Question Will CPU supplies return? Ryzen 2700 (or replacement?)

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DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
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That would be cool if we got 4000-series Ryzen APUs for desktop, on 07/07/2020, but I thought that was the launch date for the "XT" 3000-series CPUs, and that the 4000-series APUs were going to happen in October, with a December launch of the 4000-series (Zen3!) CPUs...
There are supposed to be two Vermeer chips launched in October. No idea really when the desktop Renoir chips will launch. July makes as much sense as any other time.
 

chrisjames61

Senior member
Dec 31, 2013
721
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The original poster isn't doing himself any favors by not clearly stating what his unique use case is. Nor using an example of a befuddled user to back up his claim. The newer Ryzen cpu's are more efficient. There is no getting around it. I get the feeling he wouldn't even believe The Stilt or der8auer.
 
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Yeroon

Member
Mar 19, 2017
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Running an 8C/16T Ryzen CPU... on a PicoPSU... *g*. LOL.
What do you think laptop renior has? A real psu? Though maybe if one tries to do a static oc like you did to your 3600 you'd be past a picopsu wattage.

No, Markfw was correct. WWYBYWB?
It seems likes some of you guys responding need to go outside and get some fresh air. This poster is definitely just looking for correct info, and capping power at tdp is not common to find in most reviews or typical users who throw a big cooler on a 3000 series and say thats how it works.

You can easily limit wattage of a zen2 and still get way better perf than a zen1 at its advertised tdp, its just going to require a little time in the bios. I would suggest a watt meter, they are super handy for this type of work.
Mem freq and voltage also plays a part in the cpu tdp cap. Going from 2400 1.2 to 3200 1.35v for me was about 10w at my meter, folding. This is spread out over the ram, IF, and increased cpu performance.
 

UsandThem

Elite Member
Super Moderator
May 4, 2000
16,069
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It seems likes some of you guys responding need to go outside and get some fresh air. This poster is definitely just looking for correct info, and capping power at tdp is not common to find in most reviews or typical users who throw a big cooler on a 3000 series and say thats how it works.
Twice now you have been the only person siding with this new user for whatever reason. It has nothing to do with getting "some fresh air".

You don't think they are being vague with their answers/reasons, but the vast majority of us here seem to see their answers/tone differently. It sounds like they have paid a lot of attention to the TDPs/power usage of various CPUs, but yet they didn't seem to know the 2700/2700X have pretty much been discontinued for a while now? It's all very odd.
 

Kenmitch

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
8,504
2,245
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I haven't looked in the past month or more but at the time I did, there was scant reference at all on the web how to enable it or how well it worked. I kept seeing stuff like this Reddit thread:
ECO mode functions as intended. One click in my uEFI and a reboot is all it takes.

This is from today. Aida64 stress test for a little over 5 minutes on and off. Not really sure what your planning on doing with your alleged build, or if your even being serious in the 1st place.

1593963878829.png

The example you posted?
 

Hitman928

Diamond Member
Apr 15, 2012
4,238
5,367
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Respectfully, I'm sorry, but it looks like you are mis-characterizing the article. I don't think it's unclear what they are saying -- Ryzen+ and Ryzen 2 are *not* the same in their power consumption profie:

"...the power consumption of AMD’s first and second generation Ryzen processors has often been parallel to the TDP rating on the box, with the CPU levelling out to the TDP value as we load up the cores with a high energy workload."

"With Ryzen 3000 and Zen 2, AMD’s attachment to TDP was not as clinical as its first two generations of hardware."

"This shows that Zen 2 has a different strategy to the previous Zen chips when it comes to how AMD is mixing the difference between TDP and PPT."


That said, since it appears the 2700 may not be seeing a resurgence of supply and that at least some of the Ryzen 2 chips can possibly be de-tuned to the same power consumption of the 2700 (max 65W) then it would be better if this thread could focus on those questions, or I can start a new thread asking that question.

No, I own the 2700 and can speak from first hand experience running it at stock and monitoring the power it uses. Again, your quotes are comparing core only power for the 2700 and full package power of the 3700x. The 2700 full package will use more than 65 W when fully loaded and if you really load it to the brink, will use upwards of 85 W. I've measured it with my own 2700. Depending on the workload, the 3700x will use more power than a 2700 because the 3700x supports full throughput AVX2 which the 2700 doesn't, but in those cases it will be massively faster than the 2700 as well while using only a bit more power. But if you hammer the 2700 with something like f@h, it will use the same amount of power. Again, I own a 2700 and have tested it with a number of programs and have seen upwards of 85 W when fully maxed out.

Here's GN measured power numbers from running Blender. The 3700x does just shy of 10 W more power but that's because Blender hitting the full 256 bit width of the 3700x while the 2700 is stuck with double cycle 128 bit. Even then you can clearly see the 2700 using more power than its rated TDP (by design) and it will use even more power if running a different program like f@h.

Maybe the 3700x tops of a few watts higher than a 2700 but the marginal difference in power is greatly outweighed by the ~40% increase in performance of the 3700x in this situation. If you try to overclock the 2700 to match the 3700x performance, you'll use over twice the amount of power of the 3700x and still won't be able to match the 3700x in performance. As I and others have pointed out numerous times now, you can easily force both the 2700 and 3700x to use 65W or lower and then the 3700x will have a very significant performance advantage over any CPU bound task. So instead of assuming you are correct because you read a couple of things online, maybe listen to the people who not only read about every release that comes out and take the time to fully understand how each chip works, but also those of us who own or have built systems with these chips and can give you first hand knowledge of their performance and power use.

1593968988999.png
1593969239758.png

Link
 

Yeroon

Member
Mar 19, 2017
123
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Twice now you have been the only person siding with this new user for whatever reason. It has nothing to do with getting "some fresh air".

You don't think they are being vague with their answers/reasons, but the vast majority of us here seem to see their answers/tone differently. It sounds like they have paid a lot of attention to the TDPs/power usage of various CPUs, but yet they didn't seem to know the 2700/2700X have pretty much been discontinued for a while now? It's all very odd.
I shouldn't need to jump in to say the mods here are being a bit defensive when the user just got here. Theres a reason this is a discussion and not a bunch of stickies where the mods tell us what the situation is. Maybe I'm one of the few here who have actually had to figure out how to get a 3000 series to use less power due to case/cooling reasons, and so I understand where asking is having trouble sourcing correct information. You can't argue tdp numbers have become pretty useless for intel/amd later gens, regardless of which one abuses its number more.

Show me a statement saying 2700 / 2700x is discontinued, cause I just googled it and the only thing that comes up is a reddit post with speculation. Intel and AMD both supply older gens, and the 14nm Glofo wafer agreement is still in play, so it stands to reason they are not discontinued. Supply shortage, likely.
Even the product page makes no mention of it:

Edit: I am not endorsing a 2700 just to get a harder tdp limit. I am showing that the info you suggest is common knowledge doesnt even extend to AMDs own product page.
 

UsandThem

Elite Member
Super Moderator
May 4, 2000
16,069
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I shouldn't need to jump in to say the mods here are being a bit defensive when the user just got here. Theres a reason this is a discussion and not a bunch of stickies where the mods tell us what the situation is. Maybe I'm one of the few here who have actually had to figure out how to get a 3000 series to use less power due to case/cooling reasons, and so I understand where asking is having trouble sourcing correct information. You can't argue tdp numbers have become pretty useless for intel/amd later gens, regardless of which one abuses its number more.
I didn't see anyone post here as moderators, so...........

Show me a statement saying 2700 / 2700x is discontinued, cause I just googled it and the only thing that comes up is a reddit post with speculation. Intel and AMD both supply older gens, and the 14nm Glofo wafer agreement is still in play, so it stands to reason they are not discontinued. Supply shortage, likely.
Even the product page makes no mention of it:
AMD doesn't usually announce discontinuance of CPUs like Intel does. However, as a person who watched the pricing bottom out for several months after the launch of the 3000 series, it was obvious that retailers were clearing out their remaining stock. Mainstream retailers haven't had any for sale now for at least 7 months, and if a person wants one, they are going to have to buy from private sellers or 3rd party sellers. The pricing tracker websites show this data as well (Camel 3x. PCPartpicker, NowInStock, etc). Could AMD still make some for companies with specific needs if needed, sure. However, the new inventory is all but dead (and has been that way for a long time now).
 

Markfw

CPU Moderator, VC&G Moderator, Elite Member
Super Moderator
May 16, 2002
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UsandThem

Elite Member
Super Moderator
May 4, 2000
16,069
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Once the Ryzen 3000 reviews hit, they made for some great deals back then:

https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/2700x-199-amazon-159-mc.2569827/

The Ryzen 2700X for $179 + $30 more off if purchased of a motherboard? Shut the front door. :p

I got my 2700X along with the Asus ROG X470 motherboard when they had $100 off combo purchase. I'm honestly just waiting for the 4000 series to launch, and I'll likely grab a 3800X or even a 3900X when they reduce the prices to clear out old inventory.

But only if it doesn't ever go over 95w. ;) :p
 
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esquared

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 8, 2000
22,751
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The guy wants his 2700 so let him have it.
We are supposed to be a little more civil
than the social forums.
And he's a new member. This is not the ARM dude, so please, lighten up.
 

Markfw

CPU Moderator, VC&G Moderator, Elite Member
Super Moderator
May 16, 2002
23,816
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The guy wants his 2700 so let him have it.
We are supposed to be a little more civil
than the social forums.
And he's a new member. This is not the ARM dude, so please, lighten up.
Just trying to save him from himself.
 
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Rigg

Senior member
May 6, 2020
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I see, so basically de-tune it? Is lowering the PPT the ideal way to achieve this? Do you know if all motherboards will provide support for doing so?
The ideal way tune it depends on how you are using it. I'm of the opinion that a fixed clock multiplier and carefully tuned fixed voltage will net the most performance per watt in most situations. As far as I know any AM4 chipset will have advanced PBO options (with a bios supporting 3000 CPU's) with the exception of a320. Some may have other ways to limit power (which will vary by motherboard and bios version) but lowering PPT in manual PBO settings should be universal. This is why I mentioned this specific method.

The 3700x is only going to pull about 10% more power than a 2700 out of the box anyway so it probably doesn't matter that much. As @IEC pointed out:
If power efficiency is your objective, you should be analyzing how many Joules of energy it takes to complete a given task. In that metric, the 3700X in its stock configuration is the undisputed winner:
 

podspi

Golden Member
Jan 11, 2011
1,963
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I am surprised it hasn't been mentioned here (unless I missed it) - there is a difference between the total power consumed and peak usage. Disregarding the ability to limit the power of Ryzen CPUs, even if Zen 2 has higher peak power usage, the total power used is (should be) lower. Same idea behind Turbo...

@asking, if you're still around, why such the strict power limit? And are you willing to (un)tweak the CPU? If so, as others have mentioned, its possible to limit usage to 65W. I can confirm this works w/ a 3600 B450, although the BIOS is a bit of a mess (at least for my Gigabyte board). Had to set the power in like 3 different places...
 

chrisjames61

Senior member
Dec 31, 2013
721
446
136
For the life of me I can't wrap my head around what is so special about a 2700 that the latest Ryzen cpu's won't fill his needs?
 
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DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
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fwiw it looks like at least some of the desktop Renoir chips hit on the 21st. There are even 35W entries coming, at least in the PRO lineup.
 

mach14

Junior Member
Nov 16, 2019
3
3
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Then use an Athlon 3000G. 35W TDP.

Edit: Zen2 make aggressive use of "boost". Disable "Core Performance Boost" in BIOS/UEFI, and the processor should max out at a strict TDP limit, like 65W for the 3600. (You do know that the rated TDP, is when limited strictly to "Base clocks", right? Like Intel also does. If you leave "Turbo" enabled, their default setting in mobos, then they do indeed go WAY OVER their "rated" TDP, at least for a short time.)

The 2700 was the odd-man-out, and lacked XFR and PBO, so it was kind of trapped in 65W TDP land. Other CPUs are configured in ways that are less "unlucky" (less limited in performance boosting capabilities).
I believe this is not accurate, Intel and AMD use completely different methods of determining TDP
 

mach14

Junior Member
Nov 16, 2019
3
3
41
I will also swap you my 2700x if you provide me a 3700x. Every day, and twice on Sunday. I know you only want a 2700, but if you can make that small sacrifice, I'm here for you
 

blckgrffn

Diamond Member
May 1, 2003
8,599
2,127
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www.teamjuchems.com
Aegis 16GB 2 x 8GB DDR4-3000 PC4-24000 CL16 Dual Channel Desktop Memory Kit F4-300C16D-16GISB - Black/Red
1 of (SKU) 217182 @ $64.99
TOTAL: $64.99
Ryzen 7 2700X 3.7GHz 8 Core AM4 Boxed Processor with Wraith Prism Cooler
1 of (SKU) 741173 @ $159.99
TOTAL: $159.99
B450M DS3H WiFi B450M AM4 mATX Motherboard
1 of (SKU) 977587 @ $54.99
TOTAL: $54.99

Microcenter gave me a $25 refund on that too, because the price on the CPU went to $135 two days after I was in store. Oh, pre COVID shopping, I miss you...

Oh yeah, and I got Borderlands 3 for free too... and a month game pass I have yet to try to use (probably doesn't work any more)...

We are way past the prime time of Zen+ purchasing. Even 1600 AF eluded me when shopping a few weeks ago...
 

mach14

Junior Member
Nov 16, 2019
3
3
41
I dont think well ever see $129 Ryzen 7's again. Microcenter deal was insane. I drove 90 miles for it. Should have bought several of them. I didnt even need a CPU, i had just built a R5 2600 a year prior, but I bought one anyway and upgraded my second desktop. Yes, the game pass, I forgot. It was pretty decent, they also threw in a couple extra months when u signed up. Im not a huge gamer, but I checked out a few of the triple A games they had available.
 
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