Why would Texans vote for a 60M school stadium?

[Hugo Drax]

http://www.dallasnews.com/news/metr...um-deemed-not-safe-will-close-this-season.ece

Thats insane. Spend 60M on a football stadium for a school,not built to code and will have to be torn down.


This is the kind of stuff you hear about happening in North Korea.

 

[Gooberlx2]

Isn't highschool football like a religion in Texas?

Seems clear to me that the architects and/or contractors ought to be on the hook for the bill if it's their screw up, but of course no one wants to pony up the millions for repairs or admit liability.

 

[Hugo Drax]

Isn't highschool football like a religion in Texas?

That said, the architects and/or contractors ought to be on the hook for the bill if it's their screw up.

I doubt it, they are probably politically connected.

 

[poofyhairguy]

The good ole boy system is alive and well.

 

[BoomerD]

Damned gubmint interference in enforcing building codes...

Oh wait...this is Texas...a state notorious for failing to enforce said building codes.

Carry on, y'all.

 

[Wreckem]

http://www.dallasnews.com/news/metr...um-deemed-not-safe-will-close-this-season.ece

Thats insane. Spend 60M on a football stadium for a school,not built to code and will have to be torn down.


This is the kind of stuff you hear about happening in North Korea.

Well for one thing it was included in an all or nothing $119million bond package. A common tactic.

It passed with 63% of the vote, but the voter turnout was incredibly low. IE: The 2009 bond election was 2363 yays to 1349 nays. The 2008 bond election was 20885 yays to 7488 nays.

That said Allen actually decent when it comes to bond debt. They have ~half the enrollment of Frisco ISD but have less than a quarter of the bond debt.

As for faulty work. Allen ISD won't be eating the cost for repair or replacement. Why? Both the architecture firm and the construction firm are going to be on the hook as it appears both the design and construction work were defective. I would hate to be the insurers to the two firms. But its going to likely take years for this to happen as its inevitable the firms are going to fight tooth and nail even though they are CLEARLY at fault for the defective product. In the meantime karma rears its ugly head in the form of an empty husk of a $60million stadium.

 

[Newell Steamer]

Spend 60M on a football stadium for a school,not built to code and will have to be torn down.

Exploding fertilizer plants.

Dumping toxic chemicals onto roads.

And now, death trap football stadiums.

Are you sure a no regulation stance is a good idea? Or, does Rick Perry have to choke on tainted tubesteak in order for people to wake up?

 

[twinrider1]

Two issues, having a stadium that expensive. And having it shoddily built.

I have no problem with the expense. That district is incredibly wealthy. They treat their performing arts students just as well as their athletes.

Poorly built.....I bet there are some high power lawyers with kids that go there. The throw down between the district, architectural firm, and the builder will be interesting.

 

[Markbnj]

But its for the children!

 

[preslove]

I've never lived in a state full of so many straight up morons. Those small towns are the stupidity is most concentrated.

Well for one thing it was included in an all or nothing $119million bond package. A common tactic.

It passed with 63% of the vote, but the voter turnout was incredibly low.

That said they may have spent $60million on a stadium, but they have half the enrollment of Frisco ISD and ~1/4 of the bond debt.

As for faulty work. Allen ISD won't be eating the cost for repair or replacement. Why? Both the architecture firm and the construction firm are going to be on the hook as it appears both the design and construction work were defective.

Uh... replacing a $60 million stadium is the kind of thing that forces construction companies into bankruptcy. This doesn't sound like something that can be fixed. Hopefully, those idiots running the school board can get some money back...

 

[Wreckem]

Two issues, having a stadium that expensive. And having it shoddily built.

I have no problem with the expense. That district is incredibly wealthy. They treat their performing arts students just as well as their athletes.

Poorly built.....I bet there are some high power lawyers with kids that go there. The throw down between the district, architectural firm, and the builder will be interesting.

This is the benefit of having a 1 high-school policy. Instead of having multiple high schools with separate facilities, you pool all the money and have one grand venue.

 

[MrPickins]

I have no problem with the expense. That district is incredibly wealthy. They treat their performing arts students just as well as their athletes.

This.

Allen ISD is in a wealthy area of the DFW Metroplex.

Besides, cities pay for professional sports stadiums all the time. I see no difference here.


The shoddiness of construction, however....

 

[Wreckem]

I've never lived in a state full of so many straight up morons. Those small towns are the stupidity is most concentrated.



Uh... replacing a $60 million stadium is the kind of thing that forces construction companies into bankruptcy. This doesn't sound like something that can be fixed. Hopefully, those idiots running the school board can get some money back...

Its called insurance. No doubt the concrete subcontractor(which Pogue will not name publicly) is done for. That said Pogue and PBK are large companies with lots of assets and revenue. PBK and Pogue(along with its subcontractors) are all pointing fingers at each other. The final report is likely to find fault with both Pogue's construction and PBK's design. These two firms are responsible for a large number of new school facilities in Texas.

 

[preslove]

I saw in the comments someone said that Allen highschool didn't meet "AYP," or Annual Yearly Progress. I confirmed on the texas education agency's website

http://ritter.tea.state.tx.us/ayp/2012/distcampfinal12.pdf
ALLEN H S 001 MISSED AYP MATHEMATICS (PERFORMANCE)

Fucking idiots.

 

[Wreckem]

I saw in the comments someone said that Allen highschool didn't meet "AYP," or Annual Yearly Progress. I confirmed on the texas education agency's website

http://ritter.tea.state.tx.us/ayp/2012/distcampfinal12.pdf
ALLEN H S 001 MISSED AYP MATHEMATICS (PERFORMANCE)

Fucking idiots.

Its actually adequate yearly progress and its a metric of NCLB. NCLB needs repealled.

And those are the last AYP numbers for Texas because Texas has a NCLB waiver. Allen HS met all state standards for 2013.

Allen HS is ranked 23 in the DFW metro area for average SAT scores. So its actually one of the better schools, but far from the best(HP, Carroll, Plano West, Coppel, Plano Sr, FloMo HS).

 

[preslove]

Its actually adequate yearly progress and its a metric of NCLB. NCLB needs repealled.

And those are the last AYP numbers for Texas because Texas has a NCLB waiver. Allen HS met all state standards for 2013.

Meeting Texas education standards is not an accomplishment...

 

[Wreckem]

Meeting Texas education standards is not an accomplishment...

Allen ISD, just like Frisco ISD, is under performing for the $$$ they have but there is no way they can be considered bad schools.

And AYP is and has always been a terrible metric. I don't think you even know what AYP actually is and why its useless in determining if a school is good or not. Here is a hint. The data is broken down into subgroups, if one of said subgroups, such as African Americans, Hispanics, ESL, and Socioeconomically disadvantaged, fail to meet AYP individually, the school as a whole misses AYP even if the school as a whole mets/exceeds AYP. This is exactly what happened with Allen High School. A subgroup misses the mark taking the whole ship down with it, even though the school itself would have otherwise met standards.

And if the point you were trying to make is they didn't meet standards, so they should have spent the $60million on academics. Well, they couldn't. In Texas bond money like this is limited to capital improvement/projects.

 

[Thebobo]

Wow look at all those cracks

http://www.scribd.com/fullscreen/225272092?access_key=key-Vx5vXrel9LdzLCFAWPYd&allow_share=true&escape=false&view_mode=scroll

 

[preslove]

Allen ISD, just like Frisco ISD, is under performing for the $$$ they have but there is no way they can be considered bad schools.

And AYP is and has always been a terrible metric. I don't think you even know what AYP actually is and why its useless in determining if a school is good or not. Here is a hint. The data is broken down into subgroups, if one of said subgroups, such as African Americans, Hispanics, ESL, and Socioeconomically disadvantaged, fail to meet AYP individually, the school as a whole misses AYP even if the school as a whole mets/exceeds AYP. This is exactly what happened with Allen High School. A subgroup misses the mark taking the whole ship down with it, even though the school itself would have otherwise met standards.

And if the point you were trying to make is they didn't meet standards, so they should have spent the $60million on academics. Well, they couldn't. In Texas bond money like this is limited to capital improvement/projects.

Uh... the taxes raised to pay off the bond money could have just been raised to pay for academics.

Or, the $60 million could have been spent on facilities for public use, like parks, soccer fields, bike paths, (you know, to combat the Texas obesity epidemic) instead of a stadium that would host less than 10 games a year and have a recurring cost for ~$250,000 for operations.

There is no stupider use for civic funds than sports stadiums.

 

[JM Aggie08]

ITT: Hurr durr dumb Texas.

 

[Ruptga]

In for the Texas bashing.

Texas truly is a wretched hive of idiocy and corruption.

 

[Wreckem]

Uh... the taxes raised to pay off the bond money could have just been raised to pay for academics. Or, the $60 million could have been spent on facilities for public use, like parks, soccer fields, bike paths, (you know, to combat the Texas obesity epidemic) instead of a stadium that would host less than 10 games a year and have a recurring cost for ~$250,000 for operations.

There is no stupider use for civic funds than sports stadiums.

1. No. Not how it works in Texas.
2. It was an ISD not a city that raised taxes. So no, again, thats not how it works.
3. Between Varsity, JV and Freshmen, there are ~18 home games. The stadium was also going to host other events(and other sports) as well.
4. I think you are underestimating the expenses and revenue as well. A single varsity home game at capacity had gate revenue over $100k.

Compare that to their $30million performing arts center(posted above), and well, the football stadium was the more sound economic decision(had it not had problems).

With $490million in bond debt, Allen is actually better off than a lot of comparable districts. Their stadium, performing arts center, and new district service center were funded by a $.07 increase to property taxes. Their tax base supports it. Good for them.

You want to see taj mahal facilities. Look at Prosper ISD(not that far from Allen) and its $114million high school for a town with the population of ~12,000 and a HS enrollment of ~1200. They say they are planning for future growth. The HS is at half capacity and they plan on building 4-5 more highschools in the future(to keep up with growth). Are all future high schools going to be like Prosper HS? And yes Prosper HS is the most expensive HS ever to be built in Texas, and its not a massive school like FloMo HS, Plano West, Plano Sr, Allen, or any of the other 4000+ enrollment schools. Did I mention Prosper ISD has more debt than Allen ISD? Colin County, home to massive bond debt. Frisco, Prosper, and McKinney are all doing worse in terms of Bond Debt than Allen ISD. But Allen ISD gets all of the flack because of the football stadium(that would have generated revenues unlike Prosper's taj mahal HS). The thing is though, all of the afformentioned cities/towns have the financial means and public support to support that debt. So again, good for them

And for the record, Katy ISD(near Houston) voted down a $70million 14,000 seat stadium last November. It was voted down even though it wouldn't have raised taxes.

 

[shortylickens]

In for the Texas bashing.

Texas truly is a wretched hive of idiocy and corruption.

No more than any other state in the Union.

Except maybe Alaska.

 

[The Boston Dangler]

LESS BIG BAD GOVERNMENT INTERFERENCE!
LET THE INDUSTRY REGULATE ITSELF!

all capital letters!

 

[Ruptga]

No more than any other state in the Union.

Except maybe Alaska.

I've never lived in Alaska, but I have lived in Texas. It's true that a lot of their problems are common elsewhere, but Texas likes to turn its vices up to eleven while putting them on pedestals as virtues.