will Kaby Lake core m support DDR4?

[willfr]

I just read that you can't have DDR4 ram with the core m skylake chips. Does anyone know if the kaby lake core m chips will have DDR4 support? Surely it will?

 

[NTMBK]

That's weird, considering that DDR4 is meant to lower power consumption.

 

[therealnickdanger]

It's a number of factors ranging from memory pricing, pin complexity, power consumption, and bandwidth needs. When Core M was being drawn up and nearing release, DDR4 was still outrageously expensive. LPDDR3 offers "good enough" bandwidth for the Core M while keeping costs low. I assume that Intel and their partners get a really good bulk discount on outgoing DDR3. Since the chip is so heavily gated/throttled, DDR4 would probably be wasted anyway.

Cannon Lake will probably be G'd up from the street up with DDR4.

 

[Arachnotronic]

Kaby Lake Core m will only support LPDDR3. Kaby Lake is pin-compatible with Skylake, so this isn't the generation for memory interface changes.

 

[IntelUser2000]

That's weird, considering that DDR4 is meant to lower power consumption.

On the contrary, segment differences are greater than generational differences. Broadwell 15W is lower power than Skylake 28W for example.

LPDDR3 offers both lower voltages(lower active power) and much lower standby power(1/5-1/10) compared to DDR3 and DDR3L. That means even against DDR4 it'll offer considerable power reduction.

They'll need to wait until LPDDR4. Too bad that Intel's behind in everything. How can iPad Pro have LPDDR4-3200 and $1500 laptops have LPDDR3-1600?

 

[willfr]

On the contrary, segment differences are greater than generational differences. Broadwell 15W is lower power than Skylake 28W for example.

LPDDR3 offers both lower voltages(lower active power) and much lower standby power(1/5-1/10) compared to DDR3 and DDR3L. That means even against DDR4 it'll offer considerable power reduction.

They'll need to wait until LPDDR4. Too bad that Intel's behind in everything. How can iPad Pro have LPDDR4-3200 and $1500 laptops have LPDDR3-1600?

Oh I should have been more specific, I did mean LPDDR4. And yes, even the iPad Pro and smartphones use LPDDR4 now, why would intel not be all over this? It's a 'free' improvement in both speed and lower power consumption

 

[IntelUser2000]

Oh I should have been more specific, I did mean LPDDR4. And yes, even the iPad Pro and smartphones use LPDDR4 now, why would intel not be all over this? It's a 'free' improvement in both speed and lower power consumption

Evidently not.

Yea, I agree. However, Intel simply does not have such technology. I think losing the technological advantage to Smartphones/Tablets is part of why PC is losing. 720p webcams on $1500 PCs, to a 20MPixel + Optical Zoom on some Smartphones. LPDDR4-3200 on a $900 Tablet, LPDDR3-1600 on a $2000 PC Tablet. First to have 2k and 4k screens. Massive power management advantage.

You *can* legitimately replace most PCs with Smartphones/Tablets. They are technologically better.

But I'm going off topic.

 

[ksec]

Are there any news on Wide I/O 2? Since we are getting LPDDR4X which is a reduced Volt version of LPDDR4, why are we not moving to Wide I/O yet?

I find not supporting LPDDR4 quite amusing, it used to be memory standard kind of need Intel's push / blessing to get things moving. Now Intel is completely left behind.

 

[ElFenix]

First to have 2k and 4k screens.

 

[Sheep221]

Evidently not.

Yea, I agree. However, Intel simply does not have such technology. I think losing the technological advantage to Smartphones/Tablets is part of why PC is losing. 720p webcams on $1500 PCs, to a 20MPixel + Optical Zoom on some Smartphones. LPDDR4-3200 on a $900 Tablet, LPDDR3-1600 on a $2000 PC Tablet. First to have 2k and 4k screens. Massive power management advantage.

You *can* legitimately replace most PCs with Smartphones/Tablets. They are technologically better.

But I'm going off topic.

Higher frequency, resolution etc is not always better. If you would know that x86 has much hihgher IPC and thus will do more in less clock cycles you wouldn't be saying any of this.

 

[IntelUser2000]

Higher frequency, resolution etc is not always better. If you would know that x86 has much hihgher IPC and thus will do more in less clock cycles you wouldn't be saying any of this.

I disagree on x86 having a much higher IPC. Intel x86 chips have better IPC. And comparing against A9/A9X chips, the advantage is not really there.

Also, pure performance is not enough. We've been complaining about crappy screens and webcams and touchpads and keyboards for years! Only recently they were forced to change because they see better specced mobile devices killing them.

And the fact that a company like Intel that practically spearheaded the advancement of vast majority of the computing standards like memory is falling so back behind is embarrassing.

 

[Sheep221]

I disagree on x86 having a much higher IPC. Intel x86 chips have better IPC. And comparing against A9/A9X chips, the advantage is not really there.

Also, pure performance is not enough. We've been complaining about crappy screens and webcams and touchpads and keyboards for years! Only recently they were forced to change because they see better specced mobile devices killing them.

And the fact that a company like Intel that practically spearheaded the advancement of vast majority of the computing standards like memory is falling so back behind is embarrassing.

Then again I disagree, you only see raw resolution/frequency values and disregarding everything else.
Now let's get to the facts.
Webcams - desktop webcams are still 720P based - correct, they however have larger, more sensitive sensor and the image quality overall is better than on front-facing 1080P phone camera.
Back cameras - upto 20MP on phones - correct, why not on PC? Well I assume you are not going outside with your desktop PC or laptop for the purpose of taking any videos or photos with it, that's why no desktop webcams get this resolution - no need and that also makes them cheaper.
Keyboards - since desktops are modular you get a keyboard of your choice - you pay nothing you get nothing.
Touchpads - again, cheap laptops get worse touchpads and keyboards.
Screens - Modern laptop displays and desktop monitors have beautiful colors and contrast compared to regular IPS phones displays - seriously, only mobile display featuring not washed-out colors is AMOLED which has been found on few samsungs and motorolas so far.
Touchscreen - Oh shi! That touch screen AIO costs $2K! Do you think that making 24" touch screen should be cheaper than making 5" one?
Memory speed - if you are not gaming on IGP with shared system RAM, going over 1600MHz has no real impact on performance.

 

[IntelUser2000]

Then again I disagree, you only see raw resolution/frequency values and disregarding everything else.

I'll reply to you at "BK just killed the PC" thread.

 

[Bryf50]

It's crazy. The Galaxy S7 uses LPDDR4-3600 while Intel only supports DDR4-2133. To make matters worse OEMs like Lenovo used the opportunity to switch even high end $1k+ laptops to single-channel. All of the focus and die area Intel dedicated to the igpu are instantly rendered useless.

 

[Bryf50]

Webcams - desktop webcams are still 720P based - correct, they however have larger, more sensitive sensor and the image quality overall is better than on front-facing 1080P phone camera.

You haven't used many laptop Webcams. The front-facing cameras on high-end smartphones are an order of magnitude better than any laptop.

Touchpads - again, cheap laptops get worse touchpads and keyboards.

High-end laptops still struggle with shitty touchpads and keyboards. It's getting a bit better in recent times but recent laptops I've had were still using bandwidth limited PS/2 touchpads.

Screens - Modern laptop displays and desktop monitors have beautiful colors and contrast compared to regular IPS phones displays - seriously, only mobile display featuring not washed-out colors is AMOLED which has been found on few samsungs and motorolas so far.

Displays on high-end phones are way better than laptop/desktop displays. Much better contrast, brightness, viewing angles, and I've never seen this color issue. The difference is that smartphones are designed as a whole product. Laptops are designed by ordering parts out of a catalog.

 

[ShintaiDK]

It's crazy. The Galaxy S7 uses LPDDR4-3600 while Intel only supports DDR4-2133.

You are comparing apples and oranges.

The fastest DDR4 chips made today is 2400Mhz, rest is OC.

 

[Bryf50]

You are comparing apples and oranges.

The fastest DDR4 chips made today is 2400Mhz, rest is OC.

Chicken and the egg. The reason those are the fastest DDR4 chips made today is because nobody supports DDR4 greater than that.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Chicken and the egg. The reason those are the fastest DDR4 chips made today is because nobody supports DDR4 greater than that.

Its entirely different. Cost alone you would be looking at around 300$ for 16GB as DIMMs. Instead of paying between 75 and 150$ with DDR4 from 2133 to 3600 as you do today. You could pretty much just ask as why it isn't fitted with HMC or HBM memory

And no, its not the chicken and the egg. Samsung works on chips up to 3200Mhz(they claim) after moving to a 1x nm class node. But those are perhaps 6 months away.

 

[Bryf50]

Doing some more research I hadn't realized the LP standards were so different from standard and L. Still Intel supports LPDDR3 on their mobile CPUs and will be massively late to the party with LPDDR4.