split...

Honestly, the current main parties are closer than you think, if you look at the extremely wide political spectrum, this country barely reaches much outside the center of this wide spectrum, don't you think? For the people that really think about politics, depending on perspective, pretty much any political view can be rationalized... Even so, it seems as though, today, people on either "side" view their beliefs as the singular way to achieve some kind of greatness, and that the other "side" is completely wrong or even stupid. I've seen people on both sides equate an entire political movement/line as that being for the unintelligent or sheep... Can you honestly say that every politician/professor/etc on either political line can be completely stupid or uninformed?

When it comes down to it, people in "red" states can validly believe in views defined by the Democrats just as people in "blue" states can validly believe in views defined by the Republicans, and this goes for pretty much every belief system, you just need to have a different perspective. I don't think many people believe in everything a party is there to represent either, but people will side with a party because some or most of their important beliefs are carried and fought for by the party. That's another thing it seems we all forget while we get hostile... you can't really isolate all the members of a party because of one issue.

Don't you wish people of differing views can get together and compromise without all the labels and general disregard for differing perspectives? Democrats befriend and stay friends with Democrats and Republicans befriend and stay friends with Republicans and try to stay away from people with differeng views... don't you see something wrong with that? Honestly, I think humans are bestowed with a great intelligence, one that should be able to cross these artifical boundaries and work more closely as a human race. It's very idealistic, but don't you think more can be achieved when the words are put aside and the thoughts/compromises reign? We could be so much further as the human race were it not for these things that seem at our very nature.. to bring upon our downfall.

I have a lot more to say, but I'd rather stop as this topic already grew bigger than I wanted it to be.

Please discuss your opinions on the matter of political hostility, but try to be calm.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Continuity
Topic Title: Will the political hostility ever cool down?

No

 

[PatboyX]

to be honest, ive let the forums take a backburner now that the election is over and sort of meditating on my positions, figuring out where i stand and what my options are as far as getting represented and feeling active in the political process in america. i think if you spend too much time reading this, watching cable news networks (which rely mainly on the "vs" format to save on time and production value) it does feel like very person is very hostile.
i think people get very passionate now because all the large issues can be boiled down to core beliefs that people hold as being "right."
its as though every political issue has taken on the tone of the abortion debate.

 

[TravisT]

I believe we will continue to see some hostility and dissapointment from the left over the next 4 years. I would, however, hope that the rage against Christians from the Democrats cools down a bit. It is very suprising to me that they went that low after the election to begin criticizing peoples beliefs just as a new agenda to convince the non-christian Republican voters that they are on the wrong side.

 

[conjur]

Any talk of secession is just knee-jerk reactionaries.

However, their complaints are valid. This country is moving more and more to the right and that's against the general progress of this nation, at least socially speaking.

 

[Rob9874]

Originally posted by: conjur
Any talk of secession is just knee-jerk reactionaries.

However, their complaints are valid. This country is moving more and more to the right and that's against the general progress of this nation, at least socially speaking.

How do you figure? The mainstream of the country has been moving more and more to the right, regardless of what you see in Michael Moore mockumentaries.

 

[gsaldivar]

Originally posted by: conjur
This country is moving more and more to the right and that's against the general progress of this nation, at least socially speaking.

In your opinion.

 

[gsaldivar]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Continuity
Topic Title: Will the political hostility ever cool down?

No

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Rob9874

Originally posted by: conjur
Any talk of secession is just knee-jerk reactionaries.

However, their complaints are valid. This country is moving more and more to the right and that's against the general progress of this nation, at least socially speaking.

How do you figure? The mainstream of the country has been moving more and more to the right, regardless of what you see in Michael Moore mockumentaries.

No, it's not.

Look at the progression of our country:

Abolished slavery.
Gave women the right to vote.
Gave blacks the right to vote.
Ended racial discrimination.

There's a general trend toward more social liberty as our country progresses.

 

[rudder]

Originally posted by: gsaldivar

Originally posted by: conjur
This country is moving more and more to the right and that's against the general progress of this nation, at least socially speaking.

In your opinion.

And if you don;t like his opinion, well your just wrong.

 

[TMPadmin]

Continuity: I don't know why you bothered to join. The divide between the members here has gotten out of hand. I have not seen an intelligent, thought out argument for a long time (which is why I haven't been around). But then I get suck back in.

The racial slamming, hate, and general lack of respect for fellow humans or at least fellow AT P&N members has risen each week here. One thing that is gone and not been addressed by the mods is the attack on those who have a religion. If you have a belief that is remotely moral based you are branded a Religious bigot.

Well, that said hope you stick around.

 

[dmcowen674]

Looks like there are small pockets of the next generation that can still think for themselves and worry about the Radical Religious Right path the Country is on.

Don't worry I'm sure these kids will be sucked up by a local church and brainwashed very soon never to be heard from again.

Republican Religous Right Wingers are on their way as we speak in fact to convert them.

11-5-2004 Students at Colo. High School Protest Bush

BOULDER, Colo. - About 85 high school students upset about the nation's direction were camping out in the school library, demanding an audience with Republican leaders.

"We want them to reassure us that our fears are misguided and that the government is doing everything in its power to prevent our futures from being destroyed," said senior Brian Martens, who wore a hand-lettered T-shirt which said he was the "senior executive of the subcommittee on protesting stuff."

Students said they are not protesting the election, but are worried about the national debt, military recruitment in schools and the environment.

 

[TMPadmin]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Looks like there are small pockets of the next generation that can still think for themselves and worry about the Radical Religious Right path the Country is on.

Don't worry I'm sure these kids will be sucked up by a local church and brainwashed very soon never to be heard from again.

Republican Religous Right Wingers are on their way as we speak in fact to convert them.

11-5-2004 Students at Colo. High School Protest Bush

BOULDER, Colo. - About 85 high school students upset about the nation's direction were camping out in the school library, demanding an audience with Republican leaders.

"We want them to reassure us that our fears are misguided and that the government is doing everything in its power to prevent our futures from being destroyed," said senior Brian Martens, who wore a hand-lettered T-shirt which said he was the "senior executive of the subcommittee on protesting stuff."

Students said they are not protesting the election, but are worried about the national debt, military recruitment in schools and the environment.

See what I mean?

 

[Continuity]

Thanks for posting in this thread everyone! It's a shame though that even in this thread I sense some hostility...

As you all can see, I'm very inexperienced at trying to get my views across. It's alright though, I still believe we aren't as different as we think we are, it's just an image we hold up, I'm not quite sure though. I mean, maybe some isolate people into categories to make it easier to disassociate themselves from them, or maybe they really do think on a subconscious level that we really are worlds apart.

Originally posted by: TMPadmin
Continuity: I don't know why you bothered to join. The divide between the members here has gotten out of hand. I have not seen an intelligent, thought out argument for a long time (which is why I haven't been around). But then I get suck back in.

The racial slamming, hate, and general lack of respect for fellow humans or at least fellow AT P&N members has risen each week here. One thing that is gone and not been addressed by the mods is the attack on those who have a religion. If you have a belief that is remotely moral based you are branded a Religious bigot.

Well, that said hope you stick around.

Thanks for your concern! :heart:

I don't think I'll leave because of the division, it's just harder to make my point. Although, I will generally disagree on something you said. I do see intelligence when people post, even if its divisive, it's just that I think the intelligence is used in a way that can only bring harm... Clearly most people here are intelligent, some just become overwhelmed by anger or a feeling of being different, and generally most people have a high opinion of themselves, so they will defend themselves on what they see as their unique views. It's great in some ways, to feel strongly, but I don't think we need to feel that others are worlds apart either... the people on the other side feel just as strong and for just as justified reasons, just thinking of things from a different perspective. We should use our personal strength not to make a point against people, or finding "proof" that one side is right and the other is wrong... but instead we should use that personal strength to recognize that people are formed by their environment and experiences, and we should all work together in finding a balance.

 

[Caminetto]

I don't see how hostility will decrease any over the next four years. Iraq has great potential for turning into a mess (not unsimiliar to Vietnam), deficits likely continue, and further distance between the rich and poor. As an older person, I have observed a counrty that for many, many years was one where the appropriate political stance for the majority was slightly left of center. Now there has been a shift to the right (yes, due largely to the right's successful demonizing of the left as responsible for all current problems). Furthering our division are those fundamentalists, who have aligned themselves politically with the far right, have even captured the name Christian, and determined that it is not enough to believe that Jesus was the Christ of God and act in accordance with his teachings, but teach the need to follow a fundamental view in order to be Christian.
These are issues central to who we are as a nationand the beliefs are extremely strong on each side.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: TMPadmin
If you have a belief that is remotely moral based you are branded a Religious bigot.

Only when you try to impose your Religious beliefs on others. You can have your mythical beliefs as far as I am concerned, just don't expect me to abide by them.

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: Continuity
Topic Title: Will the political hostility ever cool down?

I'm inclined to think it won't, at least not any time soon.

And I'm not persuaded it's an all-together bad thing. ATM I see only three ways that it could cool down:

(1) the American people became apathetic (uncaring) toward their government which would certainly lesson the passions. Of course in general, it is felt that for a successful democracy it is essential to have the participation of the people governed. So apathy, would be considered a bad thing in this context.

(2) all American people develope the demeanor of a "dispassionate professional". That is they develope the ability to anaylize polical issues in an intellectual manner mostly devoid of emotion. Needless to say, this is unrealistic.

or (3) they develope a Borg-like homongeny (sp?, is this word?) of opinion, such that there is no disagreement on political policy etc. This is also completely unrealistic.

I think an appropriate measure would to try and moderate the passions. Yes, get them interested in the issues, even "emotionaly invested" in them. This is how we ensure interest in government and turn-out at election time. But IMO, too often the national media allows immature and incindiary comment in an effort to drum this interest. We don't need the vulgar name calling so often present (Lying Lairs and the Big Fat Lies They Tell, Draft Dodger, and the many incindiary claims made about a purported stolen election last time etc) and "dirty tricks" like CBS's forged documents. These examples tend to be picked up by average Americans and adopted as "normal" behavior. The forged document type-occurances enrage people like when their favorite sports team falls due to bad referring or outright cheating.

Some more "grown up" behavior on the part of the more bombastic elements in our National discourse would go a long way towards encouraging more civilized behavior in our citizens. But unfortunatley, "restraint" on the part of our media is sadly lacking in many ways. And not just in this country.

I understand you're reluctance to post here (in fact I share it). This section of AT and the OT section seem to attract the basest sort of individual. Many of whom seem to view flaming as a sport and/or have a self inflated view of themselves. I rarely post here and am only a member of AT due to my interest in computing. Perhaps I will see you in the technical sections:thumbsup:

Fern

 

[Infohawk]

Welcome. But be aware the goal of P&N is not to be a civilized forum for calm and in depth dialogue. It is mostly a safety valve that prevents the other, more respectable, forums from being overwhelmed.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: TravisT
I believe we will continue to see some hostility and dissapointment from the left over the next 4 years. I would, however, hope that the rage against Christians from the Democrats cools down a bit. It is very suprising to me that they went that low after the election to begin criticizing peoples beliefs just as a new agenda to convince the non-christian Republican voters that they are on the wrong side.

Political hostility will continue to be a problem as long as opinions like this are the norm.

"It's the other side that hates, my side is a bunch of perfect angels."

What a crock. The only way to make the process more civil is for EVERYONE to sit down, restrain their emotions and discuss things in a civil manner. It's natural to see everyone else's flaws before your own, but we're not going to solve anything when people post about how all the hatred is from the other side while sporting a sig that suggests if you voted for Kerry, you are like a terrorist. And that goes for the liberals too. Preaching peace with the conservatives while posting about how they are stupid, blind, religious zealots isn't helping anything.

I realize there are a lot of people who are really trying to find some common ground, you guys are the only people who can eventually move this country forward. People like TravisT and his liberal equivalents screaming about how all the hate is from the other side are just making things worse. You guys aren't just making yourselves look stupid, you are holding back the progress of society.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: TravisT
I believe we will continue to see some hostility and dissapointment from the left over the next 4 years. I would, however, hope that the rage against Christians from the Democrats cools down a bit. It is very suprising to me that they went that low after the election to begin criticizing peoples beliefs just as a new agenda to convince the non-christian Republican voters that they are on the wrong side.

How about we just reat you guys like you treat the gays!

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Continuity
Topic Title: Will the political hostility ever cool down?

No

And it never will. When you start a war for all the right reasons, you bring a country together. When you start one for all the wrong reasons, you tear the country apart.

For that sole reason alone, Bush will never have the support of more than half this country.

 

[Darkhawk28]

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Continuity
Topic Title: Will the political hostility ever cool down?

No

And it never will. When you start a war for all the right reasons, you bring a country together. When you start one for all the wrong reasons, you tear the country apart.

For that sole reason alone, Bush will never have the support of more than half this country.

:thumbsup:

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Continuity
Topic Title: Will the political hostility ever cool down?

No

And it never will. When you start a war for all the right reasons, you bring a country together. When you start one for all the wrong reasons, you tear the country apart.

For that sole reason alone, Bush will never have the support of more than half this country.

:beer:

 

[Alistar7]

"Don't Worry, I'll Move Out Of The US...The Day The Draft Starts"


LMAO, typical.....

I'll hang out for rights I don't feel an

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: Alistar7
"Don't Worry, I'll Move Out Of The US...The Day The Draft Starts"


LMAO, typical.....

I'll hang out for rights I don't feel an

If we're drafted for a legitimate war on terror, I would gladly serve and put my life on the line.

I'm not going to risk my life for janitorial duty in the Middle East, however.