Why were Roman Catholics mostly against Lincoln?

[Anarchist420]

It seems like every Roman Catholic back in Lincoln's time was a pro-alcohol, anti-public works, anti-central bank, pro-states' rights, Jeffersonian/Jacksonian/Bourbon Democrat (Justice Taney, Charles O'Connor [he was said to have been offered the Democratic nomination to run against Unconditional Surrender Grant] Dr. Samuel Mudd, Copperheads, the Irish Roman Catholics unanimously voted for Stephen A Douglas). Why was that? Why has that changed today?

I'm not Roman Catholic, but I'm against Stinkin Lincoln, and I think it's interesting that such a large demographic group tended to vote libertarian when the Democrats were the party of Jefferson, Jackson, Rum, Romanism, and Rebellion.

 

[Tristicus]

Why do you make threads?

 

[Throckmorton]

Stinkin Lincoln? So you're a pro-slavery anarchist? I guess it makes sense.

 

[First]

Why do you make threads?

Because he truly, honestly and wholeheartedly believes he's an informed individual.

 

[sportage]

I wont get into this... But as to the Roman Catholic church.. just google that and Hitler.
Roman Catholic church was very supportive of Hitler's agenda.
After all, Hitler believed he was doing God's will. As too did many religious groups back then. A must learn history lesson.

 

[Anarchist420]

Stinkin Lincoln? So you're a pro-slavery anarchist? I guess it makes sense.

Dude, Lincoln hated blacks. I'm not pro-slavery. What would make you think that I was?

 

[Tristicus]

Dude, Lincoln hated blacks. I'm not pro-slavery. What would make you think that I was?

 

[sandorski]

Because he touched himself at night.

Seriously though, there were strong indications that he was an Atheist. Including himself previous outright stating he was so.

 

[sandorski]

lol

 

[kage69]

Dude, Lincoln hated blacks.

Put. The Bong. Down.

Here's a bit of Lincoln wisdom you should ponder. It is better to remain silent and thought to be a fool, than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt.

 

[CaptainGoodnight]

I wont get into this... But as to the Roman Catholic church.. just google that and Hitler.
Roman Catholic church was very supportive of Hitler's agenda.
After all, Hitler believed he was doing God's will. As too did many religious groups back then. A must learn history lesson.

What parts of his agenda were they supportive of?

 

[ichy]

I agree with what someone else said in a different thread, anybody who calls himself Anarchist420 is probably a fifteen year old pretending to himself that he has profound and revolutionary ideas.

 

[djmartins]

Originally Posted by Anarchist420 Dude, Lincoln hated blacks.

Put. The Bong. Down.

Here's a bit of Lincoln wisdom you should ponder. It is better to remain silent and thought to be a fool, than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt.

Take your own advice:

One of Lincoln's most representative public statements on the question of racial relations was given in a speech at Springfield, Illinois, on June 26, 1857.6 In this address, he explained why he opposed the Kansas-Nebraska Act, which would have admitted Kansas into the Union as a slave state:

There is a natural disgust in the minds of nearly all white people to the idea of indiscriminate amalgamation of the white and black races ... A separation of the races is the only perfect preventive of amalgamation, but as an immediate separation is impossible, the next best thing is to keep them apart where they are not already together. If white and black people never get together in Kansas, they will never mix blood in Kansas ...
​

Racial separation, Lincoln went on to say, "must be effected by colonization" of the country's blacks to a foreign land. "The enterprise is a difficult one," he acknowledged,

but "where there is a will there is a way," and what colonization needs most is a hearty will. Will springs from the two elements of moral sense and self-interest. Let us be brought to believe it is morally right, and, at the same time, favorable to, or, at least, not against, our interest, to transfer the African to his native clime, and we shall find a way to do it, however great the task may be.
​

and then:

Between late August and mid-October, 1858, Lincoln and Douglas travelled together around the state to confront each other in seven historic debates. On August 21, before a crowd of 10,000 at Ottawa, Lincoln declared:17

I have no purpose directly or indirectly to interfere with the institution of slavery in the states where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so, and I have no inclination to do so.
​

He continued:

I have no purpose to introduce political and social equality between the white and black races. There is physical difference between the two which, in my judgment, will probably forever forbid their living together upon the footing of perfect equality, and inasmuch as it becomes a necessity that there must be a difference, I, as well as Judge Douglas, am in favor of the race to which I belong having the superior position.
​

Many people accepted the rumors spread by Douglas supporters that Lincoln favored social equality of the races. Before the start of the September 18 debate at Charleston, Illinois, an elderly man approached Lincoln in a hotel and asked him if the stories were true. Recounting the encounter later before a crowd of 15,000, Lincoln declared:18

I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races; I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people.
​

He continued:

I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I, as much as any other man, am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race.
​

 

[MotF Bane]

Put. The Bong. Down.

Here's a bit of Lincoln wisdom you should ponder. It is better to remain silent and thought to be a fool, than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt.

Quoted for posterity.

 

[BoberFett]

Haha, this thread could be fun.

 

[HeXen]

why do catholic priests like little boys and obviously all catholics approve since they follow? maybe they hate Lincoln cause he was apposed to sexual sickness on little boys...sicko's.

 

[Lemon law]

Oh Jesus Christ on a crutch, even if the Catholic Church hierarchy may have had various reasons to oppose Abe Lincoln, the average catholic parishioner did not.

Get em clue, the average pope is a dope, but the average Christian church, be it Catholic or Protestant, tends to be a force for social Justice. And the same can said for the Muslim faith and other faiths.

In short, the leaders tend to be idiots while the followers tend to be far more rational.

 

[kage69]

Take your own advice:



and then:

Source? Sorry, but there have been some who have falsified quotes by the Founding Fathers to support their revisionist histories so I'm naturally skeptical of anonymous blocks of text which don't necessarily support the notion of "hate." After all, as so many of our more stringently conservative countrymen have opined on the issue of homosexuality, you can disapprove without hate.

Besides, Lincoln himself was practically a slave as a child. If he indeed hated blacks, would he really have famously bowed to a former slave after the war?

What are the chances of a politician politickin to combat rumors from a rival?
I know that slavery was not the sole cause of the Civil War, but it did figure into it and I have trouble believing that a "black hater" would send thousands of white men off to die to end the institution and preserve the union. He may not have been a proponent of absolute equality, but to portray him as some kind of Klansman is wrong.

 

[kage69]

"He was the only white man whose conduct in my presence never reminded me of my race." -Frederick Douglas

So, was Douglas full of shit?

 

[manowar821]

Because he touched himself at night.

Seriously though, there were strong indications that he was an Atheist. Including himself previous outright stating he was so.

That'd be nice. A president who didn't march in-line with santa-worshiping tools, I mean.

 

[JEDIYoda]

It seems like every Roman Catholic back in Lincoln's time was a pro-alcohol, anti-public works, anti-central bank, pro-states' rights, Jeffersonian/Jacksonian/Bourbon Democrat (Justice Taney, Charles O'Connor [he was said to have been offered the Democratic nomination to run against Unconditional Surrender Grant] Dr. Samuel Mudd, Copperheads, the Irish Roman Catholics unanimously voted for Stephen A Douglas). Why was that? Why has that changed today?

I'm not Roman Catholic, but I'm against Stinkin Lincoln, and I think it's interesting that such a large demographic group tended to vote libertarian when the Democrats were the party of Jefferson, Jackson, Rum, Romanism, and Rebellion.

First of all your do know what your talking about.
Second of all why do you post?
Thirdly you need to bring so proof to the table...links......

lastly--- Put. The Bong. Down.

Here's a bit of Lincoln wisdom you should ponder. It is better to remain silent and thought to be a fool, than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt.

 

[First]

How is this parody poster not banned yet?

 

[Throckmorton]

Take your own advice:



and then:

It's called winning an election. The prevailing thought at the time was that blacks were inferior and most people were opposed to miscegenation, just like most are opposed to gay marriage today.

See also: Obama saying that he opposes gay marriage because "marriage is between a man and a woman" because anyone who supports gay marriage, no matter how moral that position is, can't be elected.

 

[Linflas]

It's called winning an election. The prevailing thought at the time was that blacks were inferior and most people were opposed to miscegenation, just like most are opposed to gay marriage today.

See also: Obama saying that he opposes gay marriage because "marriage is between a man and a woman" because anyone who supports gay marriage, no matter how moral that position is, can't be elected.

Some folks capacity for self delusion to make unpleasant facts fit their world view is amazing be it that Lincoln's racial views were a deeply held secret that would meld perfectly with our 21st century views on race or that Obama is secretly an atheist masquerading as a Christian and doesn't really believe the things he claims to believe.

It is entirely possible that Lincoln held the same views as most "whites" of the day regarding race and at the same time found slavery incompatible to the principles of a nation founded on liberty and equality. Likewise Obama could very well believe that gays deserve the full rights to enter a partnership based on their relationship with all the legal rights and benefits enjoyed by heterosexual couples yet that union is not a Marriage.

 

[Onceler]

He made a large centralized government in power over every thing and fought a war that should not have been fought denying state's rights