Will the $49 Win 7 "upgrade" work on a new HDD?

giantpinkbunnyhead

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Dec 7, 2005
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Hi guys,

I'm thinking of getting this Win 7 upgrade for $49 before the offer expires today but I don't know if I'll be able to actually USE it.

I built a new computer, with a new HDD, so it didn't have any OS on it. I installed the Win 7 RC for now, instead of installing XP which I DO have a disc for.

Since this $49 Win 7 is an upgrade, I'm guessing it won't actually work unless it detects a previous Windows program on my HDD? Is that correct? Or, is there a way I can make the upgrade work without having to install XP over the RC, just so I can "upgrade" back to Win 7?

 

Athena

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Apr 9, 2001
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Originally posted by: giantpinkbunnyhead
Since this $49 Win 7 is an upgrade, I'm guessing it won't actually work unless it detects a previous Windows program on my HDD? Is that correct?
That's correct. To use the Win7 upgrade disk, you would have to wipe your disk, use your XP disk then run the Win7 installer...which will wipe your disk again.

 

Underclocked

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Oct 9, 1999
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I don't think we know that for certain just yet. If the double install trick works, you very well may be able to install on a clean drive. I hope so.
 

giantpinkbunnyhead

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Dec 7, 2005
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Originally posted by: Athena
Originally posted by: giantpinkbunnyhead
Since this $49 Win 7 is an upgrade, I'm guessing it won't actually work unless it detects a previous Windows program on my HDD? Is that correct?
That's correct. To use the Win7 upgrade disk, you would have to wipe your disk, use your XP disk then run the Win7 installer...which will wipe your disk again.

that's what I was afraid of. It sounds like anyone who had XP or Vista already installed, who then tried the Win 7 RC, just shot themselves in the foot and now has to do multiple OS installs. I think I'll just go back to XP and call it a day.
 

Athena

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Apr 9, 2001
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Originally posted by: giantpinkbunnyhead It sounds like anyone who had XP or Vista already installed, who then tried the Win 7 RC, just shot themselves in the foot and now has to do multiple OS installs.
Umm...Win7 is betaware, anyone who installed it on a production machine should have been prepared to wipe.

 

Itchrelief

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Dec 20, 2005
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Originally posted by: Athena
Originally posted by: giantpinkbunnyhead It sounds like anyone who had XP or Vista already installed, who then tried the Win 7 RC, just shot themselves in the foot and now has to do multiple OS installs.
Umm...Win7 is betaware, anyone who installed it on a production machine should have been prepared to wipe.

From reading on the Web, beta seems to be more of code for "cool, free Windows for a year!"
 

Athena

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Apr 9, 2001
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I don't know where on the web you've been reading; the Microsoft page page about public availability is quite clear:
Protect your PC and data. Be sure to back up your data and please don't test the RC on your primary home or business PC.
Beta jockeys can write all they want about the stability of the RC but Microsoft has never presented it as anything but test software. The point of the extended public RC is to overcome lingering scepticism about Vista not to encourage consumers to use as a substitute OS on a production machine.
 

amheck

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Oct 14, 2000
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I'm also trying to make a decision today before the upgrade offer goes away. Is it documented anywhere what qualifies for the upgrade? i.e. if I have Vista upgrade on a PC, does that qualify? What if I can PC's that came with Vista and/or WinXP? Do I just use the XP disc that came from them for validation for the Win7 upgrade?
 

RebateMonger

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Dec 24, 2005
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Originally posted by: amheck
I'm also trying to make a decision today before the upgrade offer goes away. Is it documented anywhere what qualifies for the upgrade? i.e. if I have Vista upgrade on a PC, does that qualify? What if I can PC's that came with Vista and/or WinXP? Do I just use the XP disc that came from them for validation for the Win7 upgrade?
Microsoft has not provided certain details on the upgrade process, especially concerning "proving" that you own a prior OS. History and the wording indicate that if a "legal" version of XP or Vista is installed on the hard drive, the upgrade will be allowed.

If you order the upgrade and change your mind, you should be able to cancel the order at any time.
 

giantpinkbunnyhead

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Dec 7, 2005
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Originally posted by: Athena
Originally posted by: giantpinkbunnyhead It sounds like anyone who had XP or Vista already installed, who then tried the Win 7 RC, just shot themselves in the foot and now has to do multiple OS installs.
Umm...Win7 is betaware, anyone who installed it on a production machine should have been prepared to wipe.

That's beside the point. The way I see it is that anyone with XP / Vista who tries the RC, has invalidated their eligiblity for the lower-priced upgrade because the RC wipes XP / Vista from their system. Pretty slick trick M$ pulled to generate more sales, IMO.
 

tomatom

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Jul 27, 2002
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===> from KEZNEWS

If you are running an activated version of Windows 7 RC, you will be able to install Windows 7 from an upgrade disk without installing an older version of Windows. However, you will not be able to do an upgrade installation. Only the custom installation option will be available, which would carry all files on your current Windows installation over to Windows 7 and store it in a folder called windows.old.

Microsoft has continually discouraged upgrade installations from an older Windows 7 build to a newer build. In the RC, the upgrade installation option was disabled if you were running the installation from an older Windows 7 build. However, making a simple edit to the cversion.ini file located on the Windows 7 installation disk would allow you to do so. Microsoft even posted this workaround for those who really wanted to upgrade to the RC from a previous build. The latest RTM candidate build issued to top partners, build 7264, still contains the cversion.ini file, although there is nothing inside. But the fact that the file still exists on the installation image may suggest that this workaround will continue to be possible in the final version of Windows 7.

Even though it will be possible to upgrade, Silverman claims that this could only be done once. If you?ve upgraded from the RC using the Windows 7 upgrade disk and decide to do a clean install of Windows 7 again, you?ll first need to install an older version of Windows.
 

spdfreak

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Mar 6, 2000
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I ordered one since I thought "what the heck, I'll use it somewhere"... either on a laptop or my sister's PC. So if I can't do a clean install on a new HD, it will still get used. Or I could sell it.
 

Athena

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Apr 9, 2001
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  1. According to an unknown Microsoft spokesman referenced here, the Windows 7 upgrade installer looks for an activated copy of XP, Vista, or the Win 7 RC. If it doesn't find an activated OS, there's nothing to upgrade.
  2. You don't have to take delivery on a pre-order. The earliest anyone can charge you is 30 days before release and most vendors will wait until it actually ships. So, you can cancel the order any time between now and October. And even if it ships, there's nothing that says you have to to accept it.
 

ViRGE

Elite Member, Moderator Emeritus
Oct 9, 1999
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Originally posted by: Underclocked
I don't quite understand that linked explanation.

"If you have Windows XP or Windows 2000, you can purchase Windows 7 Upgrade versions. But you must back up your files, clean install, and reinstall your applications." from http://store.microsoft.com/mic...Windows-7/category/102

Windows 2000 never required any activation process to my knowledge.
If that's the case (this is the first I've heard about 2K being a valid upgrade base) then keep in mind that it's a "professional" level product and hence you can only upgrade to Win7 Pro and Ultimate. Win7 HP would not be a licensed upgrade path.
 

RebateMonger

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Dec 24, 2005
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An acquaintance, Harold Wong of Microsoft, has put a statement in his TechNet blog that says the Windows 7 Upgrade process will accept a physical XP or Vista disk as evidence of ownership of a prior version of Windows. Harold is a VERY knowlegeable guy, and I tend to take his word for things.

Harold Wong's Blog site

"2. Todd: If you purchased the Windows 7 Upgrade, you only need the original media (CD / DVD) of Windows XP or Windows Vista. The Upgrade media will ask you to insert the media from XP or Vista so it can perform a check of the physical media before proceeding. Of course, if you already have Windows Vista installed on the machine, it will just allow you to perform an in-place upgrade."
 

KeypoX

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Aug 31, 2003
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Originally posted by: RebateMonger
An acquaintance, Harold Wong of Microsoft, has put a statement in his TechNet blog that says the Windows 7 Upgrade process will accept a physical XP or Vista disk as evidence of ownership of a prior version of Windows. Harold is a VERY knowlegeable guy, and I tend to take his word for things.

Harold Wong's Blog site

"2. Todd: If you purchased the Windows 7 Upgrade, you only need the original media (CD / DVD) of Windows XP or Windows Vista. The Upgrade media will ask you to insert the media from XP or Vista so it can perform a check of the physical media before proceeding. Of course, if you already have Windows Vista installed on the machine, it will just allow you to perform an in-place upgrade."

man good think i kept my old original vista disk.... its looking pretty rough though lol
 

Athena

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Apr 9, 2001
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Originally posted by: RebateMonger
An acquaintance, Harold Wong of Microsoft, has put a statement in his TechNet blog that says the Windows 7 Upgrade process will accept a physical XP or Vista disk as evidence of ownership of a prior version of Windows. Harold is a VERY knowlegeable guy, and I tend to take his word for things.
I'm sorry Rebate Monger, but I don't believe that Harold knows what he's talking about here. He is an Exchange Server team member and has no direct knowledge of what the Windows team's objectives are in this respect.

The Vista installer wouldn't allow an upgrade from just the CD and all the Windows people have said that the Windows 7 installer will be even more stringent. I'd be willing to bet that Harold doesn't even realize that what he outlined wasn't possible with Vista. Except for the Windows Team, people at Microsoft never deal with upgrade versions; they always get full version disks -- even for personal use.

This is an example of the dangers of speaking outside ones realm of expertise.
 

RebateMonger

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Dec 24, 2005
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Harold is the first "named" Microsoft source I've seen discussing this issue. Everybody else so far has been "un-named sources" or not Microsoft employees. Hopefully, he's correct.

I'm GUESSING that Microsoft is going to place much less emphasis on the concept of "FULL RETAIL versus UPGRADE RETAIL" software, and more emphasis on getting folks to move to W7. Their Full Retail sales have already got to be pitifully small, and making upgrades more complex both technically and legally is costly to both customers and Microsoft.

I'm pretty sure Microsoft has a goal of making licensing SIMPLER, not more complicated. Note the combined Retail/OEM disk, will all versions onboard. And the use of a single Key for both 32-bit and 64-bit software. The now "official" Family Pack is another indication that MS is making a strong push for upgrade volume and making upgrades more complicated just to see a few more "Full Retail" packages seems unlikely.

Microsoft has already effectively abandoned the "Upgrade version" concept in Europe with Windows 7 E. They are selling Full Retail packages at, effectively, the "Upgrade" price. "Announced" Upgrade procedures like requiring fully Activated, pre-existing software, not allowing "Upgrades of Upgrades", and de-Activation of existing XP and Vista license Keys goes absolutely the wrong direction if Microsoft wants to make things simpler for both Microsoft and for their customers.

Hopefully we'll see some confirmed information one way or the other soon. :)
 

Athena

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Apr 9, 2001
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Originally posted by: RebateMonger
Harold is the first "named" Microsoft source I've seen discussing this issue. Everybody else so far has been "un-named sources" or not Microsoft employees. Hopefully, he's correct.
Again, he's talking outside his area of expertise; he has no direct involvement with anything that relates to client OS upgrades. The setup and migration crew of the Windows team are the only folks who know the specifics and for whatever reason, they aren't talking.

IMHO, most of the documentation created a lot of confusion with it's use of the term "clean" install. Customer support personnel are now using the term "custom" install but the confusion remains.

I'm GUESSING that Microsoft is going to place much less emphasis on the concept of "FULL RETAIL versus UPGRADE RETAIL" software, and more emphasis on getting folks to move to W7.
Microsoft's primary objective is to maximize OS revenue. As much as the company wants to kill off XP, it has zero interest in legalizing a process by which a single copy of Windows can be used for multiple discounted Windows 7 installations. Letting people do that reduces revenue. Family Packs and sharply discounted "full" versions are designed to sell more product.

 

totalcommand

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Apr 21, 2004
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Originally posted by: Athena
Originally posted by: RebateMonger
Harold is the first "named" Microsoft source I've seen discussing this issue. Everybody else so far has been "un-named sources" or not Microsoft employees. Hopefully, he's correct.
Again, he's talking outside his area of expertise; he has no direct involvement with anything that relates to client OS upgrades. The setup and migration crew of the Windows team are the only folks who know the specifics and for whatever reason, they aren't talking.

IMHO, most of the documentation created a lot of confusion with it's use of the term "clean" install. Customer support personnel are now using the term "custom" install but the confusion remains.

I'm GUESSING that Microsoft is going to place much less emphasis on the concept of "FULL RETAIL versus UPGRADE RETAIL" software, and more emphasis on getting folks to move to W7.
Microsoft's primary objective is to maximize OS revenue. As much as the company wants to kill off XP, it has zero interest in legalizing a process by which a single copy of Windows can be used for multiple discounted Windows 7 installations. Letting people do that reduces revenue. Family Packs and sharply discounted "full" versions are designed to sell more product.

Looking at your posts in this thread, you seem extremely sure that activated copies are necessary rather than physical media - though there is a microsoft employee saying the opposite.

Are you basing this on some other insider information? (Do you know somebody in the OS unit?)
 

Athena

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Apr 9, 2001
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Originally posted by: totalcommand
Looking at your posts in this thread, you seem extremely sure that activated copies are necessary rather than physical media - though there is a microsoft employee saying the opposite.
There are thousands of Microsoft employees and most of them have nothing whatsoever to do with Windows. Harold himself says he has no first hand knowledge about the Windows 7 upgrade process.

I had stated that the original media would be required. Since I cannot get a solid answer internally at this point, I?m going to take the egg on my face and say that I may be wrong in my previous statement. I am not sure yet. Since I don?t have access to the Upgrade Media myself, I cannot test it to know for sure so I am waiting for the Windows 7 Team to post an update to their blog that states all the requirements. Just like the rest of you, I will have to wait for further ?official? news. I am very sorry for jumping the gun on this one and stating what I heard were the requirements for using the Upgrade Media.

Originally posted by: totalcommand
Are you basing this on some other insider information? (Do you know somebody in the OS unit?)
My understanding of how upgrade installs will work comes from Microsoft employess who are on the Windows team and from people who spend even more working on Microsoft issues than I do. I don't know why the Windows team hasn't posted public clarification (I certainly have a lot of questions) but Harold is definitely not someone who is "in the know" about this particular issue.
 

NicColt

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Jul 23, 2000
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Originally posted by: Underclocked
Windows 2000 never required any activation process to my knowledge.

I've been reading way to much on this subject and here's what I understand it to be at this point.

1) You will not be able to simply insert your Vista, XP or W2K disk to authenticate the W7 Upgrade install.
(that information even tough from what seems to be reliable sources is wrong"

2) The W7 Upgrade can / will only be installed on a pre-activated install. Either Vista, XP or W2K must all have been run through WGA once. For Vista and XP WGA is done at the time of install and you have 30 days to activate. For W2K the WGA is only activated through IE Updates.

http://www.maximumpc.com/artic...it%E2%80%99s_installed
http://hothardware.com/News/Ru...s-7-Upgrades-Verified/

3) You only have to install W7 Upgrade over a pre-activated install ONCE.

4) Once W7 has been installed over your existing and activated install of Vista, XP or W2K, the Microsoft WGA servers will then MIGRATE this information for you and it will de-activate your previous operating system's Key. Once that is done, your W7 Upgrade will function as a full version install. You will no longer need to have the previous Operating System media in order to re-install your W7 Upgrade, you will simply need to do a custom install and once you run the "activation" through the WGA Servers, they will already have the migrated information for you and will authenticate your W7 Upgrade Install.

In other words, if you have W2K installed and have run the WGA through the IE Updates (at least once) and then do a W7 Upgrade install over the W2K install. It will then instruct the WGA servers to migrate that W2K key towards your W7 Upgrade. If you need to re-install W7 in the future that Key information will already be on the Microsoft's WGA servers and will recognize your W7 "custom" Upgrade just like a full version. However you will no longer be able to re-activate your Vista, XP or W2K that you have applied your W7 Upgrade towards, you will be able to re-install Vista and XP but won't be able to activate them once the 30 day trial is over. With W2K you will be able to re-install it but won't be able to run the IE Updates with WGA on that W2K install.


 

RebateMonger

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Dec 24, 2005
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Originally posted by: NicColt
2) The W7 Upgrade can / will only be installed on a pre-activated install. Either Vista, XP or W2K must all have been run through WGA once. For Vista and XP WGA is done at the time of install and you have 30 days to activate. For W2K the WGA is only activated through IE Updates.
Regardless of what MS does this time, I believe MS is going to abandon the whole "Upgrade Licensing" concept eventually because the model is unsustainable. A policy of only allowing upgrades on computers with a pre-installed prior OS is untenable over more than one generationn of OS.

For example: People like me whose Windows licenses are based an original Windows 3.11 Full Retail install from 1993 would not accept having to re-install five generations of OS just to put Windows 7 on an empty hard drive.

Microsoft will drop the entire "Upgrade" concept and will drop the price of the OS. It makes sense. It will mimimize MS' support costs, mimimize the cost of maintaining and owning MS operating systems, and will greatly improve customer satisfaction. Having PC enthusiasts upset over complicated, time-consuming upgrades and having "average" PC owners upset over having to buy a pricey Full Retail license to get Windows back onto a replacment hard drive is NOT the way to sell OSes.