Will Acura ever...

[GTaudiophile]

Does anyone think Acura will ever make the TSX available with the 240 HP turbo 4 and SH-AWD system of the RDX?

Why or why not?

 

[Imported]

One can only hope.

 

[fbrdphreak]

Doubtful. It would compete too much with the TL, and besides, it's supposed to be the upscale Accord. Accord-ish != turbo AWD

 

[Demon-Xanth]

Acura almost seems like a make afraid to be truly great. A lot of their cars seem 90% of the way there, but just need a little extra nudge. ie: if they added 2 cylinders to the NSX's V6 and made it have 360HP, it would be great. If they updated the NSX after 8 years, it would be great. But they just got close and said "good enough" and went home.

 

[thomsbrain]

Demon-Xanth, I have to agree with you. Honda often designs with an idealist viewpoint that doesn't always reflect the reality of the market. They worry about purity of vision, practicality, and forward-thinking design, and it slows product development and often leads to cars that don't have the "right" specs for a segment. They always deliver fantastic engines, but a fantastic knife doesn't always cut it at the gun party. So the cars are always just a bit underpowered compared to, say, Nissan, who have never been shy about building a comparative sledgehammer, even if it is cruder and less responsive.

The Insight was the same story applied to hybrids. It had groundbreaking technology and mileage that is still unparalleled, but the focus on the ideal of fuel-economy over all other considerations meant that it wasn't as appealing as the hybrids that followed it. Their new wave of hybrids are another take: They are opting for low-cost, serial designs. They are probably the best solution for the time-being, but they'll have a tough time selling againt the Prius that can drive "electric-only," even if it is pointless to do so. Again, ideals over marketing.

I think you can sum it up by saying that Honda is a company where the engineers have more control over the company than they do at most other automakers. They make cars that are appealing from an engineering standpoint, the way a bridge might be "beautiful" because it uses less material or is very durable. But those ideals don't always perfectly match up with what sells cars or gets around a racetrack the fastest.

 

[evident]

i really would like to see the TSX have a SHAWD 4cyl for their top type-s line, just like the TL has the V6 SH-AWD. while they are at it, lose the nasty grill-beak and redesign the TL again so it doesn't look like crap

 

[BassBomb]

Honda tries to keep as much parity as it can between its cars so they don't overlap so much.

A 4WD TSX with a more powerful engine would probably hurt TL sales.

 

[zoiks]

Originally posted by: BassBomb
Honda tries to keep as much parity as it can between its cars so they don't overlap so much.

A 4WD TSX with a more powerful engine would probably hurt TL sales.

I think the TL and the RL overlapped a lot except that the RL was AWD and overpriced.

 

[KDKPSJ]

Originally posted by: zoiks

Originally posted by: BassBomb
Honda tries to keep as much parity as it can between its cars so they don't overlap so much.

A 4WD TSX with a more powerful engine would probably hurt TL sales.

I think the TL and the RL overlapped a lot except that the RL was AWD and overpriced.

True. With introduction of SH-AWD TL, it's even worse as RL is only slightly bigger and a lot slower.

I think Acura should reorganize its sedan line up. Once legedary Legend, RL, is now just a big slow sedan and beaten by everyone, even by its brother TL. Once rev-happy sports sedan with fine balance of luxury and sportiness, TSX, is now another oversized (consider it's targetting compact sports sedan market) slow family sedan. Only TL is going right way.

 

[DarkThinker]

No one will listen....I don't know what these manufacturers are thinking off...
All I wanted was a 6 speed TL-S and RWD (older design) Perfect! I was hoping that would be the case in the next generation.
They ended up ruining the awesome TL design and made the TL AWD.
The TL was like the holy grail of Japanese cars to me that just needed some slight changes to become something excellent.
But I guess the only way someone can get a real car is by looking towards Germany these days ehhhh which I don't mind, but my wallet does...

 

[PricklyPete]

Doubt it. My feeling is that the TSX is a "responsible", "semi-luxury" sedan. With that being the focus, it looks like the 2.2L diesel engine will be the "up-level" engine choice...and I highly doubt that we'll ever see the AWD system in the car...although I could be wrong. I really would love a diesel version of the car with SH-AWD.

 

[BassBomb]

Acura TSX - Entry Level Luxury / Family Car (notch above Accord EX-L 4cyl)
Acura TL - Mid level Luxury / Large car V6 <-- competes against ES350/G35
Acura RL - Flagship <-- needs a V8, it is not competing well against M45/GS430

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: thomsbrain
Demon-Xanth, I have to agree with you. Honda often designs with an idealist viewpoint that doesn't always reflect the reality of the market. They worry about purity of vision, practicality, and forward-thinking design, and it slows product development and often leads to cars that don't have the "right" specs for a segment. They always deliver fantastic engines, but a fantastic knife doesn't always cut it at the gun party. So the cars are always just a bit underpowered compared to, say, Nissan, who have never been shy about building a comparative sledgehammer, even if it is cruder and less responsive.

The Insight was the same story applied to hybrids. It had groundbreaking technology and mileage that is still unparalleled, but the focus on the ideal of fuel-economy over all other considerations meant that it wasn't as appealing as the hybrids that followed it. Their new wave of hybrids are another take: They are opting for low-cost, serial designs. They are probably the best solution for the time-being, but they'll have a tough time selling againt the Prius that can drive "electric-only," even if it is pointless to do so. Again, ideals over marketing.

I think you can sum it up by saying that Honda is a company where the engineers have more control over the company than they do at most other automakers. They make cars that are appealing from an engineering standpoint, the way a bridge might be "beautiful" because it uses less material or is very durable. But those ideals don't always perfectly match up with what sells cars or gets around a racetrack the fastest.

On the other hand, Honda has always weathered economic down-cycles very well and they look to be in a position to do so once again.

To me, Honda is a company that has found its niche and is happy to remain there. They have done a remarkably good job of keeping their focus on their core expertise and not allowing themselves to be blown about randomly by market whims.

ZV

 

[Dman877]

Actually, according to C&D, the next RL will get Honda's first ever production V8.

As for myself, I recently swapped my TSX for a WRX. Some things I miss but I have to say, the weak engine and annoying FWD habits are not among them.

Then again, if Honda built a small coupe on the S2000 platform with a decent motor, I'd trade my WRX in today.

 

[BassBomb]

Originally posted by: Dman877
Actually, according to C&D, the next RL will get Honda's first ever production V8.

As for myself, I recently swapped my TSX for a WRX. Some things I miss but I have to say, the weak engine and annoying FWD habits are not among them.

Then again, if Honda built a small coupe on the S2000 platform with a decent motor, I'd trade my WRX in today.

If that is true then what I was trying to explain regarding parity is what Honda still is striving to do.

ZV nailed it on the head, they shoot for an overall market and keep the niche working once they have found them. They removed the RSX because it overlapped in the ~200 hp small coupe niche since the SI got the new engine in 2006. In Canada they have a slight overlap with CSX and the Civic

The recent TSX/TL redesigns is why the RL is no longer as unique

 

[Slew Foot]

I love my 2008 TL-S! The new ones look like ass though.

 

[cheesehead]

I want another Integra. Cheap (for a sports car), light, zippy, and above all, very practical.

 

[KDKPSJ]

Originally posted by: Cheesehead
I want another Integra. Cheap (for a sports car), light, zippy, and above all, very practical.

Well, to be honest, I think discontinuing Integra/RSX was the best choice by Acura. Acura is supposed to be upscale brand, and RSX simply not fits there.

And also, you already have a choice --- Honda Civic Si.

 

[evident]

Originally posted by: Slew Foot
I love my 2008 TL-S! The new ones look like ass though.

im gonna be looking to buy a used one in 3-4 years. hopefully they will have some type of depreciation, but with the looks of the new one, it's doubtful.

 

[punjabiplaya]

Doesn't matter. You just wait for the new V10 NSX.

 

[thomsbrain]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

On the other hand, Honda has always weathered economic down-cycles very well and they look to be in a position to do so once again.

To me, Honda is a company that has found its niche and is happy to remain there. They have done a remarkably good job of keeping their focus on their core expertise and not allowing themselves to be blown about randomly by market whims.

ZV

Good points, and those are a couple reasons I'm an investor as well as an owner, despite my advocating for the devil.

 

[vshah]

Originally posted by: fbrdphreak
Doubtful. It would compete too much with the TL, and besides, it's supposed to be the upscale Accord. Accord-ish != turbo AWD

doesn't the TL have like 300hp now...?

 

[Muadib]

Originally posted by: vshah

Originally posted by: fbrdphreak
Doubtful. It would compete too much with the TL, and besides, it's supposed to be the upscale Accord. Accord-ish != turbo AWD

doesn't the TL have like 300hp now...?

The SH-AWD has 305hp, and the TL has 280hp.

Originally posted by: Slew Foot
I love my 2008 TL-S! The new ones look like ass though.

I'm hoping this attitude is in the majority, as I want a SH-AWD. Take one for a test drive the next time you go in for service, and you will see why. It handles light years better than the TL-S, and the interior is an improvement in every way. As for the outside, I don't mind the nose, it's the rear that I hate. I can live with it though.

I was all set make a deal for my 2004, but they didn't want to budge on the price of the 2009. I laughed at the guy when he wouldn't move from the msrp, and walked out. You will change you tune very soon, I said as I left. He tried to get me to return, but I didn't.

 

[evident]

Originally posted by: vshah

Originally posted by: fbrdphreak
Doubtful. It would compete too much with the TL, and besides, it's supposed to be the upscale Accord. Accord-ish != turbo AWD

doesn't the TL have like 300hp now...?

I think around there. it's a pretty powerful car and has a great ride and interior according to reviews( i've never been in one) but i can't stand the look

 

[cheesehead]

Originally posted by: everydae

Originally posted by: Cheesehead
I want another Integra. Cheap (for a sports car), light, zippy, and above all, very practical.

Well, to be honest, I think discontinuing Integra/RSX was the best choice by Acura. Acura is supposed to be upscale brand, and RSX simply not fits there.

And also, you already have a choice --- Honda Civic Si.

The Honda Civic Si is underpowered and under-engineered. 160HP in a heavy car with no independent rear suspension just won't cut it in this day and age - especially considering that it's only about $2,000 cheaper than an Impreza WRX or Mazdaspeed3, both of which have independent suspensions and a lot more power. The old Civic Type R (the 200HP version the rest of the world got) was much better.