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Will be getting Octane 512 GB as a prize soon

I

iamgenius

Senior member
Hello. I won a competition a month ago and will be given an octane 512 GB as a prize for that! I wish it was the new samsung 840 pro, but I guess I can't decide prizes.

Look at my sig. I'm wondering if I should just make it my OS drive. Or maybe sell it and get a 256 GB 830/840 samsung drive? I don't know what to do with my M4 also. It is kinda of hard to sell stuff where I'm now.

Is this OCZ ssd reliable enough to let it handle my OS?

There is one more thing also. I've had compatibility issues with the crucial M4 when I installed it in my lenovo W520 laptop. Putting the octane in the laptop is an option. It will also solve the space limitation in the laptop without an extra disk. But, I'm still afraid of its reliability. Any input from its users will be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks.
 
IMHO a drive that huge and potentially unreliable (OCZ drives die faster according to the XS review of NAND endurance) should be used for something other than OS. It's also not that fast. So a M4/830 for OS and the Octane for non-critical stuff would be nice. Selling it and using the money to buy something you'd rather have, like a 256GB 830/M4 also works.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?271063-SSD-Write-Endurance-25nm-Vs-34nmhttp://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?271063-SSD-Write-Endurance-25nm-Vs-34nm/page210
 
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iamgenius said:
...
There is one more thing also. I've had compatibility issues with the crucial M4 when I installed it in my lenovo W520 laptop. Putting the octane in the laptop is an option. It will also solve the space limitation in the laptop without an extra disk. But, I'm still afraid of its reliability. Any input from its users will be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks.
Click to expand...

What kind of incompatibilities did you have. A couple of weeks ago I installed a 512GB Crucial M4 in my W520 and installed Opensuse on it just fine as the drive goes (I had network problems, but that is another thing). Currently I have my 830 256GB with W7 back in the machine.
 
aaksheytalwar said:
Sell it and buy a crucial instead.
Click to expand...
By what logic have you arrived at this advice?

The m4 is well behind the times compared to the the current offerings from SF2281 drives, Samsungs 830/840/840 Pro, anything from Plextor, the Corsair Neutron or even the actual Octane itself. The OP also said they already own an m4 and unfortunately had compatibility issues with their laptop.
 
Coup27 said:
By what logic have you arrived at this advice?

The m4 is well behind the times compared to the the current offerings from SF2281 drives, Samsungs 830/840/840 Pro, anything from Plextor, the Corsair Neutron or even the actual Octane itself. The OP also said they already own an m4 and unfortunately had compatibility issues with their laptop.
Click to expand...

Oh brother. 🙄

Anything using Sandforce controllers
- great when empty, not so great as you fill up your drive. so-called "stead state" read/write speeds
- Sandforce-specific issues; only Intel has mostly fixed it but they aren't sharing their firmware with anyone else for the time being (Anandtech did an article about this, google it)
- crippled speeds when dealing with incompressible data
- don't do as well in NAND endurance tests at XS
- some brands don't even have TRIM working (e.g., Sandisk Extreme)

Intel w/ Sandforce (e.g., 330)
- same issues as the Sandforces in terms of incompressible data and slower steady state speeds, but without as many fatal firmware issues as regular Sandforce drives

OCZ non-Sandforce
- die surprisingly young according to NAND endurance tests I've seen
- OCZ on the verge of bankruptcy, so good luck with that warranty if the company goes under

Samsung 840:
- TLC NAND has questionable endurance; all we know for sure is that it's less durable than MLC 2x nm NAND, probably by a lot
- unproven firmware

Plextor M5S:
- So cheap they don't even come with screws, possibly less NAND endurance than you'd expect from same-rated NAND directly from Intel/Micron
- Other Plextor models use Toshiba NAND I believe, but once again, they do not produce their own NAND
- But generally speaking Plextor is reliable and a good alternative to M4/830s and I would not fault anyone for getting a Plextor drive

Samsung 830:
- No real issues though write amplification in worst-case scenarios is among the worst; idle power is low but write power is among the highest in its class (still lower than hard drives though, and I would argue that idle is more important than load since you spend more time in idle than in load)
- Great overall choice for speed AND reliability

Crucial M4:
- known issues with older firmware and the latest firmware; but if you use the second-newest firmware (00F, I believe) it's been known to be very stable
- for modest desktop workloads the M4 is in the same league as the Samsung 830 and Intel non-Sandforce http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2186803 (but the 830 does pull away overall in heavier loads). That is, if you did a blind taste test, so to speak, you probably wouldn't be able to tell which was the M4 and which was the 830, in most typical desktop scenarios.
- IMFT NAND is currently doing extremely well in XS's NAND endurance tests; even without TRIM, the first-gen Intel SSD has outlasted many other drives on a per-GB basis

Intel non-Sandforce:
- The best reliability. Who cares if other drives are slightly faster if they die younger or have other issues with endurance or steady state speeds? Intel non-Sandforce is the top choice of many, when reliability is more important than speed.
- Harder to find these days, especially at a reasonable price
 
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I only experience a noticeable performance difference between my first/second generation SATA II SSD drives and newer SATA III 6Gb/s SSD drives. Some CPU and database intensive programs open several seconds faster.

However, I experience almost no perceptible difference between my 256GB: Plextor M3S, Samsung 830 and Crucial M4.

I personally recommend the Crucial M4 because it's the sweet spot in price, size, features, compatibility and reliability (before the last firmware update.) So if I was *lucky* enough to win a free Octane 512, I immediately sell it and get an M4 512GB too. 🙂
 
Great post my arse. That post is a complete load of hyperbole half of which is unproven.

So much of an SSD expert he thinks that the Corsair Neutron uses a Sandforce controller.

I'm certainly not going to counter every point so I'll let the OP decide who's advice they wish to listen to.
 
Coup27 said:
Great post my arse. That post is a complete load of hyperbole half of which is unproven.

So much of an SSD expert he thinks that the Corsair Neutron uses a Sandforce controller.

I'm certainly not going to counter every point so I'll let the OP decide who's advice they wish to listen to.
Click to expand...

Okay so one error destroys the ENTIRE post? Lol. Put Neutron in with the other unproven controller pile + doesn't make own NAND pile.

You wrote:

The m4 is well behind the times compared to the the current offerings from SF2281 drives, Samsungs 830/840/840 Pro, anything from Plextor, the Corsair Neutron or even the actual Octane itself. The OP also said they already own an m4 and unfortunately had compatibility issues with their laptop.

The fact that you promote non-Intel SF2281 speaks to your credibility. Since you seem to think non-Intel SF2281 is so great, try reading: http://www.anandtech.com/show/5508/intel-ssd-520-review-cherryville-brings-reliability-to-sandforce and try reading up on steady-state and incompressible read/write speeds.

RE: the M4 laptop issue that could be a firmware update away from being a non-issue. Which is why I recommended 00F.
 
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Coup27 said:
Great post my arse. That post is a complete load of hyperbole half of which is unproven.

So much of an SSD expert he thinks that the Corsair Neutron uses a Sandforce controller.

I'm certainly not going to counter every point so I'll let the OP decide who's advice they wish to listen to.
Click to expand...

I was referring more to the overall tenor of the post.

I was never burned once in my entire computing history by buying the previous generation and staying put with firmware updates. The latest and greatest are for guinea pigs.

You want tried-and-true for all the aforementioned reasons, get the M4. There's a reason why OCZ gets a bad rap.

Anyway, once users start ditching their old dusty Plextor M3P/S for the newer shinier M5S, I start snatching up those M3s. 🙂
 
The M4 issue with the W520 was something like this:

1-Widnows didn't want to install at all.
2-Updated BIOS and installation worked but still had problems(freezing).
3-Updated firmware to 0009 and almost all problems are gone. I lived with it.
4-Just updated to the latest firmware and I wish I didn't. Windows now goes BSOD/freezed whenever it feels to(like one time every three days)


Anybody wants a 512 GB octane 🙂 ?
 
iamgenius said:
The M4 issue with the W520 was something like this:

1-Widnows didn't want to install at all.
2-Updated BIOS and installation worked but still had problems(freezing).
3-Updated firmware to 0009 and almost all problems are gone. I lived with it.
4-Just updated to the latest firmware and I wish I didn't. Windows now goes BSOD/freezed whenever it feels to(like one time every three days)


Anybody wants a 512 GB octane 🙂 ?
Click to expand...

Try going back to 0009 or to 00F; that should solve the problem. Not sure what's up with the latest M4 firmware but it's not as stable as 00F or 0009.
 
blastingcap said:
The fact that you promote non-Intel SF2281 speaks to your credibility.
Click to expand...
When did I state this? That's right, I didn't. You don't really need me to respond because you're doing a good enough job of making up my posts for me.

If you have followed any of my posts in the last 6 months in this forum you would know that I don't actually promote any Sandforce based drive. My recommendations used to be the m4 for value, Samsung for overall, or Plextor for top of the range. Although that advice was made before the 840/840P was released.

My comment was simply a reference that the m4 has been left behind the competition in performance and every other major SSD player has released a newer drive, some even more than 1 since the m4 was released. With SSD pricing the way it is, you can get an 830 for the same price as an m4, which leaves the m4 well behind the competition all round.
 
Coup27 said:
By what logic have you arrived at this advice?

The m4 is well behind the times compared to the the current offerings from SF2281 drives, Samsungs 830/840/840 Pro, anything from Plextor, the Corsair Neutron or even the actual Octane itself. The OP also said they already own an m4 and unfortunately had compatibility issues with their laptop.
Click to expand...

The OP already stated the reason why he's having M4 issues is with new firmware he recently went to. Obviously he should roll back to 0009 or 00F which are stable. So we'll ignore that portion of your post.

As for the rest of your post:

If you do NOT recommend Sandforce SF2281, you should not have brought them up without caveats while making comparisons; you should just ignore them completely (as many risk-averse enthusiasts do) or say something like "the m4 is slower than this other drive.. that I don't recommend by the way." Instead you made a sweeping statement in your invidious comparison between an M4 and SF2281 drives; the implication was that speed trumps all and that M4 was so far behind even SF2281 as to make the M4 a bad buy.

Even if we accept your "explanation" at face value, I disagree with your blanket assertion that Sandforce is necessarily faster. Many have made the case that IOPS matters more than sequential, that you can't really tell the difference between any of the modern SSDs in typical desktop situations, and that Sandforce drives choke on incompressible data and also choke as you fill them up with data (steady state speeds).

Lastly, and this is the point you seem to be missing since you focused almost entirely on speed: speed is not everything. NAND endurance, firmware and controller reliability, warranty and customer support, etc. all factor in. There comes a point where even an m4 gives you "enough" speed; where in a blind "taste test" you probably couldn't reliably tell whether a drive was a 830 or an M4 in most situations. And once you reach that level of speed, speed becomes a lot less relevant. (I speak from experience as I have a hard time telling whether I'm on an M4 or 830 in typical desktop situations.)

I agree with you that for the same price I'd probably get the 830, but I disagree with you on how to get there.

Coup27 said:
When did I state this? That's right, I didn't. You don't really need me to respond because you're doing a good enough job of making up my posts for me.

If you have followed any of my posts in the last 6 months in this forum you would know that I don't actually promote any Sandforce based drive. My recommendations used to be the m4 for value, Samsung for overall, or Plextor for top of the range. Although that advice was made before the 840/840P was released.

My comment was simply a reference that the m4 has been left behind the competition in performance and every other major SSD player has released a newer drive, some even more than 1 since the m4 was released. With SSD pricing the way it is, you can get an 830 for the same price as an m4, which leaves the m4 well behind the competition all round.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
blastingcap said:
Oh brother. 🙄

Anything using Sandforce controllers
- great when empty, not so great as you fill up your drive. so-called "stead state" read/write speeds
- Sandforce-specific issues; only Intel has mostly fixed it but they aren't sharing their firmware with anyone else for the time being (Anandtech did an article about this, google it)
- crippled speeds when dealing with incompressible data
- don't do as well in NAND endurance tests at XS
- some brands don't even have TRIM working (e.g., Sandisk Extreme)

Intel w/ Sandforce (e.g., 330)
- same issues as the Neutron/OCZ/etc. but without as many fatal firmware issues

OCZ non-Sandforce
- die surprisingly young according to NAND endurance tests I've seen
- OCZ on the verge of bankruptcy, so good luck with that warranty if the company goes under

Samsung 840:
- TLC NAND has questionable endurance; all we know for sure is that it's less durable than MLC 2x nm NAND, probably by a lot
- unproven firmware

Plextor M5S:
- So cheap they don't even come with screws, possibly less NAND endurance than you'd expect from same-rated NAND directly from Intel/Micron
- Other Plextor models use Toshiba NAND I believe, but once again, they do not produce their own NAND
- But generally speaking Plextor is reliable and a good alternative to M4/830s and I would not fault anyone for getting a Plextor drive

Samsung 830:
- No real issues though write amplification in worst-case scenarios is among the worst; idle power is low but write power is among the highest in its class (still lower than hard drives though, and I would argue that idle is more important than load since you spend more time in idle than in load)
- Great overall choice for speed AND reliability

Crucial M4:
- known issues with older firmware and the latest firmware; but if you use the second-newest firmware (00F, I believe) it's been known to be very stable
- for modest desktop workloads the M4 is in the same league as the Samsung 830 and Intel non-Sandforce http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2186803 (but the 830 does pull away overall in heavier loads). That is, if you did a blind taste test, so to speak, you probably wouldn't be able to tell which was the M4 and which was the 830, in most typical desktop scenarios.
- IMFT NAND is currently doing extremely well in XS's NAND endurance tests; even without TRIM, the first-gen Intel SSD has outlasted many other drives on a per-GB basis

Intel non-Sandforce:
- The best reliability. Who cares if other drives are slightly faster if they die younger or have other issues with endurance or steady state speeds? Intel non-Sandforce is the top choice of many, when reliability is more important than speed.
- Harder to find these days, especially at a reasonable price
Click to expand...

why not mention the 840 PRO? seems to lead in almost measurable numbers sans price.

OP I don't always make SSD recommendations, but when i do i never recommend OCZ

OP sell that OCZ and never buy an SSD from them ever.....like i mean ever, unless you hate your computer and yourself
 
For one thing, the Samsung 840 isn't available yet, release date October 23rd. 🙂

Therefore it's a new unproven drive that doesn't deserve a price premium. I even think the Samsung 830 is overpriced based on the competition.

Die shrinks make NAND cheaper to produce (and reduce longevity,) not necessarily faster in the real world. What makes SSD's fast are access times.

Samsung 840 Pro ($269 preorder on Newegg)
Read .083ms
Write .042ms
P/E cycles 1000

Samsung 830 ($199 on Newegg)
Read .070
Write .050
P/E cycles 3000
 
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bradley said:
For one thing, the Samsung 840 isn't available yet, release date October 23rd. 🙂

Therefore it's a new unproven drive that doesn't deserve a price premium. I even think the Samsung 830 is overpriced based on the competition.

Die shrinks make NAND cheaper to produce (and reduce longevity,) not necessarily faster in the real world. What makes SSD's fast are access times.

Samsung 840 Pro ($269 preorder on Newegg)
Read .083ms
Write .042ms
P/E cycles 1000

Samsung 830 ($199 on Newegg)
Read .070
Write .050
P/E cycles 3000
Click to expand...

830 overpriced for 128gb $89.99?....nah i dont think so.

Samsung reliability is like money in the bank. you can count on it.
 
n0x1ous said:
830 overpriced for 128gb $89.99?....nah i dont think so.

Samsung reliability is like money in the bank. you can count on it.
Click to expand...

The 128GB has less channels though and will be slower.

I actually love the 830, and own one. Though I can't tell the difference between my Crucial M4 and Samsung 830.

However, I just checked Slickdeals, all things SSD have been changing rapidly. The current cheapest recent price for the 830 256GB was Newegg @ $169 vs. $160 for the M4. I'm surprised how much Samsung has made their product competitive.

You are right. For only $10 less it's hard to recommend the M4. However, sadly, the Plextor M3 is still overpriced for what it offers.

There you have it. 🙂
 
FYI/OT, I've been using the 0309 FW on my M4, and it's rock solid (plus it fixed that nasty bug where the drive craps out after 5000 hours.)
 
Have a backup solution. Like use windows image backup .... made image on external drive,,,, congrats enjoy the ssd my friend. gl
 
Yeah, sell it.

Quite frankly, if someone gave me an OCZ drive for free and said I could never sell it, I'd just use it as a temporary storage drive, or something. Or maybe a paperweight.

Their reputation really is that bad.
 
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