Why Washington plays 'Tibet Roulette' with China

sunzt

Diamond Member
Nov 27, 2003
3,076
3
81
Here's a link to what I thought was a very enlightening piece about US foreign policy over these past few decades. The Lama part isn't as important as the section where it talks about the US' focus on the Eurasia region. Link

Edit:

Orig source (thx to ericlp):
http://www.globalresearch.ca/i...hp?context=va&aid=8625

Why Washington plays 'Tibet Roulette' with China
By William Engdahl (china.org.cn)
Updated: 2008-04-16 21:34

Washington has obviously decided on an ultra-high risk geopolitical game with Beijing by fanning the flames of violence in Tibet just at this sensitive time in their relations and on the run-up to the Beijing Olympics. It's part of an escalating strategy of destabilization of China which has been initiated by the Bush Administration over the past months, and which includes the attempt to ignite an anti-China Saffron Revolution in the neighboring Myanmar region, bringing US-led NATO troops into Darfur where China's oil companies are developing potentially huge oil reserves. It includes counter moves across minerals rich Africa. And it includes strenuous efforts to turn India into a major new US forward base on the Asian sub-continent to be deployed against China.

The current Tibet operation got the green light in October last year when George Bush agreed to meet the Dalai Lama for the first time publicly in Washington. The President of the United States is not unaware of the high stakes of such an insult to Beijing. Bush deepened the affront to America's largest trading partner, China, by agreeing to attend as the US Congress awarded the Dalai Lama the Congressional Gold Medal.

The immediate expressions of support for the monks of Tibet from George Bush, Condi Rice, France's Nicolas Sarkozy and Germany's Angela Merkel most recently took on dimensions of the absurd. Ms Merkel announced she would boycott attending the August Beijing Summer Olympics as her protest at the Beijing treatment of the Tibetan monks. What her press secretary omitted is that she had not even planned to go in the first place.

She was followed by an announcement that Poland's Prime Minister, the pro-Washington Donald Tusk, would also stay away, along with pro-US Czech President Vaclav Klaus. It is unclear whether they also hadn't planned to go in the first place but it made for dramatic press headlines. The recent wave of violent protests and documented attacks by Tibetan monks began on March 10 when several hundred monks marched on Lhasa to demand release of other monks allegedly detained for celebrating the award of the US Congress' Gold Medal last October. The monks were joined by other monks marching to protest Beijing rule on the 49th anniversary of the Tibetan uprising against Chinese rule.

The geopolitical game

As the Chinese government itself was clear to point out, the sudden eruption of the violence in Tibet, a new phase in the movement led by the exiled Dalai Lama, was suspiciously timed to put the spotlight on Beijing's human rights record on the eve of the coming Olympics. The Beijing Olympics are an event seen in China as a major acknowledgement of the arrival of a new prosperous China on the world stage. The background actors in the Tibet actions confirm that Washington has been working overtime in recent months to prepare another of its infamous Color Revolutions, these fanning public protests designed to inflict maximum embarrassment on Beijing. The actors on the ground in and outside Tibet are the usual suspects, tied to the US State Department, including the National Endowment for Democracy (NED), the CIA's Freedom House through its chairman, Bette Bao Lord and her role in the International Committee for Tibet, as well as the Trace Foundation financed by the wealth of George Soros through his daughter, Andrea Soros Colombel. Chinese Prime Minister Wen Jiabao has said the Dalai Lama orchestrated the latest unrest to sabotage the Olympic Games "in order to achieve their unspeakable goal", Tibetan independence. Bush telephoned his Chinese counterpart, President Hu Jintao, to pressure for talks between Beijing and the exiled Dalai Lama. The White House said that Bush, "raised his concerns about the situation in Tibet and encouraged the Chinese government to engage in substantive dialogue with the Dalai Lama's representatives and to allow access for journalists and diplomats." President Hu reportedly told Bush the Dalai Lama must "stop his sabotage" of the Olympics before Beijing takes a decision on talks with the exiled Tibetan spiritual leader, foreign ministry spokesman Qin Gang said.

Dalai Lama's odd friends

In the West the image of the Dalai Lama has been so promoted that in many circles he is deemed almost a God. While the spiritual life of the Dalai Lama is not our focus, it is relevant to note briefly the circles he has chosen to travel in most of his life. The Dalai Lama travels in what can only be called rather conservative political circles. What is generally forgotten today is that during the 1930's the Nazis including Gestapo chief Heinrich Himmler and other top Nazi Party leaders regarded Tibet as the holy site of the survivors of the lost Atlantis, and the origin of the "Nordic pure race." When he was 11 and already designated Dalai Lama, he was befriended by a Nazi and officer of Heinrich Himmler's feared SS, Heinrich Harrer. Far from the image of the popular Hollywood film with Brad Pitt, Harrer was an elite SS member at the time he met the 11 year old Dalai Lama and became his tutor in "the world outside Tibet." While only the Dalai Lama knows the contents of Harrer's private lessons, the two remained friends until Harrer died a ripe 93 in 2006. That sole friendship, of course, does not define a person's character, but it is interesting in the context of later friends. In April 1999, along with Margaret Thatcher, and former Beijing Ambassador, CIA Director and President, George H.W. Bush, the Dalai Lama demanded the British government release Augusto Pinochet, the former dictator of Chile and a longtime CIA client who was visiting England. The Dalai Lama urged that Pinochet not be forced to go to Spain where he was wanted to stand trial for crimes against humanity. The Dalai Lama had close ties to Miguel Serrano, head of Chile's National Socialist Party, a proponent of something called esoteric Hitlerism.

Leaving aside at this point the claim of the Dalai Lama to divinity, what is indisputable is that he has been surrounded and financed in significant part, since his flight into Indian exile in 1959, by various US and Western intelligence services and their gaggle of NGOs. It is the agenda of the Washington friends of the Dalai Lama that is relevant here. The NED at work again? As author Michael Parenti notes in his work, Friendly Feudalism: The Tibet Myth, "during the 1950s and 60s, the CIA actively backed the Tibetan cause with arms, military training, money, air support and all sorts of other help." The US-based American Society for a Free Asia, a CIA front, publicized the cause of Tibetan resistance, with the Dalai Lama's eldest brother, Thubtan Norbu, playing an active role in the group. The Dalai Lama's second-eldest brother, Gyalo Thondup, established an intelligence operation with the CIA in 1951. It was later upgraded into a CIA-trained guerrilla unit whose recruits parachuted back into Tibet, according to Parenti. According to declassified US intelligence documents released in the late 1990s, "for much of the 1960s, the CIA provided the Tibetan exile movement with $1.7 million a year for operations against China, including an annual subsidy of $180,000 for the Dalai Lama." With help of the CIA, the Dalai Lama fled to Dharamsala, India where he lives to the present. He continues to receive millions of dollars in backing today, not from the CIA but from a more innocuous-sounding CIA front organization, funded by the US Congress, the National Endowment for Democracy (NED). The NED has been instrumental in every US-backed Color Revolution destabilization from Serbia to Georgia to Ukraine to Myanmar. Its funds go to back opposition media and global public relations campaigns to popularize their pet opposition candidates. As in the other recent Color Revolutions, the US Government is fanning the flames of destabilization against China by funding opposition protest organizations inside and outside Tibet through its arm, the National Endowment for Democracy (NED). The NED was founded by the Reagan Administration in the early 1980's, on the recommendation of Bill Casey, Reagan's Director of the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), following a series of high-publicity exposures of CIA destabilizations, assassinations and destabilizations of unfriendly regimes. The NED was designed to pose as an independent NGO, one step removed from the CIA and Government agencies so as to be less conspicuous, presumably. The first acting President of the NED, Allen Weinstein, commented to the Washington Post that, "A lot of what we [the NED] do today was done covertly 25 years ago by the CIA." American intelligence historian, William Blum states, "The NED played an important role in the Iran-Contra affair of the 1980s, funding key components of Oliver North's shadowy "Project Democracy." This network privatized US foreign policy, waged war, ran arms and drugs, and engaged in other equally charming activities. In 1987, a White House spokesman stated that those at NED "run Project Democracy." The most prominent pro-Dalai Lama Tibet independence organization today is the International Campaign for Tibet, founded in Washington in 1988. Since at least 1994 the ICT has been receiving funds from the NED. The ICT awarded their annual Light of Truth award in 2005 to Carl Gershman, founded of the NED. Other ICT award winners have included the German Friedrich Naumann Foundation and Czech leader, Vaclav Havel. The ICT Board of Directors is peopled with former US State Department officials including Gare Smith and Julia Taft.

Another especially active anti-Beijing organization is the US-based Students for a Free Tibet, founded in 1994 in New York City as a project of US Tibet Committee and the NED-financed International Campaign for Tibet (ICT). The SFT is most known for unfurling a 450 foot banner atop the Great Wall in China; calling for a free Tibet, and accusing Beijing of wholly unsubstantiated claims of genocide against Tibet. It makes good drama to rally naive students.

The SFT was among five organizations which this past January that proclaimed start of a "Tibetan people's uprising" on Jan 4 this year and co-founded a temporary office in charge of coordination and financing.

Harry Wu is another prominent Dalai Lama supporter against Beijing. He became notorious for claiming falsely in a 1996 Playboy interview that he had "videotaped a prisoner whose kidneys were surgically removed while he was alive, and then the prisoner was taken out and shot. The tape was broadcast by BBC." The BBC film showed nothing of the sort, but the damage was done. How many people check old BBC archives? Wu, a retired Berkeley professor, is head of the Laogai Research Foundation, a tax-exempt organization whose main funding is from the NED.

Among related projects, the US Government-financed NED also supports the Tibet Times newspaper, run out of the Dalai Lama's exile base at Dharamsala, India. The NED also funds the Tibet Multimedia Center for "information dissemination that addresses the struggle for human rights and democracy in Tibet," also based in Dharamsala. And NED finances the Tibetan Center for Human Rights and Democracy.

In short, US State Department and US intelligence community finger prints are all over the upsurge around the Free Tibet movement and the attacks of March. The question to be asked is why, and especially why now?

Tibet's raw minerals treasure

Tibet is of strategic import to China not only for its geographical location astride the border with India, Washington's newest anti-China ally in Asia. Tibet is also a treasure of minerals and also oil. Tibet contains some of the world's largest uranium and borax deposits, one half of the world's lithium, the largest copper deposits in Asia, enormous iron deposits, and over 80,000 gold mines. Tibet has large timber reserve. Tibet also contains some of the largest oil reserves in the region.

On the Tibet Autonomous Region's border along the Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region is also a vast oil and mineral region in the Qaidam Basin, known as a "treasure basin." The Basin has 57 different types of mineral resources with proven reserves including petroleum, natural gas, coal, crude salt, potassium, magnesium, lead, zinc and gold. These mineral resources have a potential economic value of 15 trillion yuan or US$1.8 trillion. Proven reserves of potassium, lithium and crude salt in the basin are the biggest in China. And situated as it is, on the "roof of the world," Tibet is perhaps the world's most valuable water source. Tibet is the source of seven of Asia's greatest rivers which provide water for 2 billion people." He who controls Tibet's water has a mighty powerful geopolitical lever over all Asia. But the prime interest of Tibet for Washington today is its potential to act as a lever to destabilize and blackmail the Beijing Government.

Washington's 'nonviolence as a form of warfare'

The events in Tibet since March 10 have been played in Western media with little regard to accuracy or independent cross-checking. Most of the pictures blown up in European and US newspapers and TV have not even been of Chinese military oppression of Tibetan lamas or monks. They have been shown to be in most cases either Reuters or AFP pictures of Han Chinese being beaten by Tibetan monks in paramilitary organizations. In some instances German TV stations ran video pictures of beatings that were not even from Tibet but rather by Nepalese police in Kathmandu.

The western media complicity simply further underlies that the actions around Tibet are part of a well-orchestrated destabilization effort on the part of Washington. What few people realize is that the National Endowment for Democracy (NED) was also instrumental, along with Gene Sharp's misnamed Albert Einstein Institution through Colonel Robert Helvey, in the incident at Tiananmen Square in June 1989. The Albert Einstein Institution, as it describes itself, specializes in "nonviolence as a form of warfare."

Colonel Helvey was formerly with the Defense Intelligence Agency stationed in Myanmar. Helvey trained in Hong Kong the student leaders from Beijing in mass demonstration techniques which they were to use in the Tiananmen Square incident of June 1989. He is now believed acting as an adviser to the Falun Gong in similar civil disobedience techniques. Helvey nominally retired from the army in 1991, but had been working with Albert Einstein and George Soros long before then. In its annual report for 2004 Helvey's Albert Einstein Institution admitted to advising people in Tibet.

With the emergence of the Internet and mobile telephone use, the US Pentagon has refined an entirely new form of regime change and political destabilization. As one researcher of the phenomenon behind the wave of color revolutions, Jonathan Mowat, describes it, ??What we are seeing is civilian application of Secretary Donald Rumsfeld's "Revolution in Military Affairs" doctrine, which depends on highly mobile small group deployments "enabled" by "real time" intelligence and communications. Squads of soldiers taking over city blocks with the aid of "intelligence helmet" video screens that give them an instantaneous overview of their environment, constitute the military side. Bands of youth converging on targeted intersections in constant dialogue on cell phones constitute the doctrine's civilian application. "This parallel should not be surprising since the US military and National Security Agency subsidized the development of the Internet, cellular phones, and software platforms. From their inception, these technologies were studied and experimented with in order to find the optimal use in a new kind of warfare. The "revolution" in warfare that such new instruments permit has been pushed to the extreme by several specialists in psychological warfare. Although these military utopians have been working in high places, (for example the RAND Corporation, for a very long time, to a large extent they only took over some of the most important command structures of the US military apparatus with the victory of the neoconservatives in the Pentagon of Donald Rumsfeld. Washington policy has used and refined these techniques of "revolutionary nonviolence," and NED operations embodied a series of 'democratic' or soft coup projects as part of a larger strategy which would strategically cut China off from access to its vital external oil and gas reserves. The 1970's quote attributed to then-Secretary of State Henry Kissinger, a proponent of British geopolitics in an American context comes to mind: "If you control the oil you control entire nations?" The destabilization attempt by Washington using Tibet, no doubt with quiet "help" from its friends in British and other pro-NATO intelligence services, is part of a clear pattern. It includes Washington's "Saffron revolution" attempts to destabilize Myanmar. It includes the ongoing effort to get NATO troops into Darfur to block China's access to strategically vital oil resources there and elsewhere in Africa. It includes attempts to foment problems in Uzbekistan, Kyrgystan and to disrupt China's vital new energy pipeline projects to Kazakhstan. The earlier Asian Great Silk Road trade routes went through Tashkent in Uzbekistan and Almaty in Kazakhstan for geographically obvious reasons, in a region surrounded by major mountain ranges. Geopolitical control of Uzbekistan, Kyrgystan, Kazakhstan would enable control of any potential pipeline routes between China and Central Asia just as the encirclement of Russia controls pipeline and other ties between it and western Europe, China, India and the Middle East, where China depends on uninterrupted oil flows from Iran, Saudi Arabia and other OPEC countries.

Behind the strategy to encircle China

In this context, a revealing New York Council on Foreign Relations analysis in their Foreign Affairs magazine from Zbigniew Brzezinski from September/October 1997 is worth quoting. Brzezinski, a protégé of David Rockefeller and a follower of the founder of British geopolitics, Sir Halford Mackinder, is today the foreign policy adviser to Presidential candidate, Barack Obama. In 1997 he revealingly wrote:

'Eurasia is home to most of the world's politically assertive and dynamic states. All the historical pretenders to global power originated in Eurasia. The world's most populous aspirants to regional hegemony, China and India, are in Eurasia, as are all the potential political or economic challengers to American primacy. After the United States, the next six largest economies and military spenders are there, as are all but one of the world's overt nuclear powers, and all but one of the covert ones. Eurasia accounts for 75 percent of the world's population; 60 percent of its GNP, and 75 percent of its energy resources. Collectively, Eurasia's potential power overshadows even America's.

'Eurasia is the world's axial supercontinent. A power that dominated Eurasia would exercise decisive influence over two of the world's three most economically productive regions, Western Europe and East Asia. A glance at the map also suggests that a country dominant in Eurasia would almost automatically control the Middle East and Africa. With Eurasia now serving as the decisive geopolitical chessboard, it no longer suffices to fashion one policy for Europe and another for Asia. What happens with the distribution of power on the Eurasian landmass will be of decisive importance to America's global primacy?.'(emphasis mine-w.e.).

This statement, written well before the US-led bombing of former Yugoslavia and the US military occupations in Afghanistan and Iraq, or its support of the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan Pipeline, puts Washington pronouncements about 'ridding the world of tyranny' and about spreading democracy, into a somewhat different context from the one usually mentioned by George W. Bush of others. It's about global hegemony, not democracy. It should be no surprise when powers such as China are not convinced that giving Washington such overwhelming power is in China's national interest, any more than Russia thinks that it would be a step towards peace to let NATO gobble up Ukraine and Georgia and put US missiles on Russia's doorstep "to defend against threat of Iranian nuclear attack on the United States."

The US-led destabilization in Tibet is part of a strategic shift of great significance. It comes at a time when the US economy and the US dollar, still the world's reserve currency, are in the worst crisis since the 1930's. It is significant that the US Administration sends Wall Street banker, former Goldman Sachs chairman, Henry Paulson to Beijing in the midst of its efforts to embarrass Beijing in Tibet.
Washington is literally playing with fire. China long ago surpassed Japan as the world's largest holder of foreign currency reserves, now in the range of $1.5 trillions, most of which are invested in US Treasury debt instruments. Paulson knows well that were Beijing to decide it could bring the dollar to its knees by selling only a small portion of its US debt on the market.
 

rchiu

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2002
3,846
0
0
Heh, good that you believe this crap from Chinese government mouthpiece. And thank you for threatening us for supporting Tibetan seeking basic human right, that might work for chicken $hit like yourself, but not the rest of us.
 

sunzt

Diamond Member
Nov 27, 2003
3,076
3
81
The author has written on issues of energy, politics and economics for more than 30 years, beginning with the first oil shock in the early 1970's.

He has contributed regularly to a number of publications, including Japan's Nihon Keizai Shimbun, Foresight magazine; Grant'sInvestor.com, European Banker and Business Banker International.

He has also spoken at numerous international conferences on geopolitical, economic and energy subjects, and is active as a consulting economist.

He's not exactly a gov mouthpiece. He's a westerner like you. I really don't see how posting an article is exactly threatening anyone. I dunno why you're so sensitive. Oh well. Thanks for adding nothing.
 

rchiu

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2002
3,846
0
0
Originally posted by: sunzt
The author has written on issues of energy, politics and economics for more than 30 years, beginning with the first oil shock in the early 1970's.

He has contributed regularly to a number of publications, including Japan's Nihon Keizai Shimbun, Foresight magazine; Grant'sInvestor.com, European Banker and Business Banker International.

He has also spoken at numerous international conferences on geopolitical, economic and energy subjects, and is active as a consulting economist.

He's not exactly a gov mouthpiece. He's a westerner like you. I really don't see how posting an article is exactly threatening anyone. I dunno why you're so sensitive. Oh well. Thanks for adding nothing.

So? the publisher is China.org.cn and they can pay the author to write anything they want or they won't publish it at all. And what do you call "playing with fire","were Beijing to decide it could bring the dollar to its knees by selling only a small portion of its US debt on the market."

Oh and I am not exactly westerner. I am a Chinese from Taiwan living in the US and I feel sorry for people like you standing up for piece of $hit communist china government that ignores human right and personal freedom that give all Chinese a bad name.
 

sunzt

Diamond Member
Nov 27, 2003
3,076
3
81
Originally posted by: rchiu
Originally posted by: sunzt
The author has written on issues of energy, politics and economics for more than 30 years, beginning with the first oil shock in the early 1970's.

He has contributed regularly to a number of publications, including Japan's Nihon Keizai Shimbun, Foresight magazine; Grant'sInvestor.com, European Banker and Business Banker International.

He has also spoken at numerous international conferences on geopolitical, economic and energy subjects, and is active as a consulting economist.

He's not exactly a gov mouthpiece. He's a westerner like you. I really don't see how posting an article is exactly threatening anyone. I dunno why you're so sensitive. Oh well. Thanks for adding nothing.

So? the publisher is China.org.cn and they can pay the author to write anything they want or they won't publish it at all. And what do you call "playing with fire","were Beijing to decide it could bring the dollar to its knees by selling only a small portion of its US debt on the market."

Anyone outlet can pay any author to write anything they want. Just because it doesn't agree with your opinion (or the demonized image of China that you're used to) doesn't automatically mean that it's some sort of government propaganda. So it's published by China.org.cn, does it null all his research, facts, and argument? The author has some real points and you seem bent on disbelieving anything he says that doesn't demonize China.

"Playing with fire" are his words, not mine. How am I threatening people? He has a point, that China can, although it's unlikely to get to that point, sell US debt. No need to direct your anger with him at me. Chill out.
 

sunzt

Diamond Member
Nov 27, 2003
3,076
3
81
Originally posted by: rchiu
Oh and I am not exactly westerner. I am a Chinese from Taiwan living in the US and I feel sorry for people like you standing up for piece of $hit communist china government that ignores human right and personal freedom that give all Chinese a bad name.

Hmm according to 60% of the voters in Taiwan, they don't mind having closer relations with a "piece of $hit communist china government that ignores human right and personal freedom that give all Chinese a bad name."

Maybe they shouldn't deal with governments that they don't like? I think they spoke for themselves.
 

sunzt

Diamond Member
Nov 27, 2003
3,076
3
81

ayabe

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2005
7,449
0
0
I say let 'er rip China, you want to crash the dollar go for it. It will hurt us but your economy will collapse entirely when we stop buying your goods leading to starvation and massive unrest.

But hey go ahead, I double dare you.
 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
11,521
0
76
Ever heard of M.A.D.? (no, not the magazine...)

Well, this is just the economic equivalent...
 

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
20,577
432
126
Washington is literally playing with fire. China long ago surpassed Japan as the world's largest holder of foreign currency reserves, now in the range of $1.5 trillions, most of which are invested in US Treasury debt instruments. Paulson knows well that were Beijing to decide it could bring the dollar to its knees by selling only a small portion of its US debt on the market.

*yawns* Really? Bring the dollar to its knees? I join ayabe in saying, "Go ahead. Make my day." China needs the cash to keep its billion-plus people fed just slightly more than the West needs its ability to manufacture on the cheap. It'd be a great opportunity to shift those factories out of China and into nations where human rights are better respected.
 

ericlp

Diamond Member
Dec 24, 2000
6,133
219
106
Originally posted by: ayabe
I say let 'er rip China, you want to crash the dollar go for it. It will hurt us but your economy will collapse entirely when we stop buying your goods leading to starvation and massive unrest.

But hey go ahead, I double dare you.

Ok, this is rich... Now how is China going to crash the dollar? Can't a person or nation move it's currency from one bank to another? Hey, how else are you going to fight a war in Disneyland? Stupid us for doing that right? Apparently we are, since we are still borrowing funds to keep the trip to dineyland going! Pathetic!!!

I don't think China would intentionally try to hurt the dollar but I do believe they would try to save some cash by moving funds into a better investment.

By doing this, and to dollar continues to lose value, I think more people would be shopping at wall mart! Well, there goes your starvation and massive unrest claim.

Also, even if everyone in the USA stopped shopping at wall mart. Where do you think sears, kmart, Target, Dell, Gateway, Apple, IBM, etc....etc.... get products to sell to you? Are you going to just stop buying things?

I don't even look to see where things are made anymore, Pretty much it's all made in China.... Or maybe I just buy the stuff that happens to be made in China? Brother Printers, and the one touch 500Gig Maxtor HD you guessed it... Made and Assembled in China.

Even down to the 18Vold Ryobi tool set at HomeDepot Yep....China.

I quad dear you to find products NOT made in china. Even my Motorola cell phone sigh...yes........made in China.

Good Luck!
 

rchiu

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2002
3,846
0
0
Originally posted by: sunzt
Originally posted by: rchiu
Oh and I am not exactly westerner. I am a Chinese from Taiwan living in the US and I feel sorry for people like you standing up for piece of $hit communist china government that ignores human right and personal freedom that give all Chinese a bad name.

Hmm according to 60% of the voters in Taiwan, they don't mind having closer relations with a "piece of $hit communist china government that ignores human right and personal freedom that give all Chinese a bad name."

Maybe they shouldn't deal with governments that they don't like? I think they spoke for themselves.

bwahahaha, where the heck did you get that info. Taiwanese people may want closer economics, trade or travel ties with China, but I dare you to find one Taiwanese that would actually want to have anything to do with the communist government. And quite frankly, bunch of my educated Chinese friend from China hate the communist government with a passion, even tho they are proud to be Chinese. The Chinese communist government is a sorry excuse of a leadership, corrupted (see how many high level party member steal money from the people and run to foreign country), misuse of power (check on all the stories of local government collude with business to kick people out of their property so they can build plants and stuff), party of the few (see cronw prince party of China)....the list goes on and on.

Tibet just happens to showcase how brutal, undemocratic Chinese government is to the world, and it's a shame because Chinese people deserve much better then that.
 

ayabe

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2005
7,449
0
0
Originally posted by: ericlp
Originally posted by: ayabe
I say let 'er rip China, you want to crash the dollar go for it. It will hurt us but your economy will collapse entirely when we stop buying your goods leading to starvation and massive unrest.

But hey go ahead, I double dare you.

Ok, this is rich... Now how is China going to crash the dollar? Can't a person or nation move it's currency from one bank to another? Hey, how else are you going to fight a war in Disneyland? Stupid us for doing that right? Apparently we are, since we are still borrowing funds to keep the trip to dineyland going! Pathetic!!!

Read the OP, that's what this guy wants his government to do. But further devaluing the dollar will have broad world wide implications beyond the US and China, this will lead to famine and social unrest everywhere. If you don't believe this then you don't understand world economics.

As for the rest, not sure what you are getting at other than ranting. The current policy can't be continued for much longer, we know that and so do the Chinese.

But, there are plenty of markets capable of producing consumer goods that don't have the baggage that China does. Mexico, Korea, India, even Taiwan(just to throw salt on the wounds) the list is endless. The reason corporations have flocked to China is because of their non-existent labor laws, loose environmental regulations, and super low labor wages.

 

ericlp

Diamond Member
Dec 24, 2000
6,133
219
106
Originally posted by: yllus
Washington is literally playing with fire. China long ago surpassed Japan as the world's largest holder of foreign currency reserves, now in the range of $1.5 trillions, most of which are invested in US Treasury debt instruments. Paulson knows well that were Beijing to decide it could bring the dollar to its knees by selling only a small portion of its US debt on the market.

*yawns* Really? Bring the dollar to its knees? I join ayabe in saying, "Go ahead. Make my day." China needs the cash to keep its billion-plus people fed just slightly more than the West needs its ability to manufacture on the cheap. It'd be a great opportunity to shift those factories out of China and into nations where human rights are better respected.

Boy just when I thought it couldn't get much better.

Well, the problem is, they are heavily invested and when I say are, I mean, Apple and Intel spent billions bringing in factories and training to make parts to sell back to us. I don't think it's going to be that simple. Besides what country besides India did you have in mind? Your going to need a big team of engineers to design and make a quality product. That comes with a mountain of education and when I say big I mean in the thousands.

Can it be done? Sure if you got the money and resources to do it.

Why not move to factories back to the USA? Rubbermaid apparently is doing that... After closing up shop and making it's products in China. I guess they are trying to make a come back.
 

ericlp

Diamond Member
Dec 24, 2000
6,133
219
106
Originally posted by: rchiu
Originally posted by: sunzt
Originally posted by: rchiu
Oh and I am not exactly westerner. I am a Chinese from Taiwan living in the US and I feel sorry for people like you standing up for piece of $hit communist china government that ignores human right and personal freedom that give all Chinese a bad name.

Hmm according to 60% of the voters in Taiwan, they don't mind having closer relations with a "piece of $hit communist china government that ignores human right and personal freedom that give all Chinese a bad name."

Maybe they shouldn't deal with governments that they don't like? I think they spoke for themselves.

bwahahaha, where the heck did you get that info. Taiwanese people may want closer economics, trade or travel ties with China, but I dare you to find one Taiwanese that would actually want to have anything to do with the communist government. And quite frankly, bunch of my educated Chinese friend from China hate the communist government with a passion, even tho they are proud to be Chinese. The Chinese communist government is a sorry excuse of a leadership, corrupted (see how many high level party member steal money from the people and run to foreign country), misuse of power (check on all the stories of local government collude with business to kick people out of their property so they can build plants and stuff), party of the few (see cronw prince party of China)....the list goes on and on.

Tibet just happens to showcase how brutal, undemocratic Chinese government is to the world, and it's a shame because Chinese people deserve much better then that.

Wow, sounds like the USA!!!! Except we vote em in and let them get away with it!

 

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
20,577
432
126
Originally posted by: ericlp
Originally posted by: yllus
Washington is literally playing with fire. China long ago surpassed Japan as the world's largest holder of foreign currency reserves, now in the range of $1.5 trillions, most of which are invested in US Treasury debt instruments. Paulson knows well that were Beijing to decide it could bring the dollar to its knees by selling only a small portion of its US debt on the market.

*yawns* Really? Bring the dollar to its knees? I join ayabe in saying, "Go ahead. Make my day." China needs the cash to keep its billion-plus people fed just slightly more than the West needs its ability to manufacture on the cheap. It'd be a great opportunity to shift those factories out of China and into nations where human rights are better respected.

Boy just when I thought it couldn't get much better.

Well, the problem is, they are heavily invested and when I say are, I mean, Apple and Intel spent billions bringing in factories and training to make parts to sell back to us. I don't think it's going to be that simple. Besides what country besides India did you have in mind? Your going to need a big team of engineers to design and make a quality product. That comes with a mountain of education and when I say big I mean in the thousands.

Can it be done? Sure if you got the money and resources to do it.

Why not move to factories back to the USA? Rubbermaid apparently is doing that... After closing up shop and making it's products in China. I guess they are trying to make a come back.

What country don't I have in mind? Plenty are chomping at the bit to take China's place. It's just that the infrastructure and incentives in China for manufacturing are currently hard to compete against. How about we let Cambodia take on some more industry?

Cambodia's Garment Makers Hold Off a Vast Chinese Challenge

Cambodia, while still a very cheap place to produce apparel, has chosen to rely on outside inspectors and to foster unusually strong garment unions that have become an independent political force in a country otherwise awash in corruption and cronyism. The efforts at improvement here may point the way for other nations seeking to avoid a race to the bottom as they struggle to establish or sustain footholds in the global economy.

Despite the loss of special access to the American market with the end of quotas, the Cambodian government, many garment-factory owners and the unions here are sticking to their higher standards. All agree that these factors have helped Cambodia escape much of the convulsion that is sweeping through the global apparel industry.

Cham Prasith, the Cambodian minister of commerce who reached the deal with Washington in 1999, said the benefits had gone beyond anyone's expectations.

"We are extending our labor standards beyond the end of the quotas because we know that is why we continue to have buyers," he said in an interview. "If we didn't respect the unions and the labor standards, we would be killing the goose that lays the golden eggs."

A big team of engineers needed? Cost of education? I think you're sorely misinformed about how the import/export market works today. To use one of your own examples, Intel may do chip manufacturing in China, but they do their design work in the US. Now I'm not sure how much you know about CPU design, but the costs are all in R&D and tool design - the chips themselves are ridiculously inexpensive.

Fact of the matter is China is a very cost-efficient place to do manufacturing, but is not yet somewhere prized for its educated, creative workforce. Nor will it be in the near future. The work done there could be slaved out to be done anywhere. Hell, I bet a number of countries would gladly help pay to have those factories built locally. Money and resources nothing.
 

piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
17,168
60
91
It is China that is prosecuting and occupying the kingdom of Tibet, not the USA! Lets put the shoe onto the foot that it belongs.
 

Harvey

Administrator<br>Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
35,052
30
86
Originally posted by: ayabe
I say let 'er rip China, you want to crash the dollar go for it. It will hurt us but your economy will collapse entirely when we stop buying your contaminated, toxic and defective goods leading to starvation and massive unrest among your slave labor force.

But hey go ahead, I double dare you. You can always get more slaves from Tibet.

Updated for accuracy.
 

Qianglong

Senior member
Jan 29, 2006
937
0
0
Originally posted by: piasabird
It is China that is prosecuting and occupying the kingdom of Tibet, not the USA! Lets put the shoe onto the foot that it belongs.

Yeah since 3000 years ago. What is your point?