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Will Elon Musk Batteries render electric companies obsolete soon?

brainhulk

brainhulk

Diamond Member
https://www.yahoo.com/tech/s/electr...n-musk-revolutionary-batteries-221532843.html

With this in mind, Bloomberg’s Mark Chediak writes that Elon Musk’s new gigafactory should scare electric companies to death because of it will have the ability to mass produce “stationary battery packs that can be paired with rooftop solar panels to store power.”

Amory Lovins, the co-founder of energy consultancy firm Rocky Mountain Institute, tells Chediak that energy storage packs such as the ones Musk and his factory are making pose “a mortal threat” to electric utilities because they are “an unregulated product you can buy at Home Depot that leaves the old business model with no place to hide.”
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They won't be terrified, anything that could potentially threaten the oil industry or any big corporate energy company will vanish out of nowhere, like every other revolution that has happen in the last 100's of years. Why do you think Tesla's stuff was shelved and hidden from the public, he was way ahead of his time and they did not want his tech to be known. Same idea with people today who come up with revolutionary stuff. You see them on the news then never hear of them ever again. Who knows what the government does with/to them.

Of course there are lot of phonys out there too. As soon as it says "free energy" it's probably a phony.

A very high density storage/battery tech would revolutionize energy though, because it means you could actually rely 100% on renewable resources to keep the batteries topped up. Power plants would consist of large banks of these high density batteries and solar/wind farms to keep them topped up. Heck the battery banks could be pretty much anywhere on the grid. They would feed off the grid and provide to the grid when needed with all sorts of sources also feeding the grid. Essentially the grid would actually become a large battery.

High enough density batteries would also make it viable to use for heavy vehicles like trains and planes.

The government would quickly shut down such battery though. They'd find an excuse such as saying it's too dangerous or something. Just need to throw "the children" in there.
 
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Solar cells that generate enough power for a typical house already cost a ton. Now add countless batteries to that cost and a lifetime of ~10 years and you can forget about saving money. I don't think the power companies are worried.
 
Red Squirrel said:
They won't be terrified, anything that could potentially threaten the oil industry or any big corporate energy company will vanish out of nowhere, like every other revolution that has happen in the last 100's of years. Why do you think Tesla's stuff was shelved and hidden from the public, he was way ahead of his time and they did not want his tech to be known. Same idea with people today who come up with revolutionary stuff. You see them on the news then never hear of them ever again. Who knows what the government does with/to them.
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This sounds a bit paranoid don't you think? What do you think the big oil or power/energy companies are going to do if some tech comes along to make their tech obsolete? Have it squashed and the inventors killed by the big govt.? It would be much safer for them just to buy it up and then charge you a premium for it. They don't want tech to vanish, they just want to own it and charge you for it, and they have the means to do that.

Red Squirrel said:
A very high density storage/battery tech would revolutionize energy though...
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It's not just a matter of high density. Lead acid batteries, which are cheap and can store a lot of charge, and deliver it relatively quickly waste a lot of energy as heat when they are charged. They also only last about 4 or 5 years on average, then need to be replaced. So there are limitations besides density that need to be addressed. Yes battery tech is improving lately, and that's a good thing, but I don't see it being squashed. Lithium ion was a step in the right direction and wasn't squashed by anyone.

Red Squirrel said:
because it means you could actually rely 100% on renewable resources to keep the batteries topped up. Power plants would consist of large banks of these high density batteries and solar/wind farms to keep them topped up. Heck the battery banks could be pretty much anywhere on the grid. They would feed off the grid and provide to the grid when needed with all sorts of sources also feeding the grid. Essentially the grid would actually become a large battery.
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Solar and wind farms are still much more expensive than the current technology of coal fire power plants. Most power companies want to maximize profits by reducing cost.

Red Squirrel said:
The government would quickly shut down such battery though. They'd find an excuse such as saying it's too dangerous or something. Just need to throw "the children" in there.
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No they wouldn't. Battery technology has improved and no one has "shut it down" or called for shutting it down. It's very unlike you to be this paranoid or fall for the conspiracy bandwagon. What caused you to do so?
 
From article: "Of course, we’re still a long way away from the days when we can tear up our monthly electric bills"

The storage of wind/water and solar energy is a major problem in our transition to green energy, so any advancement in this area will be good for everyone.

Major energy companies will probably sell these to customers including service plans, and electricity guarantees.
 
biostud said:
From article: "Of course, we’re still a long way away from the days when we can tear up our monthly electric bills"

The storage of wind/water and solar energy is a major problem in our transition to green energy, so any advancement in this area will be good for everyone.

Major energy companies will probably sell these to customers including service plans, and electricity guarantees.
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Yea just look at all the progress we've made, an electric luxury car, and a bunch of other shit that takes more energy to manufacture it than it produces.
 
Solar only works well in part of the country. Covered in snow they probably won't be of much use.

I don't like the idea of roof top installations either. When you have to replace your roof, all of the solar equipment has to come off. I also don't trust the water proofing ability of the roof with all of the holes made in it to install the solar equipment.
 
Jumpem said:
Solar only works well in part of the country. Covered in snow they probably won't be of much use.

I don't like the idea of roof top installations either. When you have to replace your roof, all of the solar equipment has to come off. I also don't trust the water proofing ability of the roof with all of the holes made in it to install the solar equipment.
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I can't wait for solar shingles to become more affordable. We don't get enough sun here in Illinois to offset the cost of solar anyway
solar_shingles.jpg
 
disruptive technologies always bring out the boogie men.


Power companies need to innovate. They have been tied into the pay struckture and have fought tooth and nail to any major changes in delivery for decades. Sure they are finally moving on smarter grids but not in a meaningful way.


Cheap batteries and technology like wiitricity will force a sea change to electrical delivery.
 
Dman8777 said:
Solar cells that generate enough power for a typical house already cost a ton. Now add countless batteries to that cost and a lifetime of ~10 years and you can forget about saving money. I don't think the power companies are worried.
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But the end user is sending his check to Elon instead of the power company. That is their fear.

It will be a painful transition. The cost of the grid infrastructure doesn't fluctuate with usage. Spreading that cost over fewer and fewer users will only be acceptable for so long.
 
disappoint said:
Solar and wind farms are still much more expensive than the current technology of coal fire power plants. Most power companies want to maximize profits by reducing cost.
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Natural gas is going to supplant coal as the primary fuel source for power generation in the next few years. Solar/wind are getting closer to cost parity with fossil power but still have a little ways to go thought they are quite viable with modest subsidies. Relatively few coal power plants have been built in the last couple decades and many are coming up on end of life (or well past). Combined with cheap ng and tightening EPA regulations coal power will be a small player within a decade. If ng prices happen to rise in the meantime there will be an explosion (in place of the current gradual expansion) of utility scale renewable build outs and storage systems.
 
Rakehellion said:
Batteries don't generate electricity.
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They don't need to. They just need to make up the difference between the wholesale and retail price that the home producer sells and buys during off-peak and peak hours. That breakeven point is quickly approaching and is thought to hit parity in the next 10 years, especially with the Gigafactory getting up to speed and home storage becoming viable.

The ROI on solar panels, granted with subsidies, is within a reasonable range.
 
LegendKiller said:
They don't need to. They just need to make up the difference between the wholesale and retail price that the home producer sells and buys during off-peak and peak hours. That breakeven point is quickly approaching and is thought to hit parity in the next 10 years, especially with the Gigafactory getting up to speed and home storage becoming viable.

The ROI on solar panels, granted with subsidies, is within a reasonable range.
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If Tesla and Panasonic can actually deliver batteries at $100 per kWh shit is going to hit a lot of fans.
 
K1052 said:
If Tesla and Panasonic can actually deliver batteries at $100 per kWh shit is going to hit a lot of fans.
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I look at a lot of Stranded Asset bonds (aka Rate Reduction Bonds) and am starting to wonder if they are bad investments. Why? Because they depend on rate payers paying a specified rate over 20 years. That rate can be increased every year in order to pay for the bonds, allowed by the local regulator and state. However, you can only increase it so much until you are going to drive people away, en masse, in a feedback loop.
 
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