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Will a R9800Pro work as a secondary vid card?

BenSkywalker

Diamond Member
I'm curious if anyone has any experience trying to run their R9800Pro as a secondary vid card, booting and running Windows off of a PCI based board and then just using the R9800 for a 3D board. I'm thinking about picking up either a Matrox board(more then likely) for my main adapter or picking up another nV part, something with better 2D then ATi. Colors are just too washed out to be acceptable, not to mention when really pushed the 2D quality falls off too far.
 
Colors are just too washed out to be acceptable, not to mention when really pushed the 2D quality falls off too far.
What drivers are you using? The reason I ask this is because when I bought my 9100 I tried a couple of drivers and found I liked the colors better on the 3.4?s rather than the 3.6?s. 3.6?s looked a ?little? washed out. So, their has been/is a difference in some of the drivers in this respect. Could try reinstalling or try a different driver.
 
You can just add a PCI card and switch the primary/secondary in the drivers while in windows. I'm suprised its that poor to go to those lengths, as thats not my experience. Your card is new enough, maybe make an exchange?
 
3D apps always use the primary adapter so if you made the 9800 the secondary, it would use the matrox for 3d gaming.
 
actually a lot of apps let you select which adapter in their graphics setup menu....all the electronics arts games come to mind...
but there may be some that wouldn't allow this.

-Vivan
 
Originally posted by: GtPrOjEcTX
Originally posted by: Bucksnort
must be something with your setup. most agree ATI has the best 2d quality.
😕 matrox > ati > nvidia

unless of course you oversaturated color. in wich case:

nvida's digital vibrance > all

also Ben, if by "when really pushed" you mean uping the resolution, your issue might be a bad monitor cable, just having the monitor cable too close to power cables or maybe a bad dvi-vga adapter. if you are using the dvi-vga adapter, try pluging your monitor into the vga port on your card instead.
 
This is a perfect example of when somebody has brand loyalty, they should stick to that brand. Seems that nothing else will make them happy.
 
AGP automatically takes the primary display role so you'll probably have a great deal of difficulty getting the PCI card to be the primary display device. PCI by its nature becomes the secondary device unless there is no AGP card installed in the system.

I'm thinking about picking up either a Matrox boar
But Matrox doesn't have digital vibrance either.

Colors are just too washed out to be acceptable, not to mention when really pushed the 2D quality falls off too far.
So you're saying that when you increase the resolution your 2D looks better on your nVidia card than it does on your ATi card? If so you've either got a defective ATi card or there's some issue with your setup.
 
I dont like oversaturated colors either. I do too much photo editing and DV movie work for that. I need the screen to look as close to real as possible. Some digital cameras (Kodak) have the same issue. They oversaturate the image which does give it more "pop", but is not as true as a Canon which has more muted color, but is more accurate.

As far as 2D goes, I run a flat panel with DVI. I only really run the native 1280 x 1024 res, and it's razor sharp. I haven't really tried a high res CRT with it.
 
What drivers are you using?

4.2s currently, also have run the 3.4s and the 4.1s with the same result.

You can just add a PCI card and switch the primary/secondary in the drivers while in windows. I'm suprised its that poor to go to those lengths, as thats not my experience. Your card is new enough, maybe make an exchange?

In terms of clarity the board is razor sharp up to 1280x1024@100Hz or 1600x1200@75Hz, it starts to fall off slightly @1600x1200@85Hz and by the time its to 2048x1536@85Hz it is extremely poor. For swapping display adapters, does that option appear in device manager if you have multiple displays?

unless of course you oversaturated color.

You ever use good calibration tools? They come with a set of images printed out that you hold next to the monitor to adjust the color, this isn't about oversaturation this is about having the proper amount of color. For nV boards I had DV set to less then 1/8th of the way up, that's what it took to calibrate it properly. Color bleeding is even worse then undersaturated colors for me, that would have me already pulling the board out.

This is a perfect example of when somebody has brand loyalty

I've never had brand loyalty when it comes to vid cards, that's a myth that people who don't like the truth tell themselves. The last nVidia board I bought was a GeForce2Pro, in the last year I bought two ATi boards. At this moment I'm leaning towards Matrox as I already explicitly stated. This is mainly about 2D quality and I spent enough on my monitor that I want the best, I don't care who it is that offers it.

BFG

AGP automatically takes the primary display role so you'll probably have a great deal of difficulty getting the PCI card to be the primary display device.

Every mobo I've had since the SS7 days has had primary display selectable in the BIOS(AGP or PCI).

But Matrox doesn't have digital vibrance either.

They allow you to adjust color, that's all that's needed to calibrate a board properly. DV actually is less then optimal for proper calibration as the drivers that support it don't allow full control over each color channel, but it is a lot better then no control at all. I'm not even sure if Matrox will be good enough to push the monitor at the highest setting, but it handles 16x12@85Hz better then ATi so at least it would be a step in the right direction.

So you're saying that when you increase the resolution your 2D looks better on your nVidia card than it does on your ATi card? If so you've either got a defective ATi card or there's some issue with your setup.

Looks better on my Gainward board but it has always been better then any ATi part I've seen for 2D(if I picked one up it would likely be an old Gainward or a 5200). On my BFG when pushed it has the same issues with higher resolutions, slightly better @16x12 85Hz but as bad @20x15, but it doesn't have issues with color. Still would rather go Matrox as I stated, but at least with nV I'd have some control over color.

oldfart

I dont like oversaturated colors either. I do too much photo editing and DV movie work for that. I need the screen to look as close to real as possible. Some digital cameras (Kodak) have the same issue. They oversaturate the image which does give it more "pop", but is not as true as a Canon which has more muted color, but is more accurate.

It's not oversaturation I'm looking for, it's accurate color levels. Color bleeding has always been a pet peeve of mine- and for the record I also prefer Canon digital cameras to Kodak's 🙂 If I use my Canon's OSD to view pictures versus the monitor it looks like the photo has been sitting under direct sunlight for a few weeks on the monitor.

As far as 2D goes, I run a flat panel with DVI. I only really run the native 1280 x 1024 res, and it's razor sharp. I haven't really tried a high res CRT with it.

With DVI you don't have to worry about color calibration nearly as much as you do with a CRT though(obviously), and 1280x1024 the board is razor sharp up to 100Hz.
 
I agree that the LCD/DVI combo seems to do a great job getting colors "right" without a lot of fussing. The NEC/Mitsu has a few built in profiles that can be used, or you can tweak to a custom setting. If I look at a pic on my kids PC (GF3 Ti200 with a crappy old 15" Dell Trinitron), the colors are nowhere near as good.
 
For swapping display adapters, does that option appear in device manager if you have multiple displays?
Yes, you should be able it in the advanced display properties below the monitors, there is a little radio button.
Looks better on my Gainward board but it has always been better then any ATi part I've seen for 2D
My Gainward(ti4200 64MB) has pretty good 2D quality, but it's not as good as my Radeon cards at 1600x1200@85 and over. I have them both connected into my 22" monitor as I've been working on the GF4 rig the last couple days. I'm not as familiar with the Nvidia drivers so maybe there are some settings I could tweak, but I can see a definate difference, the Radeon card is definately sharper at resolutions above 1280x960. They are both on the same NForce2 ASUS platforms with the latest Cats and Forceware into the same Mitsu monitor.
It's not oversaturation I'm looking for, it's accurate color levels. Color bleeding has always been a pet peeve of mine- and for the record I also prefer Canon digital cameras to Kodak's If I use my Canon's OSD to view pictures versus the monitor it looks like the photo has been sitting under direct sunlight for a few weeks on the monitor.
Your Canon must be alot better than the Sony I've got, the LCD display is great for setting up shots, but is no comparison to viewing the photos on my monitor. I've taken several thousand shots with my Sony over the past year, and washed out colors I've not noticed. Maybe you want to try some color profiles, but you make it sound like the colors are so poor as to not be able to use it for any real work. That is nonsense IMHO.
 
I agree that the LCD/DVI combo seems to do a great job getting colors "right" without a lot of fussing. The NEC/Mitsu has a few built in profiles that can be used, or you can tweak to a custom setting. If I look at a pic on my kids PC (GF3 Ti200 with a crappy old 15" Dell Trinitron), the colors are nowhere near as good.

With DVI you should always get, for lack of a better word, a perfect picture. Without having to worry about any DACs anywhere it should be ready to go out of the box, although some slight tweaking may be in order if you prefer working on a different temp then what the monitor is set at. If it wasn't for the serious limitations on gaming I'd have gone with one.

rbv5-

Yes, you should be able it in the advanced display properties below the monitors, there is a little radio button.

Thanks for the tip. Now I just have to find a good deal on a G500.

My Gainward(ti4200 64MB) has pretty good 2D quality, but it's not as good as my Radeon cards at 1600x1200@85 and over.

I've never used a Gainward Ti4200, but I haven't heard much good about that particular model for some reason(a slew of defective parts IIRC, the only board from Gainward I've heard bad things about actually).

I have them both connected into my 22" monitor as I've been working on the GF4 rig the last couple days. I'm not as familiar with the Nvidia drivers so maybe there are some settings I could tweak, but I can see a definate difference, the Radeon card is definately sharper at resolutions above 1280x960. They are both on the same NForce2 ASUS platforms with the latest Cats and Forceware into the same Mitsu monitor.

You have a 22" Mitsu? What model? IIRC my monitor is pretty much the FP2070SB-BK Mitsu, but I'm not sure off the top of my head.

Your Canon must be alot better than the Sony I've got, the LCD display is great for setting up shots, but is no comparison to viewing the photos on my monitor.

Actually, the reason for the emoticon was that the viewfinder on the Canon's way oversaturate the colors on the images.

Maybe you want to try some color profiles, but you make it sound like the colors are so poor as to not be able to use it for any real work.

Which color profiles? I have a couple hundred of them at least(already have the monitors default installed), they utterly pale in comparison to being able to calibrate the board properly. It isn't unusable by any means, but it sure as hell doesn't reflect the cost of investment, not even close 🙂

BTW- I mentioned in my last post the last nV board I bought was the GF2Pro450 but I didn't actually pay for that either. I was building a rig for a friend of my sister's and traded him my GeForce DDR and some RAM for the board(he gave me the money for the parts I was ordering for him off of NewEgg). The last time I spent my own money on a nVidia graphics card was in January of 2000, $319 for a Hercules GeForce DDR/DVI. In the last year I've spent $500($200 for a R9500Pro and $300 for a R9800Pro) on ATi graphics cards and am currently planning on picking up a Matrox board to deal with the 2D issue. Big difference on this board- the nVidiots don't argue with me here(when I lament nVidia for their screw ups), I don't think they want me pissed off at them too along with all the rest of you guys 😉 😛
 
Every mobo I've had since the SS7 days has had primary display selectable in the BIOS(AGP or PCI).
It's not really selecting the primary adapter, it's simply telling the system which one to boot from. The primary display adapter inside Windows (and ergo the one that games automatically run from) are a whole different ball game. At best you'll have to constantly swap the two adapters around in the display control panel everytime you start and finish playing a game. At worst the games won't run at all on the Radeon.

They allow you to adjust color, that's all that's needed to calibrate a board properly.
ATi allows you adjust the colour too. Again, complaining that you don't have digital vibrance and then stating you'd be interested in a Matrox card is rather bizarre logic.

Looks better on my Gainward board but it has always been better then any ATi part I've seen for 2D(if I picked one up it would likely be an old Gainward or a 5200).
My Gainward Ti4600 was good but still inferior to my 9700 Pro, even at 1600 x 1200 @ 85 Hz.
 
At best you'll have to constantly swap the two adapters around in the display control panel everytime you start and finish playing a game. At worst the games won't run at all on the Radeon.

Swapping them around in the control panel is a slight pain, but it's worth it if I can get better IQ. The games working or not is why I started this thread, I'm interested if it will work.

ATi allows you adjust the colour too.

Gamma, brightness and contrast- not the actual color setting.

Again, complaining that you don't have digital vibrance and then stating you'd be interested in a Matrox card is rather bizarre logic.

Matrox allows for full calibration in their drivers, and they actually do have something comparable to Digital Vibrance(forget what it is called, was checking their site earlier today).
 
I've never used a Gainward Ti4200, but I haven't heard much good about that particular model for some reason(a slew of defective parts IIRC, the only board from Gainward I've heard bad things about actually)
They had bad Caps, I have a revised model that I have no complaints with, it has been quite a deal since I picked it up a few months back as a refurb for my budget gamer. It does have what I would call very good 2D image quality.
You have a 22" Mitsu? What model?
Its a 2020u that I got used actually. It doesn't quite have the specs as the model you're getting, but compares with our 2060u's at work. It says alot about the quality of the Mitsu monitors.

I used to use a secondary V3 2000 PCI card with my older AIW (so I could use it for a hacked "theater mode") quite some time ago. It actually had a bit better 2D than the Radeon up to 1600x1200, and I would use it for web browsing set as the secondary card while using the Radeon to play DVD's out to the TV, and it worked fine. I could switch between cards in display properties without issues.

There is definately no comparable feature to DV with the Radeon cards (AFAIK, no third party utility either), I'm used to the Radeon's color reproduction and IMHO, the colors look more "true" to me. When I'm using my nvidia card rig, I do have DV enabled, but it impares a somewhat oversaturated look, its especially apparent when watching video..its more akin to the "tourch mode" you see in the big video stores (Red push) to sell the displays. If you are used to it, you like it...but I actually prefer the Radeon output. To me, it doesn't look washed out, it just looks "right". In games however, I do like the DV somewhat more(than video). Games don't look realistic to me anyway, so the oversaturation does give it a bit more of a bold look, it seems to pop a bit more. I can't see any reason why a compareable feature can't be enabled in the Radeon drivers. More control over your cards output couldn't be a bad thing.
 
When I'm using my nvidia card rig, I do have DV enabled, but it impares a somewhat oversaturated look, its especially apparent when watching video..its more akin to the "tourch mode" you see in the big video stores (Red push) to sell the displays.

Which driver version are you using? Depending on that, DV either has a small handful of adjustments, or an enormous selection. IIRC most of the 4x.xx Dets had four settings you could use, and even the lowest setting was a bit too overdone for me, but overall I took it over the default. The newer Dets(ForceWare) allow you to fine tune it to your liking, hundreds of possible slider positions. For the displays in stores- the thing that bugs me even more then their off kilter contrast/tint is the brightness settings they use. Black looks like mid gray on some of them it's so bad. First thing I do when I calibrate the monitor is make sure when it's showing a black image the display looks like it's off, then positioning, then color, then finer contrast/brightness/gamma tweaks, then back to color to fine tune.

Its a 2020u that I got used actually. It doesn't quite have the specs as the model you're getting, but compares with our 2060u's at work. It says alot about the quality of the Mitsu monitors.

Did you get a good deal on it? I've had very good luck with NEC/Mitsu monitors, both in terms of durability and what you get versus what you pay. Looked at a comparable Sony and it was ~tripple the price, I would have still picked up the FP2141SB if they had been the same price.

I used to use a secondary V3 2000 PCI card with my older AIW (so I could use it for a hacked "theater mode") quite some time ago. It actually had a bit better 2D than the Radeon up to 1600x1200, and I would use it for web browsing set as the secondary card while using the Radeon to play DVD's out to the TV, and it worked fine. I could switch between cards in display properties without issues.

Does your monitor have the SuperBright feature? I thought it was more of a gimmick when I was checking out the specs, but man playing the HD-DVD version of T2 with SuperBright mode 2 on this thing is sooooo sweet 😀

I use SB mode 1 for games which makes the monitor quite a bit brighter(but maintains a true black), a little more punch in the color would have it perfect but that is really splitting hairs. On the desktop for text it's a bit too bright(SB mode2 is way too bright), makes focusing on text difficult.

I can't see any reason why a compareable feature can't be enabled in the Radeon drivers. More control over your cards output couldn't be a bad thing.

I don't get what it is that is stopping them from at least putting the color option back in the driver panel. It was there for older ATi parts, nV pulled it when they added DV, I have no idea why ATi pulled theirs. Matrox still has color controls and their feature that is comparable to DV at the same time(the ideal setup).
 
Which driver version are you using? Depending on that, DV either has a small handful of adjustments, or an enormous selection
I'm using the latest Forceware, and it has an enormous selection, in fact the Forceware drivers are incredibly feature packed for adjusting the cards. I haven't spent a whole lot of time playing around with it. I did try to drive my RPTV with it, but couldn't get it to sync at 1080i so I gave up and am looking over AVSforum for a guide for custom timings. I'm going to get serious about setting it up here soon. I'm looking forward to the full Forceware Suite going forward as it will support both the ATI and Nividia cards for at least some of the features.
Did you get a good deal on it? I've had very good luck with NEC/Mitsu monitors, both in terms of durability and what you get versus what you pay.
Yea, I got it for a great deal a couple years ago from a member here, and its still going strong.
Does your monitor have the SuperBright feature? I thought it was more of a gimmick when I was checking out the specs, but man playing the HD-DVD version of T2 with SuperBright mode 2 on this thing is sooooo sweet
No SB feature unfortunately. Other than the funky DRM solution, the HD T2 is great, HD WMV is very impressive IMHO. Makes the HTPC that much better.
 
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