Will any electric vehicle have the long lasting enthusiast appeal many ICE vehicles of the past have today?

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CP5670

Diamond Member
Jun 24, 2004
5,452
558
126
I would like an EV but had several issues with the ones I tried. The Taycan feels great to drive but the range is a deal breaker to me, and I wasn't a fan of the all-touchscreen controls. The Lucid Air looks really nice overall but is quite expensive.

I like the instant acceleration you get in an EV more than just 0-60 time. It feels very responsive compared to most ICE cars.
 

NutBucket

Lifer
Aug 30, 2000
27,011
532
126
To a lesser degree, the Porsche Taycan Turbo S and Audi RS e tron GT have enthusiast followings. Time will tell how well they hold up long term in both appeal and vehicle longevity.
Because those are two of the only EVs designed with driving dynamics as a selling point. It's like the 70's again and we're being sold on GTOs and Chargers (not that there's anything wrong with that). But nothing will ever touch those for cool factor.
 

Commodus

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2004
9,205
6,790
136
I would like an EV but had several issues with the ones I tried. The Taycan feels great to drive but the range is a deal breaker to me, and I wasn't a fan of the all-touchscreen controls. The Lucid Air looks really nice overall but is quite expensive.

I like the instant acceleration you get in an EV more than just 0-60 time. It feels very responsive compared to most ICE cars.

I've only been in an EV once, an early Tesla Model S, but the acceleration was fascinating — the instant torque feels like a solid wave pushing you forward. I can only imagine what it's like now that even the 'entry' Model S is over two seconds faster to 60MPH than the car I was in.

Right now, I'd say the sweet spot for EVs is the upper mainstream/entry luxury bracket, where people may want quick acceleration but aren't about to head out to the track. The Ioniq 5, EV6, maybe certain BMW i-series cars, the Model 3. There are some genuinely exciting EVs out there, such as the EV6 GT, but the battery tech isn't quite there to provide that performance alongside good range figures. You'll likely see that change in the next few years.
 

thecoolnessrune

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2005
9,654
553
126

I suffer from pretty bad motion sickness. I hope I die before I have to feel the sudden acceleration. Motion sickness nausea typically ruins my entire day as I have to lie down for an hour or two to feel somewhat but not totally normal. My brain gets rattled.

I agree with the comments that I think it's mostly related to how we've been conditioned to feel cars. Many of us have ridden in cars since before we had long term memory functional. As a passenger you're still adjusted to the motions. I drove for 16 years before I bought a Tesla and everything about it's acceleration was jarring. It's instantaneous, and constant until you let off the throttle. With an ICE vehicle I was always used to the gear drop (rowing it myself, or an automatic downshifting), and each wave of acceleration was interrupted with another shift. You move your body and stiffen your core with anticipations of these movements over years of doing it.

When the generation raised on EV's come about, I expect the trend to entirely invert. I can see an interim generation that practices and drives EV's getting into say a semi truck that is still Diesel and needing to get used to the motion sickness of being rowed back and forth while moving through gears.

I have a friend with a Golf R he's gotten to 450HP at his point and he got motion sick the first time riding in my Tesla. He also gets motion sick on airplanes and cannot fly. I think for those predisposed to motion sickness that difference in acceleration that they were raised on makes all the difference.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
69,967
5,493
126
The feel could be changed with Software. At least it should be possible, but it may require some hardware changes.
 

Torn Mind

Lifer
Nov 25, 2012
11,183
2,511
136
I agree with the comments that I think it's mostly related to how we've been conditioned to feel cars. Many of us have ridden in cars since before we had long term memory functional. As a passenger you're still adjusted to the motions. I drove for 16 years before I bought a Tesla and everything about it's acceleration was jarring. It's instantaneous, and constant until you let off the throttle. With an ICE vehicle I was always used to the gear drop (rowing it myself, or an automatic downshifting), and each wave of acceleration was interrupted with another shift. You move your body and stiffen your core with anticipations of these movements over years of doing it.

When the generation raised on EV's come about, I expect the trend to entirely invert. I can see an interim generation that practices and drives EV's getting into say a semi truck that is still Diesel and needing to get used to the motion sickness of being rowed back and forth while moving through gears.

I have a friend with a Golf R he's gotten to 450HP at his point and he got motion sick the first time riding in my Tesla. He also gets motion sick on airplanes and cannot fly. I think for those predisposed to motion sickness that difference in acceleration that they were raised on makes all the difference.
Those new CVT "vacuum cleaner belt" transmissions had the same effect but because of the different feel, many manufacturers reencoded an "old-school" auto or manual transmission feel.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,095
513
126
I hear you OP. I have a 2014 CX-5 for driving around day to day and an Audi SQ8 for fun. in a few years the CX-5 will run its course and not sure which way to go. Like to get a CUV that is electric but feel they are over priced for what you get. As for longevity of the EVs? Hard to say given some of the higher end vehicles are just now getting the EV treatment. If Audi produces an EV R8 that has 300 miles of range will you turn away from it? I think the one issue with longevity for these cars is the battery itself. Unlike an ICE vehicle which can retain some of its value because it needs a new 100 dollar battery and a tank of gas a used up EV will need a new battery that costs thousands of dollars. I feel like we are going to see a radically different car market in the next 2-3 decades as the used market is going to struggle with affordable vehicles or may disappear all together as when they are used up after a decade they are basically scrap.
 

AdamK47

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
14,990
2,701
126
I hear you OP. I have a 2014 CX-5 for driving around day to day and an Audi SQ8 for fun. in a few years the CX-5 will run its course and not sure which way to go. Like to get a CUV that is electric but feel they are over priced for what you get. As for longevity of the EVs? Hard to say given some of the higher end vehicles are just now getting the EV treatment. If Audi produces an EV R8 that has 300 miles of range will you turn away from it? I think the one issue with longevity for these cars is the battery itself. Unlike an ICE vehicle which can retain some of its value because it needs a new 100 dollar battery and a tank of gas a used up EV will need a new battery that costs thousands of dollars. I feel like we are going to see a radically different car market in the next 2-3 decades as the used market is going to struggle with affordable vehicles or may disappear all together as when they are used up after a decade they are basically scrap.

Audi already did that in 2015 with an all-electric R8. It did not sell well and was cancelled after 1 year.

Found a commercial on YouTube that will probably be me in the future.

2018 Audi R8 Spyder Campaign: “Driver” - YouTube
 

manly

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
10,295
1,526
126
I hear you OP. I have a 2014 CX-5 for driving around day to day and an Audi SQ8 for fun. in a few years the CX-5 will run its course and not sure which way to go. Like to get a CUV that is electric but feel they are over priced for what you get. As for longevity of the EVs? Hard to say given some of the higher end vehicles are just now getting the EV treatment. If Audi produces an EV R8 that has 300 miles of range will you turn away from it? I think the one issue with longevity for these cars is the battery itself. Unlike an ICE vehicle which can retain some of its value because it needs a new 100 dollar battery and a tank of gas a used up EV will need a new battery that costs thousands of dollars. I feel like we are going to see a radically different car market in the next 2-3 decades as the used market is going to struggle with affordable vehicles or may disappear all together as when they are used up after a decade they are basically scrap.
The used car marketplace dwarfs new car sales. With the reliability gains in automobiles since the Great Recession, used cars aren't going anywhere. Not sure why you think the entire car needs to be scrapped just because 1/4 of its residual value is lost in a degraded battery pack. Furthermore, outside of the Nissan Leaf's uncooled packs, the BEV experience so far suggests a lot of longevity in battery packs. If anything, the trend line of new cars becoming unaffordable to the middle class suggests used cars become more important and not less. China has wanted entry into the U.S. auto market for some time, and I think it's inevitable they will figure out how to handle regulatory (and political) challenges.

If the pack is significantly degraded, that will be reflected in the market value of the vehicle (see Nissan Leafs pre-2020). The main problem with used BEV batteries is currently there is no infrastructure for high volume recycling, which will be needed a decade down the line. Certain developments like Tesla gluing all the cells together into a monolithic sled also seem like heading in the wrong direction.
 
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Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,095
513
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The used car marketplace dwarfs new car sales. With the reliability gains in automobiles since the Great Recession, used cars aren't going anywhere. Not sure why you think the entire car needs to be scrapped just because 1/4 of its residual value is lost in a degraded battery pack. Furthermore, outside of the Nissan Leaf's uncooled packs, the BEV experience so far suggests a lot of longevity in battery packs. If anything, the trend line of new cars becoming unaffordable to the middle class suggests used cars become more important and not less. China has wanted entry into the U.S. auto market for some time, and I think it's inevitable they will figure out how to handle regulatory (and political) challenges.

If the pack is significantly degraded, that will be reflected in the market value of the vehicle (see Nissan Leafs pre-2020). The main problem with used BEV batteries is currently there is no infrastructure for high volume recycling, which will be needed a decade down the line. Certain developments like Tesla gluing all the cells together into a monolithic sled also seem like heading in the wrong direction.

Right but that is my point. We have a 15 year old car today worth under 5K. If that car needs a 5K battery pack what is the value of the car? As for the unaffordable aspect of new vehicles, that is a real problem as well. I feel like the car market is set for some kind of awakening in the next 1-2 decades. New ICE and EV cars are increasingly unaffordable. Used market will become tighter as less and less ICE used cars are available.
 

Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
31,098
9,156
136
Right but that is my point. We have a 15 year old car today worth under 5K. If that car needs a 5K battery pack what is the value of the car? As for the unaffordable aspect of new vehicles, that is a real problem as well. I feel like the car market is set for some kind of awakening in the next 1-2 decades. New ICE and EV cars are increasingly unaffordable. Used market will become tighter as less and less ICE used cars are available.

and that 5k car will need how much maintenance for all its moving parts? what happens if the trans dies? or a gasket blows? the reduction in moving parts and required maintenance on EV is going to make up for the possibility of replacing the battery. also, as the new market grows, the aftermarket will grow as well, and replacement battery packs should drop dramatically in price.

btw, EVs are affordable - https://www.chevrolet.com/electric/bolt-ev
 

sportage

Lifer
Feb 1, 2008
11,493
3,155
136
All I know is being the nerd I am I jumped at the chance to buy the chevy Bolt EV. 2020. A dream to drive, I love it. The large displays, the odd shifter, and the stylish futuristic look not to mention the mind blowing technology. Being an electric car after all, the technology is going to be standard equipment. I look forward every time to drive somewhere, anywhere. "Yay, I get to drive my EV". I don't look at the EV as a technology shortcoming, yet the massive battery is only warranted for 8 years. And, it costs up's to 20k to replace that massive battery. But that's only an estimate on longevity.

Plus, many States in the union don't seem to like EV owners very much nor the cars themselves. I was shocked.... SHOCKED to discover my state adds a whopping $130 onto the yearly registration fee which in my state is already outrageous before the addition. And one state's legislators, down in one southern state, were actually trying to pass a law adding $1000 onto that yearly registration fee. Eventually, they opted for an increase of $100 instead.

And yes, I understand EV owners are not paying gas tax that supposedly goes to fix roads. However in my state I think that tax is going into politicians pockets via exotic trips, perks, more exotic trips and even more perks. Why? Because the roads sure aren't being fixed.
But the gas tax that a driver pays depends on how much gas that driver uses. Whereas for EV owners, that slapped-on "fixed amount" EV registration fee does not allow for how often one might actually drive. Plus, my EV is not spewing out pollution into the air like those gas cars thus where is the allowance for not polluting the air? And the allowance for creating a healthier environment?

I'm paying more for not polluting while a gas guzzler is paying less FOR polluting. What's the logic in THAT other than a hate from state legislatures for electric cars. And one would think a state would actually encourage more EV owners and more EV's on the road, however that is not the case. Poor Joe Biden has a real challenge before him in pushing the EV. Ohhhh, if only our future was the mentality of Star Trek... and not that of Donald Trump.

The bottom line is, one day we will all be owning and driving an electric vehicle. And the big surprise? You'll absolutely love it!!! Better range, faster charge, incredible technology, better battery technology, probably the next best thing to owning a flying car.
And sometimes when I'm driving around in my Bolt I actually feel there should be a hidden button somewhere to lift the car into flight. When you're driving an EV, you're not in Kansas anymore....

I don't know about the future of the EV, but I do know it's pretty frickin fantastic right now. Seriously, no one should listen to Fox or to Trump and just give one a try for yourself before knocking it. There are the misconceptions of driving an EV, and the reality of driving an EV. You won't get the truth from Fox News. To me its obvious Joe Biden is absolutely right, and Donald Trump is absolutely wrong. History, progress, they always win out in the end.
Besides, how the hell will you be able to operate your flying car if you have never driven an EV? Think about it.... ;)
 

Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
31,098
9,156
136
All I know is being the nerd I am I jumped at the chance to buy the chevy Bolt EV. 2020. A dream to drive, I love it. The large displays, the odd shifter, and the stylish futuristic look not to mention the mind blowing technology. Being an electric car after all, the technology is going to be standard equipment. I look forward every time to drive somewhere, anywhere. "Yay, I get to drive my EV". I don't look at the EV as a technology shortcoming, yet the massive battery is only warranted for 8 years. And, it costs up's to 20k to replace that massive battery. But that's only an estimate on longevity.

Plus, many States in the union don't seem to like EV owners very much nor the cars themselves. I was shocked.... SHOCKED to discover my state adds a whopping $130 onto the yearly registration fee which in my state is already outrageous before the addition. And one state's legislators, down in one southern state, were actually trying to pass a law adding $1000 onto that yearly registration fee. Eventually, they opted for an increase of $100 instead.

And yes, I understand EV owners are not paying gas tax that supposedly goes to fix roads. However in my state I think that tax is going into politicians pockets via exotic trips, perks, more exotic trips and even more perks. Why? Because the roads sure aren't being fixed.
But the gas tax that a driver pays depends on how much gas that driver uses. Whereas for EV owners, that slapped-on "fixed amount" EV registration fee does not allow for how often one might actually drive. Plus, my EV is not spewing out pollution into the air like those gas cars thus where is the allowance for not polluting the air? And the allowance for creating a healthier environment?

I'm paying more for not polluting while a gas guzzler is paying less FOR polluting. What's the logic in THAT other than a hate from state legislatures for electric cars. And one would think a state would actually encourage more EV owners and more EV's on the road, however that is not the case. Poor Joe Biden has a real challenge before him in pushing the EV. Ohhhh, if only our future was the mentality of Star Trek... and not that of Donald Trump.

The bottom line is, one day we will all be owning and driving an electric vehicle. And the big surprise? You'll absolutely love it!!! Better range, faster charge, incredible technology, better battery technology, probably the next best thing to owning a flying car.
And sometimes when I'm driving around in my Bolt I actually feel there should be a hidden button somewhere to lift the car into flight. When you're driving an EV, you're not in Kansas anymore....

I don't know about the future of the EV, but I do know it's pretty frickin fantastic right now. Seriously, no one should listen to Fox or to Trump and just give one a try for yourself before knocking it. There are the misconceptions of driving an EV, and the reality of driving an EV. You won't get the truth from Fox News. To me its obvious Joe Biden is absolutely right, and Donald Trump is absolutely wrong. History, progress, they always win out in the end.
Besides, how the hell will you be able to operate your flying car if you have never driven an EV? Think about it.... ;)
hindsight 20/20, i would have bought a Volt instead of my Mazda3. Still a hatchback, but my commuting would be entirely electric. It would be wonderful. Ah well, I'm still rocking good MPG in a fun-to-drive car.