Why unemployment is high in some parts of Michigan

rudeguy

Lifer
Dec 27, 2001
47,351
14
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This is a great article on the state of the State of Michigan. It helps explain the two sides of the state and how one is prospering while the other is bankrupt. Detroit is not Michigan and Michigan is not Detroit.

http://blog.heritage.org/2014/02/09/unemployment-high-parts-michigan/

Bruce Los, vice president of Gentex Corp., a $1.2 billion manufacturing company located in tiny Zeeland, Mich. (population 5,508), often hosts executives from foreign auto companies like BMW, Nissan and Toyota With 4,000 employees and a state-of-the-art facility, Gentex makes some of the world’s most advanced rearview mirrors, with camera-based driver assistance. After touring the plant, the foreign executives’ reaction is always one of amazement: “They say, ‘this isn’t at all like the Detroit we’ve read about and see on TV,’ ” Mr. Los says, laughing.
No, not even close. But the image of bankrupt Detroit is a daunting public-relations challenge here in western Michigan—a region of about one million people that curls around the eastern shore of Lake Michigan. When I met recently with business leaders in Grand Rapids, the unofficial capital of western Michigan, I heard the same refrain again and again: “Detroit is not Michigan. And Michigan isn’t Detroit.”
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The Motor City’s meltdown has overshadowed the muscular economic recovery in this region, whose success reflects a manufacturing and technology renaissance. Congress’s Joint Economic Committee reports that manufacturers created 600,000 new jobs in 2013, and western Michigan is one of the places where they’re sprouting the fastest.
The state overall is in the midst of a broad-based economic recovery. According to a 2013 study of Bureau of Labor Statistics data by the state’s Mackinac Center for Public Policy, Michigan has created more than a quarter-million jobs since the official start of the U.S. economic recovery in June 2009—a 7% increase that ranks fifth best in the nation.
Outsiders might attribute the state’s turnaround to the federal auto bailouts—President Obama does—but that’s a small part of the story. This is a healthy, diversified recovery. According to Mackinac’s study, only about 4% of Michigan’s four million jobs are auto-related. Even those jobs are at least as dependent on sales to Honda, Toyota and Mercedes as they are on the sales to GM and Chrysler. International trade is now a big net plus for Michigan. Light manufacturing, information technology and health care have all seen strong job growth.
Some of the credit goes to Republican Gov. Rick Snyder, a low-key, no-nonsense leader who has cut business taxes and shaved spending to balance the highly indebted state budget he inherited. Just over a year ago he signed a right-to-work law that sent a signal to the world that the state was no longer politically captive to unions.
While the unemployment rate at the end of 2013 in Detroit was a sky-high 15.1%, in the Grand Rapids metro area it was just under 6%. Jerry Zandstra, president of Inno-Versity LLC, a Lowell, Mich.-based firm that produces manufacturing training films, says the region needs “more trained engineers, technicians and tradesmen” to meet the demand from thriving local companies.
He adds that Michigan has benefited enormously from America’s energy drilling boom that has lowered power costs. Cheap natural gas drilled from the nearby Marcellus Shale is also used as a production feed stock for chemicals and other manufactured products.
This area has long been known for its productive agriculture, landmark companies like Amway, Steelcase and Herman Miller, and world-class medical facilities such as the Van Andel Research Institute along the “Medical Miracle Mile” off I-96 in Grand Rapids.
Still, the region is not fully independent of the boom-and-bust cycles of the domestic auto industry. Many of the local business owners I met grimace when recalling the 30%-50% crash in factory orders during the crisis years of 2008-10.
Fred Keller, president of Cascade Engineering, which employs more than 1,000 workers assembling truck and auto parts, recalls how the more senior factory workers volunteered to take lower pay and a cut in hours during the depths of the recession to avoid the misery of layoffs of younger workers with families to support. Others logged extra hours without pay to help pull their employers through the darkest hours of the crisis.
This workers-united attitude would rarely be seen in a United Auto Workers plant. But unions are scarce in this part of the state, and that may be a key to its success. Collecting unemployment benefits and welfare is still frowned upon—and the notion in Washington that handouts for doing nothing are an economic “stimulus” draws hearty laughs.
Gentex, with its 4,000 employees, is a corporate anchor in the region. The company’s skilled workers operate tens of millions of dollars in state-of-the art machinery. The brain center of the facility is a lab with physicists, chemists and designers who are constantly developing new technologies, such as high-tech dimming windows for airplanes, a new Gentex product line. The company owns more than 600 patents.
But Gentex, like most of the state’s biggest employers, has had its share of struggles. Fred Bauer, the company’s founder and CEO, remembers that when he opened for business in 1974 the office was across the street from a graveyard. “Believe me, there were many times we thought we would end up buried in that cemetery,” he says.
The tenacity of Gentex to survive the hard times and find a way to flourish is symbolic of the never-say-die spirit of this region. Those who complain that “Americans don’t make anything anymore” haven’t been to western Michigan, where some of the highest-quality manufactured products in the world are shipped world-wide. That’s the big unheralded recovery story in Michigan, and it’s happening nearly everywhere in the state—outside of Detroit.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
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A blog from the Heritage Foundation is a good way to read some propaganda, if that's what you're going for.
 

rudeguy

Lifer
Dec 27, 2001
47,351
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A blog from the Heritage Foundation is a good way to read some propaganda, if that's what you're going for.

Did you actually read it? Or did you just come in here to thread crap?

If you would pull your head out of your ass for 5 seconds, you would see there is more to the world than your partisan bullshit. Go jerk off to a picture of Obama and stay out of my thread.
 

Jimzz

Diamond Member
Oct 23, 2012
4,399
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Did you actually read it? Or did you just come in here to thread crap?

If you would pull your head out of your ass for 5 seconds, you would see there is more to the world than your partisan bullshit. Go jerk off to a picture of Obama and stay out of my thread.


I read it, reads like an fluff PR spreadsheet. They just forgot to add synergy and bootstraps to hit the full effect, but close.
 
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boomerang

Lifer
Jun 19, 2000
18,883
641
126
After touring the plant, the foreign executives’ reaction is always one of amazement: “They say, ‘this isn’t at all like the Detroit we’ve read about and see on TV,’ ” Mr. Los says, laughing.
Great story rudeguy. Imagine how much more could be accomplished without Detroit hanging around the necks of the state. The state has got to devote a lot of PR resources to overcoming the image Detroit has cast on the state. I don't know what the answer for Detroit is but I sometimes think there should be a time limit imposed before the bulldozers start up. Devote x amount of time and x amount of money to the city and if that doesn't work, level it and wait for the economy to turn around and the entrepreneur's to take over. Detroit started out as a lot of undeveloped land next to a river and grew to what it was at its pinnacle. Level it, start over and see if it happens again may be the only recourse.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
88,135
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Did you actually read it? Or did you just come in here to thread crap?

If you would pull your head out of your ass for 5 seconds, you would see there is more to the world than your partisan bullshit. Go jerk off to a picture of Obama and stay out of my thread.

Nope, definitely read it.

What's odd is that you're complaining about 'partisan bullshit' while linking to a blog post from the Heritage Foundation, which is a highly partisan, extreme right wing think tank. It's run by fucking Jim DeMint for christ's sake.

Do you not see the irony in complaining about partisanship while linking to that?

Once you escape the right wing bubble you'll see there's more to the world than the caricature that unprincipled and dishonest people are trying to get you to buy into. The first step in doing that is recognizing unprincipled and dishonest sources for what they are. I'd suggest starting with the Heritage Foundation.
 

nickbits

Diamond Member
Mar 10, 2008
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Detroit is fine if you have skills that are useful. We always have duffucult time finding new hires.
 

Anarchist420

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Feb 13, 2010
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this is the first i have heard that detroit wasnt doing fine without statism. has detroit regressed since the u.s.g. started promoting a bailout?

i am guessing if it has, then the real problem is the Detroit city council's desire to borrow more and keep taxes high in the future (otherwise they would just sell off public property and cancel the debt for lower taxes). i am not sure about this current fiscal year, but the city i live in has balanced the budget for at least the three consecutive FYs before this current one while continuing to pay interest on the debt... that's not good.
 

rudeguy

Lifer
Dec 27, 2001
47,351
14
61
Detroit is fine if you have skills that are useful. We always have duffucult time finding new hires.

I can tell you that its the same situation on the West Side. But the article was about how SW MI avoided the really bad stuff that Detroit wandered in.
 

rudeguy

Lifer
Dec 27, 2001
47,351
14
61
Nope, definitely read it.

What's odd is that you're complaining about 'partisan bullshit' while linking to a blog post from the Heritage Foundation, which is a highly partisan, extreme right wing think tank. It's run by fucking Jim DeMint for christ's sake.

Do you not see the irony in complaining about partisanship while linking to that?

Once you escape the right wing bubble you'll see there's more to the world than the caricature that unprincipled and dishonest people are trying to get you to buy into. The first step in doing that is recognizing unprincipled and dishonest sources for what they are. I'd suggest starting with the Heritage Foundation.

Do you dispute anything that the article said?
Do you have any intelligent input to add?
Any? Anything? Maybe you flew over Michigan once and saw a lake? Not even that?

Shoo troll shoo
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
88,135
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Do you dispute anything that the article said?
Do you have any intelligent input to add?
Any? Anything? Maybe you flew over Michigan once and saw a lake? Not even that?

Shoo troll shoo

What is to dispute? The article is anecdotal nonsense made to appeal to the faithful.

This is the normal output of highly partisan advocacy organizations like heritage.
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
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Nope, definitely read it.

What's odd is that you're complaining about 'partisan bullshit' while linking to a blog post from the Heritage Foundation, which is a highly partisan, extreme right wing think tank. It's run by fucking Jim DeMint for christ's sake.

Do you not see the irony in complaining about partisanship while linking to that?

Once you escape the right wing bubble you'll see there's more to the world than the caricature that unprincipled and dishonest people are trying to get you to buy into. The first step in doing that is recognizing unprincipled and dishonest sources for what they are. I'd suggest starting with the Heritage Foundation.

Fine, it's a partisan source. That makes no difference to whether the basic point of the article is valid. No matter what your partisan views, a fair person will be the first to recognize truth when he sees it no matter who speaks it. And out here in the land of reality it's obvious that Detroit is struggling while other areas of Michigan are doing comparatively better. Feel free to provide your own thesis about why that is if you like, but it adds no value whatsoever for you to just to badmouth the article source.
 

boomerang

Lifer
Jun 19, 2000
18,883
641
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Fine, it's a partisan source. That makes no difference to whether the basic point of the article is valid. No matter what your partisan views, a fair person will be the first to recognize truth when he sees it no matter who speaks it. And out here in the land of reality it's obvious that Detroit is struggling while other areas of Michigan are doing comparatively better. Feel free to provide your own thesis about why that is if you like, but it adds no value whatsoever for you to just to badmouth the article source.
While I admire your patience with him I do hope you understand that everything you said fell on deaf ears. eskimospy rarely gets into specifics. He's more into dictating how people should think. Which is exactly what his posts in this thread reflect. He has an opinion of himself that is quite lofty.

He is a powerless authoritarian because he attempts to control anonymous people on an internet forum. Without Google, he would appear to be as impotent as he is in real life. His knowledge is gleaned from the internet. He cannot address the points in the article until he has had time to research his point of view but in the meantime he is content to dismiss the information and anyone who comments on in a manner he finds distasteful with his pseudo-intellect. He's what my father would have called a pompous ass. I just call him a dickhead.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
88,135
55,661
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Fine, it's a partisan source. That makes no difference to whether the basic point of the article is valid. No matter what your partisan views, a fair person will be the first to recognize truth when he sees it no matter who speaks it. And out here in the land of reality it's obvious that Detroit is struggling while other areas of Michigan are doing comparatively better. Feel free to provide your own thesis about why that is if you like, but it adds no value whatsoever for you to just to badmouth the article source.

Of course the source matters. If someone provided a link from the North Korean government about how the economy in North Korea was fabulous you would be perfectly within the boundaries of normal conversation to dismiss it, as the source is not credible. While Heritage is of course nowhere near the North Koreans, it is still simply not a credible source.

Additionally, the blog post doesn't really do anything other than provide a few anecdotes and make a causal leap without evidence. It doesn't say anything that's even open to refutation because it isn't making much of a real argument.
 

jhbball

Platinum Member
Mar 20, 2002
2,917
23
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While I admire your patience with him I do hope you understand that everything you said fell on deaf ears. eskimospy rarely gets into specifics. He's more into dictating how people should think. Which is exactly what his posts in this thread reflect. He has an opinion of himself that is quite lofty.

He is a powerless authoritarian because he attempts to control anonymous people on an internet forum. Without Google, he would appear to be as impotent as he is in real life. His knowledge is gleaned from the internet. He cannot address the points in the article until he has had time to research his point of view but in the meantime he is content to dismiss the information and anyone who comments on in a manner he finds distasteful with his pseudo-intellect. He's what my father would have called a pompous ass. I just call him a dickhead.

UH OH. We have a hick trash gym owner (lol) over here.
 

Exterous

Super Moderator
Jun 20, 2006
20,591
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But the article was about how SW MI avoided the really bad stuff that Detroit wandered in.

For the most part I agree with you but with one very large caveat:
Most areas of Michigan still have a serious problem with unfunded pension liabilities. GR hit the highest amount yet in 2013. I worry that too many are playing kick the can with that issue
 

rudeguy

Lifer
Dec 27, 2001
47,351
14
61
For the most part I agree with you but with one very large caveat:
Most areas of Michigan still have a serious problem with unfunded pension liabilities. GR hit the highest amount yet in 2013. I worry that too many are playing kick the can with that issue

I 100% agree. Pensions are just trouble waiting to happen. Any time you stockpile money and give politicians access to it, its not going to end well.

Also: our mayor is afraid of citizens with guns. That is the one thing that really worries me right now.
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
1,013
126
Of course the source matters. If someone provided a link from the North Korean government about how the economy in North Korea was fabulous you would be perfectly within the boundaries of normal conversation to dismiss it, as the source is not credible. While Heritage is of course nowhere near the North Koreans, it is still simply not a credible source.

Additionally, the blog post doesn't really do anything other than provide a few anecdotes and make a causal leap without evidence. It doesn't say anything that's even open to refutation because it isn't making much of a real argument.

Attacking the source is not a subsitute for a response. Let's try again - it's a factual statement that unemployment in Detroit is higher than other parts of the state. That's true no matter who says it or how credible you judge the source, up to and including the North Korean propaganda ministry.

The article postulates why they think that is, so let's examine their arguments. First mentioned were state business tax cuts, balanced state budget, and state right-to-work laws; but those should impact Detroit and the rest of the state relatively equally. Next was the Obama auto company bailouts; but those should have been of greater benefit to Detroit. The bailout benefit was likely netted out by the third factors (energy production and agriculture), which would benefit the rest of the state more than Detroit.

So with that disposed of, the article doesn't provide any clear cut answers why Detroit lags the rest of the state WRT unemployment. So let's get on with our own analysis. Why do you, Eskimospy, feel that employment lags in Detroit vs. the rest of the state? Forget what the article said, I want to hear what *you* say.