Why would I even consider buying an ipad, ipod or iphone?

[accguy9009]

With the hellish working conditions at Foxconn's Shenzen plant that builds Apple's iPads, iPods, and iPhones why would I give Apple or Foxconn even a penny of my $? I wonder if the politically correct crowd would be so quick to buy little Jonny or lil Sally a new mac either if they knew about the horrible working conditions that Apples vendors provide?

I do and refuse to support Apple with any of my $. Apple has huge margins on much of its hardware, is sitting on a virtual mountain of cash and its stock values are at record highs. Now maybe we know why.

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=18428

Locked per multiple poster requests.

Perknose
Forum Director

 

[TheWart]

The sad thing is that as the undercover journalist pointed out, the conditions at the foxcon factory are considered pretty good vis-a-vis most other electronics manufacturers.

Also, you might have to expand your boycott list:

Among other things, Foxconn produces the Mac mini, the iPod, the iPad, and the iPhone for Apple Inc.; Intel-branded motherboards for Intel Corp.; various orders for American computer manufacturers Dell and Hewlett-Packard; motherboards for UK computer manufacturer Zoostorm; the PlayStation 2 and PlayStation 3 for Sony; the Wii for Nintendo; the Xbox 360 for Microsoft, cell phones for Motorola, the Amazon Kindle, and Cisco equipment.

 

[mmntech]

In all fairness to Apple, they have been trying to address the problem. Their own investigations brought a lot of these problems to light. Also. Foxconn isn't a subcontractor for just Apple. They make motherboards for many cell phones, the PS3, and the XBOX 360 IIRC.

Still, it doesn't make it right. Apple really should be looking for a new subcontractor.

 

[Ka0t1x]

I'm pretty sure this applies to most tech gadgetry shops. Foxconn's factories aren't the only ones that have strict standards and bad working conditions. The people that sign onto these jobs sign a waiver to work those conditions.

Also yes, these are factories owned by Foxconn, I don't think Apple has a whole lot to do with the work conditions at a sub-contracted factory.

.. Similar conditions can be found in most industries. Been to an overworked call center before?

 

[ChAoTiCpInOy]

Yeah, just because most of the news say it's Apple's factories. It really isn't. Apple I think is one of the few companies that have brought these issues to light and are actively trying to better the conditions that factory workers work under. So you should look at that.

And it's not like Apple can do a lot about it. Most companies subcontract to manufacturers in China.

 

[rdp6]

This was covered on slashdot recently. Someone posted per capita suicide rates China-wide vs. at the Foxconn factory. Foxconn employee population's suicide rate is about half that of China.

Why don't you take a look at suicides in the US armed forces and tell us what you think of that?

 

[accguy9009]

Yeah, just because most of the news say it's Apple's factories. It really isn't. Apple I think is one of the few companies that have brought these issues to light and are actively trying to better the conditions that factory workers work under. So you should look at that.

And it's not like Apple can do a lot about it. Most companies subcontract to manufacturers in China.

I disagree. Sure it is factory owned by Foxconn but Apple is still responsible for its contractors and its contractors subcontractors. If I hire a contractor to put an addition on my home and she( the contractor) hires a contractor who does shoddy work or uses inappropriate material or uses undocumented laborers and I get a citation for said violations my first recourse is with the contractor I selected and hired. Apple should have asked Foxconn about the labor conditions before signing the contract. That is called exercising your due diligence. Apple failed to do so and should be help accountable. You don't get to say later you had no idea and expect a pass. Apple only responded to these issues after it was made public. They could stop it tomorrow if they agreed to pay Foxconn more $ to build the products in such a manner that provided more humane working conditions.

 

[TheWart]

I disagree. Sure it is factory owned by Foxconn but Apple is still responsible for its contractors and its contractors subcontractors. If I hire a contractor to put an addition on my home and she( the contractor) hires a contractor who does shoddy work or uses inappropriate material or uses undocumented laborers and I get a citation for said violations my first recourse is with the contractor I selected and hired. Apple should have asked Foxconn about the labor conditions before signing the contract. That is called exercising your due diligence. Apple failed to do so and should be help accountable. You don't get to say later you had no idea and expect a pass. Apple only responded to these issues after it was made public. They could stop it tomorrow if they agreed to pay Foxconn more $ to build the products in such a manner that provided more humane working conditions.

And given that Foxconn is one of the largest manufacturers in Asia (~500,000 employees), and makes products for the likes of Intel and MS, you still think it is up to Apple?

Do you have any idea how the conditions at Foxconn are relative to other factories? You think HTC's phones are made in a facility where they give out free massages a la Google? This is par for the course for tech manufacturing, and the people that think this is an 'apple problem' are hilarious. Meanwhile they clutch their Samsung phone while watching a Sony TV.....like those were made under awesome conditions....

 

[aphex]

I disagree. Sure it is factory owned by Foxconn but Apple is still responsible for its contractors and its contractors subcontractors. If I hire a contractor to put an addition on my home and she( the contractor) hires a contractor who does shoddy work or uses inappropriate material or uses undocumented laborers and I get a citation for said violations my first recourse is with the contractor I selected and hired. Apple should have asked Foxconn about the labor conditions before signing the contract. That is called exercising your due diligence. Apple failed to do so and should be help accountable. You don't get to say later you had no idea and expect a pass. Apple only responded to these issues after it was made public. They could stop it tomorrow if they agreed to pay Foxconn more $ to build the products in such a manner that provided more humane working conditions.

But why are you not holding the other companies that use foxconn (intel, msft, etc..) as accountable?

 

[TheWart]

As I suspected, a quick browse through this guy's post history indicates he likes to trawl (one step removed from trolling lol) apple threads trying to instigate problems.

From a thread on the macbook ding:

Get a new one ASAP as it is no longer kewl.

From the thread on whether one can swap macbook hd's:

Not without written authorization from Apple

In a thread in which he tried-and failed-to argue with TheStu:

You continue to confirm that you have positioned yourself to be the Poster Boy for "Apple can do no wrong". Rather than at least acknowledge that it was
wrong for Apple to tell customers that on site service was not included as part of the Apple Care coverage for the Mac Pro and the IMAC, you continue to bang the drum that I must be a "d_ck" because I don't pay homage to Apple's outstanding customer service even when the service I receive is extremely poor. I firmly believe that if the great Apple Customer Service van in the sky rolled up on you and one of the Apple Tech's spit in your face you would scream "thank you sir, may I have another" then try to spin why Apple was correct in doing so.

Basically this guy hates Apple for whatever reason and likes to brandish that at every chance possible. Someone like that on AT??? consider me shocked lol

 

[accguy9009]

And given that Foxconn is one of the largest manufacturers in Asia (~500,000 employees), and makes products for the likes of Intel and MS, you still think it is up to Apple?

Do you have any idea how the conditions at Foxconn are relative to other factories? You think HTC's phones are made in a facility where they give out free massages a la Google? This is par for the course for tech manufacturing, and the people that think this is an 'apple problem' are hilarious. Meanwhile they clutch their Samsung phone while watching a Sony TV.....like those were made under awesome conditions....

So your rationale is that because other organizations are allegedly guilty of human rights violations in the work place it is acceptable for Apple to hire contractors to do likewise? Is that really your stance? Not every company hires contractors who operate in this manner. Just because others do does not make it proper for Apple to do so. So it is acceptable, according to your rationale, for someone to commit a crime and not be held accountable because others do so with equal or more frequency?

IMO, you are either part of the solution or you are part of the problem. I doubt the families of the workers who committed suicide can take any solace in the fact that these atrocities have happened elsewhere. You Apple apologists really have little or no conscience do you?

 

[TheWart]

So your rationale is that because other organizations are allegedly guilty of human rights violations in the work place it is acceptable for Apple to hire contractors to do likewise? Is that really your stance? Not every company hires contractors who operate in this manner. Just because others do does not make it proper for Apple to do so. So it is acceptable, according to your rationale, for someone to commit a crime and not be held accountable because others do so with equal or more frequency?

IMO, you are either part of the solution or you are part of the problem. I doubt the families of the workers who committed suicide can take any solace in the fact that these atrocities have happened elsewhere. You Apple apologists really have little or no conscience do you?

No my point was twofold: First, why make this some sort of Apple 'callout' thread if HP, Intel, MS, etc etc are just as guilty?

Secondly, all we have so far is that there have been suicides at the factory. Well, if others have pointed out, the suicide rate is lower/equal to the rest of China, then what to make of that? Are the long hours, cramped living conditions, etc, worse than required standards? Are they the same as every other factory? Are they better? Those are questions that need to be answered.

But don't let rationality get in the way of your apple bashing.

 

[accguy9009]

No my point was twofold: First, why make this some sort of Apple 'callout' thread if HP, Intel, MS, etc etc are just as guilty?

Secondly, all we have so far is that there have been suicides at the factory. Well, if others have pointed out, the suicide rate is lower/equal to the rest of China, then what to make of that? Are the long hours, cramped living conditions, etc, worse than required standards? Are they the same as every other factory? Are they better? Those are questions that need to be answered.

But don't let rationality get in the way of your apple bashing.

Actually we have a bit more,

"Apple's Supplier Beats Reporter For Breaking Veil of Secrecy"

http://www.dailytech.com/Apples+Sup...For+Breaking+Veil+of+Secrecy/article17729.htm

Apparently a reporter who went undercover at the factory received a beating, allegedly.

This thread was created in response to the news stories that were printed on Daily Tech about conditions at the Foxconn plant where the hot idevices are manufactured. Please stay on point. If you would like to create your own thread regarding the allegations
you have made about others please feel free to do so in the appropriate section of the forums.

 

[Pliablemoose]

Are you really so stupid as to think Apple is the only company guilty of this?

I don't know where the hell you shop, but I'd hazard a guess whatever your using to access the internet now, from your keyboard to the ISP's servers were made at nearly identical plants.

For that matter the clothes you're wearing to a lot virtually every consumer item you're using are made in similar plants.

Hell, I've heard they even kill cattle to make your hamburgers, and there's research suggesting the potatoes "scream" when they're harvested.

I'm not saying that it's right, I'm saying that's the way it is right now, and if you don't like it, yor cost of living is going to go up dramatically.

I know a lot of Chinese, and they say the workers in those plants are pretty damn happy to have the jobs they have.

 

[accguy9009]

Are you really so stupid as to think Apple is the only company guilty of this?

I don't know where the hell you shop, but I'd hazard a guess whatever your using to access the internet now, from your keyboard to the ISP's servers were made at nearly identical plants.

For that matter the clothes you're wearing to a lot virtually every consumer item you're using are made in similar plants.

Hell, I've heard they even kill cattle to make your hamburgers, and there's research suggesting the potatoes "scream" when they're harvested.

I'm not saying that it's right, I'm saying that's the way it is right now, and if you don't like it, yor cost of living is going to go up dramatically.

I know a lot of Chinese, and they say the workers in those plants are pretty damn happy to have the jobs they have.

So because others allegedly are guilty of the same infractions Apple deserves a pass? Is that your point?

 

[Nothinman]

This thread was created in response to the news stories that were printed on Daily Tech about conditions at the Foxconn plant where the hot idevices are manufactured. Please stay on point. If you would like to create your own thread regarding the allegations you have made about others please feel free to do so in the appropriate section of the forums.

I think the key point is that it's "Foxconn plant", not the Apple plant. The conditions of the plant are Foxconn's responsibility, not Apple's.

 

[Kmax82]

I think the key point is that it's "Foxconn plant", not the Apple plant. The conditions of the plant are Foxconn's responsibility, not Apple's.

Not only that, but Apple published the report, last I read, that exposed most of the poor conditions. They are working toward fixing it, or at least exposing it.

accguy9009, you're naive to think that it's ok to bash Apple for this, but not others. I would be more forgiving of your thread if you had outed all the parties involved, rather than do a dump on Apple, because of your obvious hatred of the company.

And just so we're clear, even though I think it's been pretty darn clear so far...

No one is saying that the conditions at Foxconn are ok, and should be forgiven because MS, HP, Dell and Intel also use the plant.

 

[accguy9009]

Not only that, but Apple published the report, last I read, that exposed most of the poor conditions. They are working toward fixing it, or at least exposing it.

accguy9009, you're naive to think that it's ok to bash Apple for this, but not others. I would be more forgiving of your thread if you had outed all the parties involved, rather than do a dump on Apple, because of your obvious hatred of the company.

And just so we're clear, even though I think it's been pretty darn clear so far...

No one is saying that the conditions at Foxconn are ok, and should be forgiven because MS, HP, Dell and Intel also use the plant.

KMAX, can you show some documentation regarding Apple "publishing" a report about conditions at the plant? Was it done after it had been exposed & reported elsewhere? Has Apple done anything substantive to improve conditions at the plant? IMO all who have products mfg at
this plant are equally culpable. I am surprised that so few here would concur that Apple
could help more than they have as far as affecting change at this plant. That Apple could do and should do, IMHO. that is the main reason I am "calling Apple out". Apple controls everything that pertains to their business done to the smallest minutiae. They need to do more. The fact that others also need to do the same does not alleviate Apple of this responsibility

 

[zylander]

How exactly is this Apples problem? Apple contracts Foxconn to build parts for them, how is Apple responsible for how the Foxconn workers are treated?

 

[accguy9009]

How exactly is this Apples problem? Apple contracts Foxconn to build parts for them, how is Apple responsible for how the Foxconn workers are treated?

A business is responsible for its contractors, as I have stated earlier in this thread. Apple was certainly in a position prior to contracting assembly of its products, who they contracted and how implementation would be handled, where they not? Can't you ask during negotiations, will you be running a sweatshop with inhumane working conditions? Apple could have asked and demanded working conditions be handled in a more humane environment. They chose not too, along with other OEMs. That fact is not debatable. Does Nike or other shoe or textile co's not have the opportunity and obligation, prior to signing a contract, and have the ability to ask these very valid questions of its vendors and contractors? No one put a gun at Apples head, or anyone else, who used this facility. They did what they did and now should be held accountable.

 

[aphex]

OP, its been pointed out to you multiple times in this thread that the issue is with Foxconn, who manufact manufactures products for Apple, Intel, Microsoft and others.

Your inability to comprehend and recognize this simple fact and only blame Apple for this issue (along with your prior posts) shows you for the Troll that you are. Do us all a favor and stay out of the forum unless you have anything productive to post.

 

[accguy9009]

OP, its been pointed out to you multiple times in this thread that the issue is with Foxconn, who manufact manufactures products for Apple, Intel, Microsoft and others.

Your inability to comprehend and recognize this simple fact and only blame Apple for this issue (along with your prior posts) shows you for the Troll that you are. Do us all a favor and stay out of the forum unless you have anything productive to post.

I respect your opinion and I respect your mod status. I happen to feel, as I have stated earlier, that MFGS have a fiduciary responsibility, and the ability, prior to selecting a MFG facility, to ask, expect and demand that proper working conditions be provided. I wish you and I could & would agree on everything but that is not realistic. You fail to mention that on a recent previous post I said I loved the ipod hardware and loved itunes for example. I happen to be an Apple reseller and have been since 1994. I also resell for among others Dell and HP. The fact that I respectfully disagree with you does not make me a troll or a bad person. I have been factual, respectful and civil to all in this thread.

Recently Oprah Winfrey was called out because of inhumane conditions at a mfg facility that made clothing for her company. She went out front and accepted responsibility for
not being aware of the workplace conditions at the mfg facility she chose ( but did not own) to make her clothing. She went on the record saying she would effect change and do the right thing. I feel Apple should do the same. Apples name is on the products built at this facility. They should have inquired, asked for and demanded during negotiations that proper working conditions be maintained. Other co's should be held to the same standard. I now have asked on several posts here that others along with Apple should be held to the same standard. Am I wrong? Should these working conditions continue without folks asking for something better? If you feel the need to lock the thread, censure me, suspend me etc, that is your choice and I respect your ability to do so. Admittedly I hate being bullied but lots of people most likely feel the same.

 

[Lyfer]

This thread fails to deliver. In other news I just saved a ton of money on child support by switching over to condoms.

 

[ChAoTiCpInOy]

I respect your opinion and I respect your mod status. I happen to feel, as I have stated earlier, that MFGS have a fiduciary responsibility, and the ability, prior to selecting a MFG facility, to ask, expect and demand that proper working conditions be provided. I wish you and I could & would agree on everything but that is not realistic. You fail to mention that on a recent previous post I said I loved the ipod hardware and loved itunes for example. I happen to be an Apple reseller and have been since 1994. I also resell for among others Dell and HP. The fact that I respectfully disagree with you does not make me a troll or a bad person. I have been factual, respectful and civil to all in this thread.

Recently Oprah Winfrey was called out because of inhumane conditions at a mfg facility that made clothing for her company. She went out front and accepted responsibility for
not being aware of the workplace conditions at the mfg facility she chose ( but did not own) to make her clothing. She went on the record saying she would effect change and do the right thing. I feel Apple should do the same. Apples name is on the products built at this facility. They should have inquired, asked for and demanded during negotiations that proper working conditions be maintained. Other co's should be held to the same standard. I now have asked on several posts here that others along with Apple should be held to the same standard. Am I wrong? Should these working conditions continue without folks asking for something better? If you feel the need to lock the thread, censure me, suspend me etc, that is your choice and I respect your ability to do so. Admittedly I hate being bullied but lots of people most likely feel the same.

http://www.apple.com/supplierresponsibility/auditing-compliance.html

Is that enough for you? Are there any other companies out there doing anything close to this?

 

[accguy9009]

Looks real pretty. Have the working conditions at the plant in question changed or improved? It seems a lot of folks want to make this about me rather than about conditions at the mfg facility. For the record I have not abused workers I merely asked a few questions. I suppose I chose the wrong forum. Unless you praise all things Apple here the hammer will come down on ya