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Why U.S. Is Running Out of Gas

burnedout

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 1999
6,249
2
0
TIME magazine

"Inflated oil prices and natural gas shortages are wiping out jobs and savings, thanks to three decades of bungled energy policy. Get ready for more bungling"
Somewhat long, but nevertheless, an alarming read concerning the shortsightedness of our respective national energy policies through the years up until the present. I sincerely hope we can integrate alternative energy sources into our socieity before too much longer.

So is our current situation as bleak as the article indicates? What is your take on the energy situation? Are we screwed?

While we are at it: Anything into oil? Remember this one? Seems like an awesome program. Not much in the way of results from that company's website since April.

 

Piano Man

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2000
3,370
0
76
I believe the UK just planned a Wind Farm project that will power 15% of all their homes. The US needs to get its act together, but first, the guys who prevent alt fuels from happening need to be removed.
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: Piano Man
I believe the UK just planned a Wind Farm project that will power 15% of all their homes. The US needs to get its act together, but first, the guys who prevent alt fuels from happening need to be removed.
MIght want to talk to Kenedy and kerry about the windfarm they dont want because it is in their backyard. Or the windfarms kill birds. Windfarms have great potential for suplimental power.
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: burnedout
TIME magazine

"Inflated oil prices and natural gas shortages are wiping out jobs and savings, thanks to three decades of bungled energy policy. Get ready for more bungling"
Somewhat long, but nevertheless, an alarming read concerning the shortsightedness of our respective national energy policies through the years up until the present. I sincerely hope we can integrate alternative energy sources into our socieity before too much longer.

So is our current situation as bleak as the article indicates? What is your take on the energy situation? Are we screwed?

While we are at it: Anything into oil? Remember this one? Seems like an awesome program. Not much in the way of results from that company's website since April.
Yes the clean air act had the unintended side effect of creating a natural gas shortage. Coal plants were replaced with natural gas turbines. Demand for natural gas went way up. Environmentalist have blocked many attempts to get more oil and gas on our soil.
Environmentalist have also blocked nuclear power. Nuclear power designs are much better and safer than the designs of 30 years ago.
More money needs to be put into clean coal research as the industry is not far from practical liquidified coal which burns almost as clean as natural gas.

Tax credits should be offered to home owners and business who upgrade their lighting and hvac systems. There is much this nation could do to make our energy supply better.

 

zephyrprime

Diamond Member
Feb 18, 2001
7,506
1
81
When I was hearing about the deployment of conbined cycle electrical generators in the past few years to generate electricity I thought, "what the heck? Natural gas is too precious to use for generating electricity!" And now I've been proven right! Whoo hoo for me! Now I have a huge NG bill this Minnesota winter to look forward to. Nuts.

While I'm on the record, let me just say that I doubt that we'll be driving any of Bushes much vaunted hydrogen cars for a long long time. And they're never gonna be able to liquify coal cost effectively.

The only 2 viable power sources we have in the US that can grow are wind and nuclear. Bush cut funding on wind but gave mucho $$$ for nuclear (much more than he did for hydrogen according to the article.)

Oh well. I believe the free market will be able to bring wind to market anyway.
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: zephyrprime
When I was hearing about the deployment of conbined cycle electrical generators in the past few years to generate electricity I thought, "what the heck? Natural gas is too precious to use for generating electricity!" And now I've been proven right! Whoo hoo for me! Now I have a huge NG bill this Minnesota winter to look forward to. Nuts.

While I'm on the record, let me just say that I doubt that we'll be driving any of Bushes much vaunted hydrogen cars for a long long time. And they're never gonna be able to liquify coal cost effectively.

The only 2 viable power sources we have in the US that can grow are wind and nuclear. Bush cut funding on wind but gave mucho $$$ for nuclear (much more than he did for hydrogen according to the article.)

Oh well. I believe in the free market anyway.
IF congress passes the clear skies another 2 billion will get thrown at coal technology. The 2 billion that clean air act got us technology that gets coal much cleaner.
 

drewshin

Golden Member
Dec 14, 1999
1,464
0
0
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: Piano Man
I believe the UK just planned a Wind Farm project that will power 15% of all their homes. The US needs to get its act together, but first, the guys who prevent alt fuels from happening need to be removed.
MIght want to talk to Kenedy and kerry about the windfarm they dont want because it is in their backyard. Or the windfarms kill birds. Windfarms have great potential for suplimental power.
whining drivel. im sure they are both for windfarms, but who WOULD want them in their backyard? here in california, the ones i've seen are not near any populated area, outside the entrance to palm springs (not visible from palm springs though), and on the 5 freeway before you get into the bay area (rolling hills around as far as can be seen).

 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: drewshin
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: Piano Man
I believe the UK just planned a Wind Farm project that will power 15% of all their homes. The US needs to get its act together, but first, the guys who prevent alt fuels from happening need to be removed.
MIght want to talk to Kenedy and kerry about the windfarm they dont want because it is in their backyard. Or the windfarms kill birds. Windfarms have great potential for suplimental power.
whining drivel. im sure they are both for windfarms, but who WOULD want them in their backyard? here in california, the ones i've seen are not near any populated area, outside the entrance to palm springs (not visible from palm springs though), and on the 5 freeway before you get into the bay area (rolling hills around as far as can be seen).
They be in alot of back yards (literally) in northwestern Iowa. ;)

CkG
 

Lonyo

Lifer
Aug 10, 2002
21,939
6
81
Originally posted by: drewshin
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: Piano Man
I believe the UK just planned a Wind Farm project that will power 15% of all their homes. The US needs to get its act together, but first, the guys who prevent alt fuels from happening need to be removed.
MIght want to talk to Kenedy and kerry about the windfarm they dont want because it is in their backyard. Or the windfarms kill birds. Windfarms have great potential for suplimental power.
whining drivel. im sure they are both for windfarms, but who WOULD want them in their backyard? here in california, the ones i've seen are not near any populated area, outside the entrance to palm springs (not visible from palm springs though), and on the 5 freeway before you get into the bay area (rolling hills around as far as can be seen).
The UK Windfarm project is set to be built offshore so it won't be in anyones back yard. The US has a costline too.
 

burnedout

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 1999
6,249
2
0
Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
Where did the Shale Oil Capacity go, it was alledged to be a tremendous resource.
Oil Shale
Very interesting article there, Capt'n.

"By far the largest known deposit is the Green River oil shale in western United States which contains a total estimated resource of nearly 1.5 trillion barrels. In Colorado alone, the total resource reaches one trillion barrels of oil."
Recovery costs too much maybe?

 

CaptnKirk

Lifer
Jul 25, 2002
10,054
0
71
We did a rubble block burn catalyst analysis where the deposits were selectively drilled and rubbled
by explosive charges, then the (for lack of a better term) "Retort" was fired, or set ablaze on top
in a controled burn situation under oxygen deprivation. Resulting heat drove the 'oil" content out of the
rock rubble and it was collected in the bottom of the retort chambers, in liquid form.
This oil-like material lacks the Hydrogenation that makes it a petrol substance, but it can be
added by heating it to around 900 F & infusing it with water. It takes in the hydrogen and
releases the oxygen from the water molecule.

Occidental's Oil Shale Experiment

Quite cost effective, but I don't think that Big Oil wanted an alternate to their present methods yet.
In the future as supplies dwindle, Shale Oil would be worth more at a higher proffit margin.

By the way - the deposit in Colorado is twice as much oil as there is known to be in all Arab countries - combined.
 

KMurphy

Golden Member
May 16, 2000
1,014
0
0
The UK is planning to have 10% of their energy provided by wind only to meet the Kyoto requirements in the next 10--15 years. They are also constructing the largest LNG terminal on the planet to import liquified natrual gas from any country that can export it.

Japan is in a real bad way energy wise. They must have over 50% of their energy needs provided by nuclear reactors over the next ten years. They are begging Russia to build a gas pipeline to Japan instead of China. Japan is also in talks with Iran to secure oil development in that country as well.

We have plenty of resources, but there are a few reasons why it is not available.
1. The gov pays subsidies to keep wells capped to secure what we still have in the ground.
2. We did not develop the infrastructure to transport natural gas during the good years. Energy companies were more concerned about what Wall Street thought in the short term than providing means to meet future demand.
3. Gov beuracracy and enviro weenies have made development in this country non-competitive with other oil and oil equivalent producing countries.
4. Whenever we start seriously persuing alternatives, OPEC lowers the cost of oil to the point where alternatives are too costly. This will continue until OPEC siezes to exist or oil runs out.

Renewable energy sources globally will not amount to more than 5% of total energy requirements for at least the next 20 years. The wind doesn't always blow and the sun doesn't always shine which means renewables are not dependable. They can only boost the grid, not support it. Oil is too cheap and easy to get at regardless of subsidies for renewable sources and Kyoto pipe dreams. People are consumers, not conservers. The countries that ratified the Kyoto Protocol are balking now because they are discovering the serious costs associated with meeting that target. The primary way that countries are meeting targets is by mothballing their power plants and becoming net importers of energy. They are also trading pollution credits around which really defeats the purpose because it shifts pollution generation from one point to another.

This country can't survive without the core manufacturing jobs keeping people employed. It is extremely lucrative to shift operations overseas where natural gas is still cheap. Jobs are leaving by the hundreds now and if things don't change soon they will leave by the thousands leaving many unemployed people behind. Once the core manufacturing population is unemployed, the entertainment and service industries will suffer because there will be no money left to pay their wages.

The situation is not good and it won't improve fast either. The global society is too entrenched in energy consumption with any minor upset in equilibrium causing major economic consequences.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,912
44
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
This is Natural Gas but related anyway.

Got my first bill yesterday at the new nearly $1 per therm rate up from 79 cents. Since we basically have the gas off except for some cooking on the stove, we used 1 lousy therm.

How much do you think the bill was for?

$23 for that 1 therm.

$15 in delivery charges,
$5 in account service fees,
$2 in tax
and the $1 for the therm of gas.

Can you imagine what the bill in the winter will be? Be prepared for $600 to $2,500 per month Natural Gas Bills. Just 30 therms will be at least $690 which is close to our Mortgage payment , people with the super big homes around Atlanta that can use up to 100 therms will be socked with bills higher than their Mortgage payments.

No sense switching to any of the 17 Gas Marketers in the State which would cost $50 to switch, they are all within a penny or two of each other.
Isn't de-regulated Gas great?
 

Lucky

Lifer
Nov 26, 2000
13,126
1
0
Originally posted by: drewshin
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: Piano Man
I believe the UK just planned a Wind Farm project that will power 15% of all their homes. The US needs to get its act together, but first, the guys who prevent alt fuels from happening need to be removed.
MIght want to talk to Kenedy and kerry about the windfarm they dont want because it is in their backyard. Or the windfarms kill birds. Windfarms have great potential for suplimental power.
whining drivel. im sure they are both for windfarms, but who WOULD want them in their backyard? here in california, the ones i've seen are not near any populated area, outside the entrance to palm springs (not visible from palm springs though), and on the 5 freeway before you get into the bay area (rolling hills around as far as can be seen).
Actually they arent even really in their backyard. They are (or rather, would be) six miles offshore and (would) appear as 1/2 inch tall in the horizon with the naked eye.

 

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