Will any electric vehicle have the long lasting enthusiast appeal many ICE vehicles of the past have today?

[Commodus]

I've thought about that too. We will see what happens, but I have serious doubts that gasoline infrastructure will be phased out that quickly. The average age of cars on the road is over a decade and increasing today .. it's easy to be a six-figure ATOT posting person and claim that EVs will take over by 2035 or 2040, but most people are still driving cars from the 2000s as cost for all new and lightly used vehicles increases. Gas stations that accommodate new customers by adding chargers certainly aren't going to remove all of their pumps when even 10-20% of cars on the road are ICE. That's 10-20% of customers who definitely will not stop into the store and buy something that actually generates a profit.

Not to mention we are already seeing cost for lithium increase and demand outstrip supply, and vehicle manufacturers are stupidly producing crossovers and huge SUVs to cater to dumb American consumers who want the biggest heaviest vehicle that needs twice the battery capacity of a normal car with equivalent range ... so we will see come 2035 whether car manufacturers will be able to sell even close to the number of vehicles they can today once ICE sales are illegal.

But yeah, my ICE vehicles are for fun, so I'd be willing to have a bi-weekly or monthly fun drive on back roads to a gas station 50 miles away if that was the case. I work from home and walk or bike around town rather than create traffic and noise pollution in a car, really don't put too many miles on the cars.

I don't expect gas stations and ICE repair shops to vanish quickly, but there may be a tipping point where the conventional infrastructure loses some of its appeal. You don't have to see half the gas pumps vanish; it may just be that you have to drive 10 minutes to fill up instead of five, or that the must-have parts for your car regularly take ages to arrive.

I'd say EVs actually represent an opportunity to rethink how we handle travel stops. Gas stations can't do much more than offer convenience stores because virtually no one stays there for more than a few minutes. But with EVs, even the fastest charges will likely take 15-20 minutes, at least for the next while. You could have more extensive stores, coffee shops and restaurants. I still hope charging times improve, but there is a way to profit from the shift to EVs.

The lithium supply is an issue, but that's why companies are moving to solid-state and even sodium-ion batteries. The resource issue isn't a permanent one.

Crossovers and SUVs dominate EVs because they're popular in general and because it's currently harder to stuff large battery packs into sedans. You'd effectively have to reverse a couple of decades of changing preferences to undo that.

I'm not in a huge rush to get an EV, and there's a real chance my next car is a hybrid (hopefully a PHEV). But I'd say we should mentally prepare ourselves to transition, recognize that the industry will change and keep an open mind.

 

[Kaido]

I've thought about that too. We will see what happens, but I have serious doubts that gasoline infrastructure will be phased out that quickly. The average age of cars on the road is over a decade and increasing today .. it's easy to be a six-figure ATOT posting person and claim that EVs will take over by 2035 or 2040, but most people are still driving cars from the 2000s as cost for all new and lightly used vehicles increases. Gas stations that accommodate new customers by adding chargers certainly aren't going to remove all of their pumps when even 10-20% of cars on the road are ICE. That's 10-20% of customers who definitely will not stop into the store and buy something that actually generates a profit.

Not to mention we are already seeing cost for lithium increase and demand outstrip supply, and vehicle manufacturers are stupidly producing crossovers and huge SUVs to cater to dumb American consumers who want the biggest heaviest vehicle that needs twice the battery capacity of a normal car with equivalent range ... so we will see come 2035 whether car manufacturers will be able to sell even close to the number of vehicles they can today once ICE sales are illegal.

But yeah, my ICE vehicles are for fun, so I'd be willing to have a bi-weekly or monthly fun drive on back roads to a gas station 50 miles away if that was the case. I work from home and walk or bike around town rather than create traffic and noise pollution in a car, really don't put too many miles on the cars.

My question is, once EV's hit a tipping point, how is that going to affect the price of electricity? Big extra strain on the grid, more consumption, more infrastructure needed, etc.

 

[drnickriviera]

My question is, once EV's hit a tipping point, how is that going to affect the price of electricity? Big extra strain on the grid, more consumption, more infrastructure needed, etc.

I guess that would depend on how greedy the utility companies want to be? I guess no one really knows what the strain will be. Say we are talking an avg commute of 40miles and you get a horrible 3mi/kwh, so an extra 14kwh a day? My electric water heater uses 7.6kwh a day for 2 adults. 14kwh would be more along the line of central ac for a non mcmansion in the southern states. I'd guess we have plenty of juice for ev's if people would do some basic conservation. Simple things like not setting your ac to 65F when it's 100F out and no one is home like some of my tenants do

 

[Ken g6]

My question is, once EV's hit a tipping point, how is that going to affect the price of electricity? Big extra strain on the grid, more consumption, more infrastructure needed, etc.

Depends how it's done. If they keep the same old constant pricing for electricity, the price is sure to go up. If they do variable pricing and let your EV do arbitrage...

Each EV with V2G charger might earn $15,000 over 10 years

Storing power during off-peak hours and selling it at peak hours could profit EV owners, but the advantages will vary widely.

www.greencarreports.com

Realistically, grid improvements are probably needed, but not at an unprecedented scale.

 

[Kaido]

a little off topic but:
what is the expected lifespan of the drive motors in an ev ? Is it supposed to be similar to a gasoline engine? or diesel engine?

There's theory vs. reality. One guy already hit a million miles in his Tesla:

Early Tesla Model S road warrior successfully passes 1 million mile mark

It was just another milestone for a legendary Tesla Model S roar warrior, but it was a giant leap forward for electric vehicles as a whole.

www.teslarati.com

However:

The vehicle has since needed more replacements. Its battery, a used 63.1 kWh pack that was installed at the 1,202,000 km (746,000-mile) mark, had 211 miles of range in the beginning, and today, it still has 192 miles of range per charge left. The Model S has also gone through several more electric motors since it reached the 1 million km mark. Gemmingen noted that he is now on his eighth electric motor, and that the last few replacements have been underwhelming.

I wonder how that would compare to an ICE vehicle's drivetrain, engine, etc.

 

[Red Squirrel]

The fact that the battery made it 1.2mil km is impressive. Typically cars rust out beyond economical repair well before that so I'd say it did it's purpose even if it had to be switched out. I'm actually impressed the car chassis made it that far.


As for hydro rates I can totally see them jack it up. Once people NEED to use hydro to charge their cars they will jack it up. Kind of like how they do with gas for cars, and natural gas. They know that people NEED it, so they will price gauge just because they can. An ideal scenario is to heat with wood stove and have solar for an EV. Then you're less reliant on utilities.

 

[Fenixgoon]

yes, just not to us. to the motorheads who are just being born, the high-pitched whine of an electric motor will be music to their ears. hell, i enjoy it too.

times change and culture is not immutable.

 

[Kaido]

yes, just not to us. to the motorheads who are just being born, the high-pitched whine of an electric motor will be music to their ears. hell, i enjoy it too.

times change and culture is not immutable.

But wait, aren't we still teenagers?!

 

[Kaido]

Depends how it's done. If they keep the same old constant pricing for electricity, the price is sure to go up. If they do variable pricing and let your EV do arbitrage...

Each EV with V2G charger might earn $15,000 over 10 years

Storing power during off-peak hours and selling it at peak hours could profit EV owners, but the advantages will vary widely.

www.greencarreports.com

Realistically, grid improvements are probably needed, but not at an unprecedented scale.

Tesla announced a really interesting program on Investor Day:

Tesla plans to offer a $30 monthly subscription for unlimited overnight home charging. It will launch in Texas because the windy nights help generate power.

The subscription was a way to incentivize customers to charge their vehicles at home using a source of renewable energy, Tesla's Drew Baglino said.

www.businessinsider.com

Basically:

1. Unlimited overnight home charging for $30 a month
2. Currently available only in Texas
3. Texas generates the most wind power in America, and the wind blows more at night, thereby creating an opportunity to use cheaper electricity to charge the cars

I mean, that's pretty huge from a financial perspective! I commute up to 2 hours a day with work. Minimum fuel-tank fill-up from a low tank is like $50 these days, times multiple times a week sometimes, times all month...that would be some major cost-savings long-term!

 

[Commodus]

yes, just not to us. to the motorheads who are just being born, the high-pitched whine of an electric motor will be music to their ears. hell, i enjoy it too.

times change and culture is not immutable.

That's the funny part — the holdouts insisting they need the roar of a V8 or the feel of a manual shifter are partly acting out of nostalgia and tradition. They like ICE because it's all they've really known.

By the time my infant son is old enough to drive, EVs will be much more commonplace. In fact, new gas car sales will have been banned in some states and countries for a few years. He's not going to dream of a burbling muscle car engine, if he's a car enthusiast; he's going to yearn after some tri- or quad-motor EV that makes the Model S Plaid seem a bit pokey.

Besides, I get a kick out of how much performance an EV can deliver even in form factors you wouldn't expect. You can smoke some sports cars (in a straight line, anyway) in the crossover you use to pick the kids up from school.

 

[repoman0]

yes, just not to us. to the motorheads who are just being born, the high-pitched whine of an electric motor will be music to their ears. hell, i enjoy it too.

times change and culture is not immutable.

Being a gearhead is already not even a thing to more and more people. I’m 33 and into cars .. very close to 0 of my friends and peers are (mostly a bunch of ME/EE and software engineers!) and most think it’s wacky. Maybe that’s just my circle but the number of interesting cars on the road at any moment at least here is minuscule. It’s a sea of crossovers and cheap reliable boring transportation pods and of course pickup trucks.

Culture is definitely not immutable .. I see it already moving towards enthusiasm for driving and cars disappearing rather than shifting towards EVs.

 

[Red Squirrel]

yes, just not to us. to the motorheads who are just being born, the high-pitched whine of an electric motor will be music to their ears. hell, i enjoy it too.

times change and culture is not immutable.

I can see that being a thing, where people or even manufacturers themselves work to make their EVs sound cool. There is actually a science with even gas cars to make them sound nice. I have a full electric snow blower and it actually does sound kind of cool when I spool up the auger to the max speed, so I can totally see people being a fan of making EVs have a cool sound.

 

[Kaido]

That's the funny part — the holdouts insisting they need the roar of a V8 or the feel of a manual shifter are partly acting out of nostalgia and tradition. They like ICE because it's all they've really known.

By the time my infant son is old enough to drive, EVs will be much more commonplace. In fact, new gas car sales will have been banned in some states and countries for a few years. He's not going to dream of a burbling muscle car engine, if he's a car enthusiast; he's going to yearn after some tri- or quad-motor EV that makes the Model S Plaid seem a bit pokey.

Besides, I get a kick out of how much performance an EV can deliver even in form factors you wouldn't expect. You can smoke some sports cars (in a straight line, anyway) in the crossover you use to pick the kids up from school.

2023 Nissan Leaf EV 0 to 60 = 5.5 seconds

Ecoboost Mustang 0 to 60 = 5.1 seconds

Modern technology is crazy lol

 

[AdamK47]

That's the funny part — the holdouts insisting they need the roar of a V8 or the feel of a manual shifter are partly acting out of nostalgia and tradition. They like ICE because it's all they've really known.

By the time my infant son is old enough to drive, EVs will be much more commonplace. In fact, new gas car sales will have been banned in some states and countries for a few years. He's not going to dream of a burbling muscle car engine, if he's a car enthusiast; he's going to yearn after some tri- or quad-motor EV that makes the Model S Plaid seem a bit pokey.

Besides, I get a kick out of how much performance an EV can deliver even in form factors you wouldn't expect. You can smoke some sports cars (in a straight line, anyway) in the crossover you use to pick the kids up from school.

Your perspective comes from the individual looking at a vehicle as an automotive appliance. One that will be used up and then sold or disposed of.

My OP was about the type of vehicle that gets taken out on nice weekends. Spends 4 to 6 months of winter in storage never to be driven during the time. Is cleaned thoughly before putting it away every single time. Is savored on every single drive it is taken out on.

 

[Red Squirrel]

2023 Nissan Leaf EV 0 to 60 = 5.5 seconds

Ecoboost Mustang 0 to 60 = 5.1 seconds

Modern technology is crazy lol

It's always funny watching videos of a Tesla showing up to a drag strip. They actually need to hit the brakes before the finish line so they don't go under the legal time for a non modified car.

I kind of want to see a Tesla semi show up at a truck pull, that would be equally fun. Or an eCascadia, they look more like a normal diesel truck so that would really throw people off.

 

[AdamK47]

It's always funny watching videos of a Tesla showing up to a drag strip. They actually need to hit the brakes before the finish line so they don't go under the legal time for a non modified car.

I kind of want to see a Tesla semi show up at a truck pull, that would be equally fun. Or an eCascadia, they look more like a normal diesel truck so that would really throw people off.

Isn't it the other way around? Modified cars without proper safety equipment need to brake so they don't go under the threshold and get kicked out. Stock vehicles can go as fast as possible without extra safety equipment installed.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Isn't it the other way around? Modified cars without proper safety equipment need to brake so they don't go under the threshold and get kicked out. Stock vehicles can go as fast as possible without extra safety equipment installed.

Hmm maybe that is the case, I may have understood wrong.

 

[Commodus]

Your perspective comes from the individual looking at a vehicle as an automotive appliance. One that will be used up and then sold or disposed of.

My OP was about the type of vehicle that gets taken out on nice weekends. Spends 4 to 6 months of winter in storage never to be driven during the time. Is cleaned thoughly before putting it away every single time. Is savored on every single drive it is taken out on.

I'm not a big fan of treating cars that way. Not because I see them as appliances, but because it feels like you're wasting them. A car you can't drive most of the time isn't very fun to me; I like the idea of something I can appreciate most days. Porsches are appealing in part because you can drive most of them every day; you can take your 911 to work.

And I'm intrigued by EVs in part because the performance can be strong even in seemingly plain cars. A Genesis GV60 Performance may be a crossover, but a 0-60 of 3.7 seconds could make some sports car owners question their priorities in life.

 

[AdamK47]

I'm not a big fan of treating cars that way. Not because I see them as appliances, but because it feels like you're wasting them. A car you can't drive most of the time isn't very fun to me; I like the idea of something I can appreciate most days. Porsches are appealing in part because you can drive most of them every day; you can take your 911 to work.

And I'm intrigued by EVs in part because the performance can be strong even in seemingly plain cars. A Genesis GV60 Performance may be a crossover, but a 0-60 of 3.7 seconds could make some sports car owners question their priorities in life.

Then again there are strong arguments against 0-60 times of EVs being the end all be all performance indicator average people think it is. I blame marketing on that one.

 

[Commodus]

Then again there is a strong argument against 0-60 times of EVs being the end all be all performance indicator average people think it is. I blame marketing on that one.

Oh, I agree... handling is important, and some EVs have pretty bland driving characteristics or even some problems (say, long braking distances). But it's still fun to have a car that's quick off the line, and frankly EVs introduce some excitement to categories where it rarely shows up.

 

[AdamK47]

Oh, I agree... handling is important, and some EVs have pretty bland driving characteristics or even some problems (say, long braking distances). But it's still fun to have a car that's quick off the line, and frankly EVs introduce some excitement to categories where it rarely shows up.

It can be fun. Although my '19 e-tron may not be the quickest 0-60 with 5.5s for a nearly 6000 lbs vehicle, it's still fun to floor it.

 

[NutBucket]

Isn't it the other way around? Modified cars without proper safety equipment need to brake so they don't go under the threshold and get kicked out. Stock vehicles can go as fast as possible without extra safety equipment installed.

Pretty sure that isn't accurate. Tracks will kick you out for running sub-10 no matter what, usually. I think the threshold for a helmet is 12?

Here's one track:

• Roll bar mandatory if full-bodied car running 11.00-11.49 (7.00-7.35*); Convertibles running 11.00-13.49 (7.00-8.25*); Roll cage at 10.99 (6.99*) or quicker.
• Jacket with safety rating of 3.2A/15 or 3.2A/20 for cars running 10.00-11.49 (6.40-7.35*) seconds or quicker.
• 13.99 (8.59*) seconds or quicker must have a Snell 2005 or newer helmet.
• Unaltered 2008 OEM model-year and newer production cars running slower than 9.99 and 135MPH do not have to meet the requirements and specifications for the Summit Racing Series except for the following: Convertibles and T-tops must meet Summit Racing Series roll bar and roll cage requirements, all drivers must meet the Summit Racing Series helmet and protective clothing requirements.

 

[AdamK47]

Pretty sure that isn't accurate. Tracks will kick you out for running sub-10 no matter what, usually. I think the threshold for a helmet is 12?

Here's one track:

• Roll bar mandatory if full-bodied car running 11.00-11.49 (7.00-7.35*); Convertibles running 11.00-13.49 (7.00-8.25*); Roll cage at 10.99 (6.99*) or quicker.
• Jacket with safety rating of 3.2A/15 or 3.2A/20 for cars running 10.00-11.49 (6.40-7.35*) seconds or quicker.
• 13.99 (8.59*) seconds or quicker must have a Snell 2005 or newer helmet.
• Unaltered 2008 OEM model-year and newer production cars running slower than 9.99 and 135MPH do not have to meet the requirements and specifications for the Summit Racing Series except for the following: Convertibles and T-tops must meet Summit Racing Series roll bar and roll cage requirements, all drivers must meet the Summit Racing Series helmet and protective clothing requirements.

I meant for the car. Of course you have to wear a helmet.

You Can Now Take Your Stock 9-Second Car To The Drag Strip Without A Roll Cage | Carscoops

 

[NutBucket]

Yes, look at the last bullet. Even unmodified can't run faster than 10.

 

[AdamK47]

The Nevera Rimac is/will be found in many collections. I'm curious as to how the batteries will hold up over the years.

To a lesser degree, the Porsche Taycan Turbo S and Audi RS e tron GT have enthusiast followings. Time will tell how well they hold up long term in both appeal and vehicle longevity.