Why Windows Genuine Authentication is Bad

[cubby1223]

It just occurred to me today cleaning up a computer with a ton of malware that was put on by accidental internet surfing. A lot of the malware screws with the Windows Update procedure through IE, rendering it useless, and there really isn't a fix out for many situations.

Gee, now how fun it will be when these programmers start really attacking the authentication components... Atleast without the authentication, I could still view and download all the updates and install them myself. Say goodbye to that.

And say goodbye to downloading / installing MS Anti-Spyware.

It's nice how MS cares so much for their paying customers.

Just my rant for the day.

 

[mechBgon]

Atleast without the authentication, I could still view and download all the updates and install them myself. Say goodbye to that.

On a practical note, download these using your system and keep them handy for the scenario you're describing: Microsoft Baseline Security Analyzer 1.2.1 and Microsoft Baseline Security Analyzer 2.0. MBSA is generally > Windows Update anyway.

MBSA 1.2.1 can scan for missing Office2000 updates, you might as well use 2.0 in other situations.

edit: incidentally, you can use your own system to pre-download MS AntiSpyware and have it handy to install on other computers, too. Last I checked, anyway.

 

[spherrod]

Originally posted by: mechBgon

Atleast without the authentication, I could still view and download all the updates and install them myself. Say goodbye to that.

On a practical note, download these using your system and keep them handy for the scenario you're describing: Microsoft Baseline Security Analyzer 1.2.1 and Microsoft Baseline Security Analyzer 2.0. MBSA is generally > Windows Update anyway.

MBSA 1.2.1 can scan for missing Office2000 updates, you might as well use 2.0 in other situations.

edit: incidentally, you can use your own system to pre-download MS AntiSpyware and have it handy to install on other computers, too. Last I checked, anyway.

yep, Anti-Spyware can be pre-downloaded. Tried it last night on a client's PC

 

[Tostada]

That's a pretty bogus argument. If you install SP2, it's going to harrass you to turn on automatic updates, and automatic updates work fine without authentication.

Besides, if your computer is so screwed up that the Windows Update site doesn't work, you're probably going to have to reinstall -- running Ad-Aware from safe mode probably isn't going to fix a screwed OS.

 

[Tostada]

If you want to complain about Microsoft, the real problem is that they've priced Windows too high so they can suck tons of cash out of businesses who buy legit copies and computer makers that pay for licenses that really aren't discounted very much. In doing so, they know they're setting their prices too high and that a huge chunk of the public will either stick with an old version or pirate the new one. They know people pirate Windows, but it's really not much of a loss to them, certainly not enough to make them want to lower the price, so it's really a pretty awkward move for them to attempt to break everyone's computer if they don't have a legit copy.

It's really just a major inconvenience to everybody. I have legit copies of XP, but I'd much rather use my university's copy that doesn't need to be registered (which I'm allowed to do, but I'm supposed to uninstall it if I'm not taking classes). I don't want to have to register XP every time I install it, and I sure as hell don't want to have to call up Microsoft and tell them every time I change any of my hardware.

I mean, the whole registration process is stupid enough that I'd still rather not use a legit key that I have to register. I'll just stick with a slipstreamed SP2 and automatic updates.

 

[Tenshodo]

Anyway theres already a "hack" around the system so if it dosnt work, hack it.

 

[SoundTheSurrender]

I find it funny that you still keep getting "malware"

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: Tostada
If you want to complain about Microsoft, the real problem is that they've priced Windows too high so they can suck tons of cash out of businesses who buy legit copies and computer makers that pay for licenses that really aren't discounted very much. In doing so, they know they're setting their prices too high and that a huge chunk of the public will either stick with an old version or pirate the new one. They know people pirate Windows, but it's really not much of a loss to them, certainly not enough to make them want to lower the price, so it's really a pretty awkward move for them to attempt to break everyone's computer if they don't have a legit copy.

It's really just a major inconvenience to everybody. I have legit copies of XP, but I'd much rather use my university's copy that doesn't need to be registered (which I'm allowed to do, but I'm supposed to uninstall it if I'm not taking classes). I don't want to have to register XP every time I install it, and I sure as hell don't want to have to call up Microsoft and tell them every time I change any of my hardware.

I mean, the whole registration process is stupid enough that I'd still rather not use a legit key that I have to register. I'll just stick with a slipstreamed SP2 and automatic updates.

You don't have to register. Registration has nothing to do wwith changing hardware.

 

[RedCOMET]

Originally posted by: Tenshodo
Anyway theres already a "hack" around the system so if it dosnt work, hack it.

I could have sworn i read something that MS fixed the "hack" issue.

 

[cubby1223]

Originally posted by: Tostada
That's a pretty bogus argument. If you install SP2, it's going to harrass you to turn on automatic updates, and automatic updates work fine without authentication.

Ummm... did you read where I stated Windows Update fails to work, that also includes the automatic updates components.

Originally posted by: Tostada
Besides, if your computer is so screwed up that the Windows Update site doesn't work, you're probably going to have to reinstall -- running Ad-Aware from safe mode probably isn't going to fix a screwed OS.

Why would you ever give in and consider it acceptable to reload the OS? For many people that's not an option, and it's my job to get the computer in good working condition, and so far I have been able to do that, all except for the integrated Windows Update system. But atleast before authentication, I can still scan for & view the necessary updates, and manually download them.

 

[mechBgon]

But atleast before authentication, I can still scan for & view the necessary updates, and manually download them.

You do not need to authenticate to install and scan with MBSA. Give it a try.

 

[Tostada]

Originally posted by: cubby1223
Why would you ever give in and consider it acceptable to reload the OS? For many people that's not an option, and it's my job to get the computer in good working condition, and so far I have been able to do that, all except for the integrated Windows Update system. But atleast before authentication, I can still scan for & view the necessary updates, and manually download them.

Why would you give in and consider it acceptable to give them a broken computer? "Here, buddy, your computer works again except for that silly Automatic Updates thing!" If you're working on some average person's computer, you need to have Automatic Updates working, or else it's just going to break again.

What's wrong with reloading the OS? At the very least, you can fire up a repair install and come back in 30 min and it'll probably have your Automatic Updates fixed.

 

[Tostada]

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey
You don't have to register. Registration has nothing to do wwith changing hardware.

I meant product activation. I assume you're just being a smartass, but if not, you can't reinstall a retail copy of XP without calling Microsoft to activate it if you change your hardware.

 

[Budman]

http://home19.inet.tele.dk/jys05000/

 

[bsobel]

I meant product activation. I assume you're just being a smartass, but if not, you can't reinstall a retail copy of XP without calling Microsoft to activate it if you change your hardware.

Thats not true. You MAY need to call MS to activate, but in most consumer situations you won't....

Bill

 

[stash]

Ummm... did you read where I stated Windows Update fails to work, that also includes the automatic updates components.

Oh, but it doesn't. Read the FAQ: http://www.microsoft.com/genuine/downloads/FAQ.aspx?displaylang=en

Q:
Do all Windows users need to validate, or is validation limited to particular versions of Windows?

A:
Validation is required for all genuine Windows downloads on Microsoft Download Center and the Windows Update service for users of Windows XP and Windows 2000 (client, not server). Security updates are accessible to all users via Automatic Updates. Genuine Windows downloads are available, without validation, to customers running Windows 98, Windows ME, Windows Server 2003, and Windows NT 4.0 with Service Pack 3. Genuine Windows downloads are not available for older versions of Windows (Windows 95, Windows NT 4.0 with Service Pack 2 and earlier), and non-Microsoft operating systems.

Q:
Do security updates require validation?

A:
Security updates are not part of WGA. Security updates can be installed using the Windows XP Automatic Updates feature, or downloaded from the Download Center.

 

[bsobel]

Originally posted by: cubby1223

Originally posted by: Tostada
That's a pretty bogus argument. If you install SP2, it's going to harrass you to turn on automatic updates, and automatic updates work fine without authentication.

Ummm... did you read where I stated Windows Update fails to work, that also includes the automatic updates components.

We read it, but it's incorrect. Only the installer, automatic update service and bits are related here. If the malware screws with them then this is true, but saying that if Windows Updates fails than Automatic Updates also fails is false.

 

[cubby1223]

*sigh*

What WGA is, is another forced component essential to the protection of a secure computer, which cannot be uninstalled and reinstalled if the need should arise - and which I predict will become a prime target for malware to corrupt. Am I the only one who sees something wrong with this picture? I shouldn't have to "just deal with it," Microsoft shouldn't be making such critical components tightly integrated into the OS with little to no chance of repair.

How can I form my rant any clearer? That's it! And I'll stop posting in this thread now.

 

[nweaver]

how do you make your rant clearer? Get rid of windows and never buy MS stuff, that is how.

 

[stash]

What WGA is, is another forced component essential to the protection of a secure computer

You are a pro at selective reading. It is not essential to the protection of a secure computer.

 

[Tostada]

Originally posted by: cubby1223
*sigh*

What WGA is, is another forced component essential to the protection of a secure computer, which cannot be uninstalled and reinstalled if the need should arise - and which I predict will become a prime target for malware to corrupt. Am I the only one who sees something wrong with this picture? I shouldn't have to "just deal with it," Microsoft shouldn't be making such critical components tightly integrated into the OS with little to no chance of repair.

How can I form my rant any clearer? That's it! And I'll stop posting in this thread now.

Now that everybody disagreed with you you've totally changed your argument.

WGA is bad because it can't be uninstalled? OK, but that's no different from Media Player and a ton of other components.

WGA is bad because hackers are going to try to break it? That's just retarded.

 

[yukichigai]

WGA is bad because it directly controls whether or not you can even update your computer. One file does it. In the past it was a bunch of dlls scattered around the OS. Now there's one that hoses everything.

 

[Tostada]

I think a more concise way to put it would be:

WGA is bad because it pisses me off. It pisses everyone off. A company really shouldn't do something so obnoxious to its legitimate customers.

I could handle code wheels in my 1980's games, but copy protection like Windows authentication goes too far. Even shareware is doing that kind of thing now. At one point I paid for the DivX codec, but the activation was annoying enough that I ended up just using a hacked version anyway. All kinds of stuff is obnoxious like that nowdays.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: Tostada
I think a more concise way to put it would be:

WGA is bad because it pisses me off. It pisses everyone off. A company really shouldn't do something so obnoxious to its legitimate customers.

I could handle code wheels in my 1980's games, but copy protection like Windows authentication goes too far. Even shareware is doing that kind of thing now. At one point I paid for the DivX codec, but the activation was annoying enough that I ended up just using a hacked version anyway. All kinds of stuff is obnoxious like that nowdays.

It doesn't piss me off. I use consumer friendly software.

 

[yukichigai]

I'm seriously this (holds fingers really close together) far away from switching to Linux completely. The only reason I haven't yet is because I'm a gamer, and not just a gamer but a modder as well. Until Windows emulation on Linux comes far enough that I can get equal or better game performance running Linux versus running Windows I'm stuck using MS products.