Why was the intelligence from the State Department ignored and ridiculed? What happend to DOD's special Intel group?

[tnitsuj]

During the entire run-up to war the State Departments intelligence reports in regards to WMD and post Saddam Iraq was consistantly ignored and ridiculed. A prominent conservative author even wrote a book describing the State Department as an unfriendly obstacle that might be better off nuked.

I had many a discussion on this forum with people who were ridiculing the State Departments assessments which have been proven correct?

Why was this ignored?

Why is Rumsfelds and Wolfowitzes special intelligence gathering group being totally ignored? You know the one established to get the goods on Iraq prior to the war because the other agencies were insufficiently agressive?

 

[Moonbeam]

You are still suffering from the halutination that WMD had something to do with Iraq. You would do much better to focus on PNAC. WMD was only a pretext to sell the people. Nobody in the Admin gave a sh!t about WMD beyond selling a war that could not be sold as a dream of American Imperialism that it really was and is and will continue to be. We are taking over the world. You are merely baggage. Don't get caught under the wheels.

 

[Witling]

I find myself in the unbelievable position of agreeing with each of you (Tnit and Moonie). Tnit has observed the powerful political process that allows us to believe one source and completely disregard another. (Editor's note: This phenomnum is never seen on this board, where everyone respects everyone else.) Moonie is right about the motives. The strategy will not work and eventually we'll see a lot of revisionist history -- as we're now seeing with the Bush Administration. OK, OK, so there weren't weapons of mass destruction! We're still better off without Saddam. Jesu, for $87 Billion we could have bought Saddam and had Syria thrown in in the bargain! But, then the boys with toys wouldn't have had a chance to try them out.

EDITED: I hope I don't sound cynical.

 

[fwtong]

I remember that last year, a bunch of people informed me that the infalliable US intelligence was absolutely, 100% correct, that Bush and Cheney would never lie, everything that America does is right and the world is wrong, and to wait because the weapons of mass destruction would be found. I just needed to be patient, and I was personally assured by several people on this board that they would be found. Can I stop waiting now?

 

[Witling]

Alas, FWTong, you are the victem of a null hypothesis. It is a well established axiom in logic that "you cannot prove a null hypothesis." Put another way, how can we ever say that something doesn't exist. Perhaps we haven't looked in enough places. There is one thread on this board that suggests that the weapons that didn't exist in Iraq may have been moved to Syria. It makes me wonder where they'll go next.

 

[Orsorum]

Originally posted by: fwtong
I remember that last year, a bunch of people informed me that the infalliable US intelligence was absolutely, 100% correct, that Bush and Cheney would never lie, everything that America does is right and the world is wrong, and to wait because the weapons of mass destruction would be found. I just needed to be patient, and I was personally assured by several people on this board that they would be found. Can I stop waiting now?

No. Now Bush and Cheney still aren't to blame, because they weren't responsible for the accuracy of their intelligence, and it's not like it matters, because Saddam was a bad bad man and he needed to be taken out anyway.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Let me see.

Nate brings me some facts...
I tell him I don't like some of them...
He tells me they are what they are...
I say lose what I don't like...
What he told me turns out to be fact...
I then blame him for my influence on his reports...

Seem fair to you Nate?


In this scenario, it is I who would be the ass, not him.

So it would be with anyone else.

 

[Witling]

Orsorum, you forgot the part where Bush and Cheney are misinformed by the intelligence services. (And that's sarcasm.)

EDITED: On the reread, maybe you didn't forget that part.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: fwtong
I remember that last year, a bunch of people informed me that the infalliable US intelligence was absolutely, 100% correct, that Bush and Cheney would never lie, everything that America does is right and the world is wrong, and to wait because the weapons of mass destruction would be found. I just needed to be patient, and I was personally assured by several people on this board that they would be found. Can I stop waiting now?

No, you must continue waiting and tell your children to wait as well. Iraq is huge, the weapons are there, though they may not be found for decades.

 

[Orsorum]

Originally posted by: WinstonSmith
Let me see.

Nate brings me some facts...
I tell him I don't like some of them...
He tells me they are what they are...
I say lose what I don't like...
What he told me turns out to be fact...
I then blame him for my influence on his reports...

Seem fair to you Nate?


In this scenario, it is I who would be the ass, not him.

So it would be with anyone else.

Unless you're the president of the United States, and a Republican, and you have an agenda to fulfill.

If Clinton had done this he would have been crucified by Dari, charrison, ckg and the other budding neocons. Although I mustn't be too rude to charrison and ckg, I respect them a great deal.

 

[Gaard]

If Clinton had done this he would have been crucified by Dari, charrison, ckg and the other budding neocons. Although I mustn't be too rude to charrison and ckg, I respect them a great deal.


LOL

Poor Dari

 

[Orsorum]

Originally posted by: Gaard
If Clinton had done this he would have been crucified by Dari, charrison, ckg and the other budding neocons. Although I mustn't be too rude to charrison and ckg, I respect them a great deal.


LOL

Poor Dari

I have no specific malice against him, he just comes off as a bit too ascerbic in his posts. I also don't have as much contact with him as I do with charrison and ckg.

Besides, something tells me he couldn't care less what I think about him.

Cheers!
Nate

 

[tcsenter]

During the entire run-up to war the State Departments intelligence reports in regards to WMD and post Saddam Iraq was consistantly ignored and ridiculed. A prominent conservative author even wrote a book describing the State Department as an unfriendly obstacle that might be better off nuked.

I had many a discussion on this forum with people who were ridiculing the State Departments assessments which have been proven correct?

Perhaps you could refresh my memory. Which State Department intelligence reports would those have been?

The ones concerning a couple specific reports of Iraq's activities to procure or develop WMD but did not dispute or even question the general assumption Iraq was attempting to procure or develop WMD? Or the ones that advocated Iraq does not possess nor is it attempting to rebuild its WMD programs?

My recollection may be a bit hazey, but I seem to remember a couple of the former and none of the latter.

 

[nutxo]

Originally posted by: fwtong
I remember that last year, a bunch of people informed me that the infalliable US intelligence was absolutely, 100% correct, that Bush and Cheney would never lie, everything that America does is right and the world is wrong, and to wait because the weapons of mass destruction would be found. I just needed to be patient, and I was personally assured by several people on this board that they would be found. Can I stop waiting now?

No, you people waiting are doing it wrong.

PLease hold your breath until they find em