Will Georgia indict? May find out tonight! Update: Posted Jan 9 finally indicted Aug 14.

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Bitek

Lifer
Aug 2, 2001
10,644
5,216
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I’d only see Ramaswamy do it as his first presidential act.

DeSantis while pandering to the base is lying through his teeth, yeah he’ll renege on the promise. And hold it over the orange monkeys head and make him kiss ass.

I could see that. Otoh, it's maybe the worst thing he could do. There is no honor or loyalty in Trump, so once you've given him what he wants he will abandon and undermine you.

He's a nobody, no existing power center, so he's basing his appeal as being a Trump proxy, but once Trump is freed, then Trump will be THE shadow president and Rama will have no real power.

Additionally, I think there are plenty of silent, cowardly institutional Rs in the Congress that would be furious their Trump problem was finally solved, only to have it undone by some internet influencer con artist.

We can already see the hate he's getting from the establishment politicians on the debate stage.

Who ends his up ally? Nobody.
 
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Bitek

Lifer
Aug 2, 2001
10,644
5,216
136
I don't disagree with your opinion of DeSantis, but I'm at a loss why you think he wouldn't immediately pardon Trump. To fail to do so would infuriate the MAGA crowd and would immediately end the honeymoon period nearly all Presidents have when first taking office. Doing so would gut his support and effectively make him a lame duck right off the bat.

Unless the GOP firmly vows NOT to pardon Trump or his crew I fully expect each and every one of them to pardon them immediately. To think otherwise is delusional.
The path they need to walk is to be SEEN to be moving towards pardoning, but slow walk it and blame it on the Ds. Never actually do it and undermine themselves. It will be theatre
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
83,103
46,641
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The path they need to walk is to be SEEN to be moving towards pardoning, but slow walk it and blame it on the Ds. Never actually do it and undermine themselves. It will be theatre
The reason why you pardon him on day 1 is to get rid of the issue. If they don't pardon him they will be asked about it every day forever, which is why they will all do it immediately (except for the candidates like Christie who have no chance of winning anyway).
 
Nov 17, 2019
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The path they need to walk is to be SEEN to be moving towards pardoning, but slow walk it and blame it on the Ds. Never actually do it and undermine themselves. It will be theatre
To be in the GQP, you must be a devout liar to the core. They'll say they will, but they probably won't because ... reasons.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
35,706
27,251
136
The reason why you pardon him on day 1 is to get rid of the issue. If they don't pardon him they will be asked about it every day forever, which is why they will all do it immediately (except for the candidates like Christie who have no chance of winning anyway).
How do you pardon Trump and not pardon people like Stuart Rhodes who did not enter the Capital building? Rhodes got 18 years in prison and DOJ is appealing for more.

BTW - I'm not advocating for his pardon, quite the opposite.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
83,103
46,641
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How do you pardon Trump and not pardon people like Stuart Rhodes who did not enter the Capital building? Rhodes got 18 years in prison and DOJ is appealing for more.

BTW - I'm not advocating for his pardon, quite the opposite.
I wouldn't be that surprised if they did some sort of general 1/6 pardon.
 

[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
13,761
11,792
146
Generally speaking the idea that we should bar felons from the presidency is a terrible idea. Same with voting. A hallmark of authoritarian regimes is to convict their political opponents of crimes to prevent them from running for office.

One of the best parts about democracy is the voters get exactly what they deserve. If America wants to elect a felon then it gets to reap what it sows.
I'd be fine with restriction of rights based on the crime (felony voting crime, no vote, felony firearm crime, no arms, etc). I agree with you regarding overarching felonies removing many rights.

I can't wait to see how the majority SC decision justifies a felon being president but not voting.
 
Nov 17, 2019
10,491
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Remember, there doesn't seem to be any Congressional or Judicial action required to invoke 14-3. As I posted previously, even the staunchest right wingers, the Federalist Society takes that approach.

So, what happens if states like Michigan, New York, California, Illinois and a few others simply refuse to put him on the ballot? Even if he won the Red states, there wouldn't be enough EC votes available.

Their refusal to do so would no doubt be challenged, but how would that go?

When would they do that? After the primaries? After the Convention? Maybe they would wait, hoping someone else would get the nomination.
 

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
30,212
7,861
136
It's my understanding that in order to be granted a pardon you have to admit that you are guilty.
If he admits that he's guilty of insurrection then wouldn't the 14th kick in?
 

Thump553

Lifer
Jun 2, 2000
12,603
2,324
126
It's my understanding that in order to be granted a pardon you have to admit that you are guilty.
If he admits that he's guilty of insurrection then wouldn't the 14th kick in?
During the modern era there was/is an organization set up within the Executive Branch to review and evaluate pardon requests. Not something set up or run under any particular law. That organization did require an admission of guilty, among other things.

However the power to grant pardons is granted to the president under the constitution, which does not set forth any limitations on that power. As we all remember Trump went BA on that power, pardoning many of his friends and lackeys, even for things they did for him.

Prior presidents can and did make controversial pardons on their own, but certainly not to the extent Trump did.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
83,103
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That would pretty much end...

Equal justice under the law
No one is above the law.

At least we would finally have to admit it.
Oh it would be very, very bad to do, but I don't think it being bad would matter much to them. I expect the next Republican president, whenever that may be, to do a general pardon.
 

SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
14,196
4,387
136
During the modern era there was/is an organization set up within the Executive Branch to review and evaluate pardon requests. Not something set up or run under any particular law. That organization did require an admission of guilty, among other things.

However the power to grant pardons is granted to the president under the constitution, which does not set forth any limitations on that power. As we all remember Trump went BA on that power, pardoning many of his friends and lackeys, even for things they did for him.

Prior presidents can and did make controversial pardons on their own, but certainly not to the extent Trump did.
I am pretty sure that SCOTUS decided a long time ago that accepting a pardon is a confession of guilt, and that a pardon does not make one innocent but gives them forgiveness from the sentence. So, I think the 14th would still apply.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
83,103
46,641
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I am pretty sure that SCOTUS decided a long time ago that accepting a pardon is a confession of guilt, and that a pardon does not make one innocent but gives them forgiveness from the sentence. So, I think the 14th would still apply.
They did rule that a long time ago but also plenty of times pardons say things like 'you're being pardoned because you aren't guilty'. Hard to see the courts saying that Trump was disqualified for accepting something that declared his innocence.

As a practical matter the 14th is useful for trolling Trump but probably not much else.
 

SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
14,196
4,387
136
They did rule that a long time ago but also plenty of times pardons say things like 'you're being pardoned because you aren't guilty'. Hard to see the courts saying that Trump was disqualified for accepting something that declared his innocence.

As a practical matter the 14th is useful for trolling Trump but probably not much else.
Not only that, but many pardons are worded for 'any crimes that the person might or might not have committed' making it so vague that it does not admit to anything.
For the 14th being useful just for trolling, I agree with you, but I think some states are going to try to get his kicked off the ballot, but the states that are going to do that would have gone to Biden anyway, so it does not really matter.
 
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HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
35,706
27,251
136
Like I've said many times before... nothing will happen to Trump... except to get re-elected by the skin of his teeth while yet again losing the popular vote.

I told you so back in March. I knew what they would try but not how they would try it.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
83,103
46,641
136
Like I've said many times before... nothing will happen to Trump... except to get re-elected by the skin of his teeth while yet again losing the popular vote.

Yeah but remember how you're also constantly wrong about these things? Haha. Remember how you had worked yourself up in to such a frenzy that you somehow convinced yourself that a Republican senate supermajority was going to happen despite that meaning that Republicans had to win a senate election in like Hawaii? lol

1) The law itself is probably unconstitutional and will never go into effect. Regardless she isn't going anywhere until litigation is finished.
2) Kemp appointed the people to the board and Kemp clearly supports Trump's prosecution.
3) Removing her does exactly zero to stop the case.
 

gothuevos

Golden Member
Jul 28, 2010
1,807
1,593
136
I told you so back in March. I knew what they would try but not how they would try it.

I'm not sure how this new GA law works - if Kemp will ultimately be the one to sign off on it? Or do they need a veto-proof majority in the legislature to vote for it? Regardless, they'll probably change the law at the last second to make it go through.

His path is clear: GA removes Fani Willis. Trump self-pardons himself for the other federal/J6 crimes.
 

gothuevos

Golden Member
Jul 28, 2010
1,807
1,593
136
Yeah but remember how you're also constantly wrong about these things? Haha. Remember how you had worked yourself up in to such a frenzy that you somehow convinced yourself that a Republican senate supermajority was going to happen despite that meaning that Republicans had to win a senate election in like Hawaii? lol

1) The law itself is probably unconstitutional and will never go into effect. Regardless she isn't going anywhere until litigation is finished.
2) Kemp appointed the people to the board and Kemp clearly supports Trump's prosecution.
3) Removing her does exactly zero to stop the case.

It's starting to feel eerily like 2016.

"He has no chance!"

Yeah Trump is unpopular. You know who else is unpopular? Biden. Very vulnerable.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
83,103
46,641
136
It's starting to feel eerily like 2016.

"He has no chance!"

Yeah Trump is unpopular. You know who else is unpopular? Biden. Very vulnerable.
lol.


Evidence for what? That swing state polls are all mostly within the margin of error? That Republicans have SIGNIFICANTLY reduced the new voter registration gap between the two parties in most swing states (those that Trump already won in 2016)? That the Trump camp's enthusiasm is through the roof? This is all playing out like 2016 all over again.


Everyone seems to gloss over this important point...GOP voter registration is outpacing the Dems in nearly all the key swing states...where Biden's lead is already slim and just within the margin of error.

Everyone is making the same mistake as 2016, all over again. I bet Biden wins the popular vote by at least 5 mil, but loses all the key swing states again. GOP voter registration in Florida, NC and PA is greatly outpacing the Dems. He probably wins those 3 in addition to Ohio. Does picking up the rust belt and maybe AZ get Biden to 270?

IMO there are going to be a lot of shocked/disappointed people again.
lol.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
83,103
46,641
136
Lol.

I still don't know why conservatives are so angry all the time.

Guns aren't going away. Abortion is being chipped at. They control most state legislatures and governor's mansions. They have an iron grip on the Supreme Court. And pretty soon they will have a clean sweep of all government, probably super majority status on top of everything else that looks to probably last decades. They are on the verge of a total, utter and lasting victory at all levers of government.

What more do they want?
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
83,103
46,641
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One last one for the lulz.

IMO it will only backfire and feed their victim narrative.

Democrats have zero good will left, for better or worse. Did you see the CA primaries? The progressive DA from SF recalled and a former Republican turned Dem Lite with a strong showing in the LA mayor primary.

There should be major red alerts going off with the DNC right now.

I was being tongue in cheek with some of my earlier comments about GOP supermajorities, but now I think it's a real possibility they may have enough in both chambers to fulfill their fantasy of impeach and convict of both Biden and Harris. It's going to be a blowout.

One would think having your last prediction be wrong by 18(!) senators (out of a total of 35 up for election!) would make you stop and think why you keep getting things so spectacularly wrong. Apparently not.

Most annoyingly someday the Republicans will win and then you will most likely say ‘I told you so’ while ignoring how you always make exactly the same prediction of disaster. You’re like the Peter Schiff of Nate Silvers.
 

alien42

Lifer
Nov 28, 2004
12,607
2,986
136
I'm not sure how this new GA law works - if Kemp will ultimately be the one to sign off on it? Or do they need a veto-proof majority in the legislature to vote for it? Regardless, they'll probably change the law at the last second to make it go through.

His path is clear: GA removes Fani Willis. Trump self-pardons himself for the other federal/J6 crimes.

Even if they remove Fani Willis, it doesn't stop the prosecution of Trump and his coconspirators.
 

you2

Diamond Member
Apr 2, 2002
5,645
895
126
Some legal scholars are making the case that he could not be eligible under the 14th amendment if he was engaged in insurrection or rebellion. I should be more specific in that this is considering the charges relating to election interference, not the classified docs cases, or his civil cases related to sexual abuse.

Of course, that's their legal theory and would have to be tested and somehow enforced.

Some claim it would not even require conviction on his charges, but I find that fanciful.

Regardless, it's still another angle the Trump team will have to defend and expend energy on.
There is an open case in Florida (i think) to get Trump removed from the ballot under 14th amendment. I think the first hearing was heard a few days ago - not really following it closely.
 
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