Will Joe Biden cancel student loans?

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Exterous

Super Moderator
Jun 20, 2006
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IMHO, you have to fix the loan practices and cost side, then start thinking about how you can forgive debt on people to where it "should have been."

Fixing the cost side could end up a complicated mess but the easiest would probably be to tie state funding to a percent increase in tuition and keep that increase below inflation for awhile. Schools are so different targeted solutions could have a lot of unintended consequences.

I'd prefer that come as part of an effort to reduce the "everyone should go to college" mantra that is so pervasive it shows up in school counselors, job requirements and even media (watch sitcom parents recoil in horror if their kids say college might not be right for them).

And the median outstanding student loan debt is around $17,000 with average loan debt at graduation at $30,000 (couldn't find median) so suggestions of $50k seem too much to me. There is probably a good sweet spot below the average debt at graduation that provides a good amount of relief while we fix the cost and need issues that wouldn't get an opposition all riled up (and cause a lack of passing reform or loss of dem political support). I'm not sure what that number is but $15,000 seems like a decent guess to me. Takes out most of the median debt and half the average debt at graduation. I'd be inclined to say if you choose to continue beyond a bachelors that's on you (you're older and can, theoretically make a more informed decision about the best path forward for yourself) but I'm less familiar with that space in general

American: "I'm against student loan forgiveness because I paid mine back and it wouldn't be fair!"
Narrator: "Said the person who took advantage of the Homebuyer Tax Credit free money."

American: "I'm against student loan forgiveness because I paid mine back and it wouldn't be fair!"
Narrator: "Said the person who took advantage of the electric vehicle tax credit free money."

American: "I'm against student loan forgiveness because I paid mine back and it wouldn't be fair!"
Narrator: "Said the farmer that gets millions in farm subsidies every year."

American: "Only a fool would go into debt for school!"
Narrator: "Said the person who went to school when a degree could be had for $2,000 per year."

American: "Only a fool would go into debt for school!"
Narrator: "Said someone who entered the work force when a bachelor's degree and ten years of experience wasn't the minimum requirement to work in the mail room."

Can I still complain if none of those narrations applied to me?
 
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ponyo

Lifer
Feb 14, 2002
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My daughter will start college next year so I might just let my daughter take out loans to see if Biden will forgive portion of the loan. Thanks for the free money suckers! :p

Seriously, college costs are out of control in this country. We need student loan reform but I don't know how we would go about that. Healthcare and student loans are the two biggest areas we need major rewrite. It would be best if we destroyed the entire system and build one from scratch but that's fairy tale dream.
 
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Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
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A better question is should every illegal alien get free college paid for by working Americans, and can America afford this and who reimburses the public when 99 percent of these people fail out, and will they really need to pass if Biden says they should continue anyway, and finally, would college still be worth a hoot


This is a troll who just joined today, made two posts in the motherboards and windows forums that shows he is obviously not a computer enthusiast then came directly to the politics and news forum to shitpost mindless pro-trump conspiracy and anti-vax garbage.
 
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TheVrolok

Lifer
Dec 11, 2000
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Can I still complain if none of those narrations applied to me?

I think the point is less identification of those specific scenarios, but more of suggestion that throughout history we have all likely benefited from different programs. The argument that loans shouldn't forgiven because "I didn't get that" is spurious at best. There are plenty of reasonable arguments to be made, that just isn't one.
 
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HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
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Lol "helps the economy" argument is just grand.

It helps the top 30-40% and at no point is it guaranteed to be spent in a way that is helpful.

Va. Simply handing the LOWER 40% money where they can use it to improve their lives and help drive the economy.

Also just using the phrase "helps the economy" to drive an argument for massively increasing our debt is just fucking batshit insanely stupid.
You don't get to bitch about debt because of your silence over Trump's spending and tax cuts for the rich. Remember...
(102) Trump will be the forever allowable #whatabout | AnandTech Forums: Technology, Hardware, Software, and Deals

Since you moral grounding is so solid I guess we can see your rantings when the government just handed money to banks so they will loan it to people.

Economic multipliers are very real. If students don't have to pay their loans they aren't going to just sock it all away. They will spend it, a lot of it locally.

As for my position I'm not sure I'm in favor of 100% loan forgiveness since it isn't fair to the people who busted their asses to pay off their loans. I would entertain forgiving the interest on those loans.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
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You don't get to bitch about debt because of your silence over Trump's spending and tax cuts for the rich. Remember...
(102) Trump will be the forever allowable #whatabout | AnandTech Forums: Technology, Hardware, Software, and Deals

Since you moral grounding is so solid I guess we can see your rantings when the government just handed money to banks so they will loan it to people.

Economic multipliers are very real. If students don't have to pay their loans they aren't going to just sock it all away. They will spend it, a lot of it locally.

As for my position I'm not sure I'm in favor of 100% loan forgiveness since it isn't fair to the people who busted their asses to pay off their loans. I would entertain forgiving the interest on those loans.
We are rapidly approaching the point where conservatives will pretend to care about debts and deficits again and they will absolutely demand that we pretend to believe them.

There is no need to humor people engaging in obvious bad faith. If they believe otherwise then they need to prove it first by repealing the Trump tax cuts. Then let’s talk.
 
Nov 8, 2012
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I'm against wholesale loan forgiveness and it highlights a problem I have with a lot of the policies on the left, it only addresses the "who's paying for it" not the cost.

I think the loan process needs to be massively changed. You should only be able to get loans for actual tuition/fees. The interest rate needs to be capped at no more than a 10-year T-note. No loans towards for-profit schools.

Probably the first REAL sensible post here - which I guess isn't saying much, we have come to expect tons of morons saying "Eh, why not?" all the time with no sense of rationale or reasoning.


Anyhow - first to your points on tuition costs....


To put it simply, forgiving student loan debt simply SLIGHTLY relieves a symptom of a GIANT HUGE FUCKING VOLCANO problem. Address the problem, not the symptoms, dipshits.



Second - the reason why these costs continue to climb as they make more and more elaborate campus' to try and "market" their campus to their potential new students simply circles back to the loans. If you can get loans to pay for all this shit, then who cares? When it comes to every sensible and rational sense of loans - we aren't doing what should be done.

It is mostly an evaluation of "How poor are your parents?" to justify "needing" these loans. This negates any sense of being called a loan - because what should be occurring is asking the question "How probable is this person to pay their loans back?"


In addition they need to evaluate
1) What type of job are they looking to go with?
2) What's the average income with said job?
3) What major are they going with - and does it have much place in our current job market?
4) What is the amount they are paying for this loan?
5) How good were they in school? Straight A's? AP Classes? Grants? Suspensions? Attendance %?
6) What is the historical performance of this particular school?


Thus any real loan system would do things such as...
1) Decline overpriced schools (for-profit, non-state schools, out of state, etc.). The point of a loan is to invest something - not to enjoy yourself for 4 years.
2) Decline covering worthless majors. This is similar to declining because the collateral is not worth enough to loan (e.g. won't loan you $40k to buy a car worth $30k
3) Decline based on a background/credit checks that may indicate they aren't serious about paying it back.
4) Encourage community colleges for knocking out basic courses - or better yet, be more rewarding of those that knocked them out with dual-credit AP classes
5) Would also be much more probable to loan larger amounts to students that have shown an actual history of working hard - e.g. in AP classes, qualified for grants, etc...



The same LOAN standards should be held for student loans. If you don't, you end up in the same shit standards we are currently in...
1) Colleges continue to increase rent, tuition, etc... because stupid kids will pay for it by getting loans that they have little intentions of paying back
2) As I said, forgiving student loans slightly relieves a symptom. It does nothing to address a problem. We will be right back to where we were in 5 years. No question.
3) Right now - colleges don't give a shit about ANY of these crucially important things - because the one holding the flaming bag of shit at the end of the day is the US Federal Government. Not them.


There should also be a real forgiveness program, so that if you meet certain parameters the loan is forgiven. If you are paying on an income adjusted rate, you shouldn't accumulate interest on the difference.

Easy - just make them dismissable in bankruptcy like other debts. We don't have to make it complicated.


I have known many people that lived high on the hog in college and didn't work, while I drove an old ass car, worked, and ate cheap. They should have to take some responsibility for their decisions, but again the loan system should be fixed to make living off the loans harder.

But the real issue is with school costs. State school prices are way up, meanwhile every campus is in an arms race for who has the shiniest new buildings and newest res halls. Nearly every top paid state employee is a fucking college coach. And schools are driving up cost by limiting supply. States have also limited funding to universities significantly over the decades (as a percentage). Private schools that don't meet some sort of endowment to freshman class ratio should have their endowments taxed.

Part of the reason school costs are way up is because students have infinite access to loans. Cut back that gravy train and university will stop charging $800/mo for a dorm room and $30/hr for sports facility bonds.

IMHO, you have to fix the loan practices and cost side, then start thinking about how you can forgive debt on people to where it "should have been."

Of course - the problem is the loans. Loans are supposed to have CHECKS in order to decline things that are too risky - or that don't make financial sense. When it's just a wide-open purse for anyone to grab - the schools don't give a shit - and the people taking it don't give a shit. Thus the person who SHOULD be giving a shit is the owner of the purse. Clearly they don't right now, and that is the core of the problem.

This just goes back to Point #1 - which is stop giving everyone with a pulse a student loan.

If their parents (or they themselves) want to outright pay for all that extra shit - more power to them. If they want a loan on it - then they can obviously go fuck themselves.
 
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Nov 8, 2012
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You don't get to bitch about debt because of your silence over Trump's spending and tax cuts for the rich. Remember...
(102) Trump will be the forever allowable #whatabout | AnandTech Forums: Technology, Hardware, Software, and Deals

Since you moral grounding is so solid I guess we can see your rantings when the government just handed money to banks so they will loan it to people.

Economic multipliers are very real. If students don't have to pay their loans they aren't going to just sock it all away. They will spend it, a lot of it locally.

As for my position I'm not sure I'm in favor of 100% loan forgiveness since it isn't fair to the people who busted their asses to pay off their loans. I would entertain forgiving the interest on those loans.

lol you're comparing loan forgiveness to how much people contribute to taxes being reduced as the same? One is stealing, the other is simply reducing how much they contribute. You do realize there is a difference, right?


Also quit with the mental gymnastics idiot, I've repeated here multiple times I didn't vote for Trump - and nor did I vote 3rd party.
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
35,204
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Or simply if you luckily timed things right. Imagine how someone feels if they got a work-bonus last year and decided instead of spending it on hookers and blow like they normally do - they instead decide to change their personality and become more responsible.

What does that teach anyone? It teaches them that don't worry about being responsible - someone else will pick up our mess for us.
If you want to prevent helping millions because you are afraid some people might learn the wrong lesson you are a piece of shit. I paid off all my student loans and worrying about someone getting a better deal than me is the furthest thing from my mind. Every person concerned about such petty bullshit can go fuck themselves.
 
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Nov 8, 2012
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If you want to prevent helping millions because you are afraid some people might learn the wrong lesson you are a piece of shit. I paid off all my student loans and worrying about someone getting a better deal than me is the furthest thing from my mind. Every person concerned about such petty bullshit can go fuck themselves.
No dipshit, I want to help everyone by fixing the problem, and not relieving temporary symptoms. We will be right back to where we were in 5 years.

Only someone as inept as yourself can look at this type of shit and say "Oh, but we will be helping out a small amount of people!"

How about helping out every single fucking future student instead of just current ones? How about that?
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
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Everyone with large student debt should get together and reformulate themselves as a bank, with one gigantic debt . Then get bailed out on account of being 'too big to fail'.

More seriously, I have no idea what the solution is. I agree that just forgiving existing debts, while probably popular with the immediate beneficiaries, is only going to be a termporary 'band aid'.

But it's strange that you have bankruptcy laws that only apply to certain kinds of debt (specifically excluding student loans). On the one hand profits are justified on the basis that entrepreneurs take 'risks', yet on the other those bankruptcy laws remove much of those risks for the likes of Trump.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
83,717
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Everyone with large student debt should get together and reformulate themselves as a bank, with one gigantic debt . Then get bailed out on account of being 'too big to fail'.

More seriously, I have no idea what the solution is. I agree that just forgiving existing debts, while probably popular with the immediate beneficiaries, is only going to be a termporary 'band aid'.

But it's strange that you have bankruptcy laws that only apply to certain kinds of debt (specifically excluding student loans). On the one hand profits are justified on the basis that entrepreneurs take 'risks', yet on the other those bankruptcy laws remove much of those risks for the likes of Trump.
The reason you can’t discharge student loans in bankruptcy is that if you could no bank would offer student loans. I mean why would banks give tens of thousands of dollars in unsecured loans to people who generally have no assets or income?

Student loans are a bad idea and should be done away with entirely, replaced with public funding of universities.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
45,896
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The reason you can’t discharge student loans in bankruptcy is that if you could no bank would offer student loans. I mean why would banks give tens of thousands of dollars in unsecured loans to people who generally have no assets or income?

I think the larger point is it should not cost that and that this much higher price of college education is a (at least partially) direct result of the change in 1976 that made the loans non dischargeable.


Student loans are a bad idea and should be done away with entirely, replaced with public funding of universities.

yes
 
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1prophet

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2005
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It is amazing and depressing how Americans love deficits caused by tax cuts for billionaires but hate deficits caused by money for regular people.
More amazing how so many of these woke so-called liberal Americans decry billionaires among the rest of their social justice pet peeves while doing things like camping outside their favorite Apple Store in order to be the first to get the latest slave made i-product, in addition to all the other outsourced throwaway environmentally unfriendly things they must have on the cheap while enriching those same billionaires they decry so much.


As for the student loans bring back the bankruptcy protections that used to be available for most other debt and hold colleges private and public responsible for some of that debt like in the past instead of using it to fund frivolous things like their money losing multimillion dollar stadiums with ever-increasing tuition costs on the backs of students and the problem will take care of itself.

Most public universities lose money on their athletic programs — and many have been running up ever-bigger debt to finance stadiums. The trend has occurred even though there is little evidence that football provides major revenue for expanding academic programs or reducing skyrocketing tuition. Instead, as college football has become a multibillion-dollar business demanding state-of-the-art facilities and massive coaching salaries, it is taxpayers and already debt-burdened students who ultimately pay the bill.
 

nickqt

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2015
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$50,000 in student loan debt cancelled.

$50,000 in tax credits to everyone else, can be used in 1 year, can be used over 20 years, however long it takes to be used up. Hell, make it $75,000.

What's the problem again?
 

brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
25,992
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$50,000 in student loan debt cancelled.

$50,000 in tax credits to everyone else, can be used in 1 year, can be used over 20 years, however long it takes to be used up. Hell, make it $75,000.

What's the problem again?
Something communism, something it’s morally wrong to not keep people in debt, something fygm, something Jesus would take their homes.
 
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dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
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No dipshit, I want to help everyone by fixing the problem, and not relieving temporary symptoms. We will be right back to where we were in 5 years.

Only someone as inept as yourself can look at this type of shit and say "Oh, but we will be helping out a small amount of people!"

How about helping out every single fucking future student instead of just current ones? How about that?
As already mentioned in this thread, that would require an act of Congress, which will not happen without substantial Democratic control. In the meantime, Biden may be able to at least help a little bit via executive order. Dipshit.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
35,966
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lol you're comparing loan forgiveness to how much people contribute to taxes being reduced as the same? One is stealing, the other is simply reducing how much they contribute. You do realize there is a difference, right?


Also quit with the mental gymnastics idiot, I've repeated here multiple times I didn't vote for Trump - and nor did I vote 3rd party.
I expected more from you then that sir. A highly educated man such as yourself with a standing in the community lowers himself to name calling.

Circling back to my point super genius, you cannot used the debt to support an argument since your silence during this administrations actions show you don't really care about it. Now that Biden is about to take over I expect you to stand on your principles.

BTW - If you took the time to look would have seen I'm in some agreement with you on this.
 
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Nov 8, 2012
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The reason you can’t discharge student loans in bankruptcy is that if you could no bank would offer student loans. I mean why would banks give tens of thousands of dollars in unsecured loans to people who generally have no assets or income?

Student loans are a bad idea and should be done away with entirely, replaced with public funding of universities.


Except... you know... Banks DO offer student loans you fool. It's literally a fact.

They just do what ANYONE with a rational brain would do and instead of asking an entirely moronic question like "How poor are your parents?" they instead ask rational and reasonable questions in order to determine loans - such as asking for a cosigner in the case that you don't finish school and become a basement-dwelling barista your entire life.

I listed above just SOME of the many factors that can be taken into account in order to have a real federal loan system.


But at the end of the day - it first has to start off with having an ability to tell kids "I'm sorry, you're too fucking dumb for college - consider looking into a trade-skill". Until we have that - the problem will never go away.
 
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ultimatebob

Lifer
Jul 1, 2001
25,135
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You know, I would actually be OK with forgiving a portion of student debt as part of a merit based system.

Study hard and get a better than a 3.5 GPA? Half of your student debt should be forgiven. Spend most of your time in college drinking and end up with a 2.6 GPA? Sorry, Sally. If you play stupid games in life, you're going to "win" stupid prizes like 20 years of student loan debt.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
83,717
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Except... you know... Banks DO offer student loans you fool. It's literally a fact.

They just do what ANYONE with a rational brain would do and instead of asking an entirely moronic question like "How poor are your parents?" they instead ask rational and reasonable questions in order to determine loans - such as asking for a cosigner in the case that you don't finish school and become a basement-dwelling barista your entire life.

I listed above just SOME of the many factors that can be taken into account in order to have a real federal loan system.


But at the end of the day - it first has to start off with having an ability to tell kids "I'm sorry, you're too fucking dumb for college - consider looking into a trade-skill". Until we have that - the problem will never go away.
Lol, so in other words they ask for co-signers with assets and income so that they aren’t issuing loans to people without them, exactly as I said.

It never ceases to amaze me how capably you’re able to make yourself look dumb, all while raging about how stupid everyone else is. You’re not a smart person and it’s time you came to grips with that. There’s nothing you can do about it either, acceptance is your only path forward.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
21,004
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College debt forgiveness should be tied in with reforms to the industry itself for sure.

The problem is not sure what Biden could do with an executive order on that front, because Mitch will block any legislation the Dems might bring forward, if they do at all.

Hasan Minaj had a good show on the college as a business bullshit going on these days on Netflix's Patriot Act (which sadly got cancelled)
 

Sunburn74

Diamond Member
Oct 5, 2009
5,025
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Forgiving student loans is basically a giant stimulus program. However you need to tie in reforms to college costs because the basic product isn't changing but the costs are rampantly growing out of control.
 

pauldun170

Diamond Member
Sep 26, 2011
9,133
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Everyone knows how this plays out.
Conservatives will flood the airwaves with "Why should we pay for the liberal education of Women's Studies\African studies" majors and then replay their anti-science rhetoric complaining about studies or grants or whatever bullshit they like to sell sprinkled with keywords like socialism or "The reason why people around the world come to our universities is because they enjoy the prestige of paying extreme amounts of money.
They will make an exception for Football players and students at specific Christian universities.

Anandtech members will bitch about anyone majoring in something besides math, science and engineering.

It will basically turn into we should only pay the loans for people that are in certain fields and are veterans and do not look like they speak a different language or are too tan.

The scripts on this stuff were written ages ago.
McConnel and all the tea party asshats already have the portfolio to shoot anything like this down.
 
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Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
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$50,000 in student loan debt cancelled.

$50,000 in tax credits to everyone else, can be used in 1 year, can be used over 20 years, however long it takes to be used up. Hell, make it $75,000.

What's the problem again?
What long term problem is actually fixed by it? That's the problem. It does literally nothing to address school costs or the next underlying issues with student loans.