Why Trump Envies Dictators

[Moonbeam]

Provide actual evidence that I hate myself or that the vast majority of people engage self-hated. Otherwise quit sprouting nonsense.

Perhaps you mistake me for a person who is in an argument who wants to win. That is not what I think is happening at all. The way I see it is that I have a gift that was also one that was given to me. I used to inhabit a mental space that was filled with black hopelessness. I hurt psychologically and existentially with open and gushing wounds. I put myself in that place because I wanted proof that life has meaning and I tore apart every solution to that suffering that Western culture offered me. I read every philosophy I could and threw them all in the trash as lies people tell themselves based on unconsciously assumptions I had dismissed within myself as lies. The I chanced upon Zen and a funny thing happened. All my suffering ended late one night when the wind hit the house I was in and wakened me from a deep state of analysis I was in as to the root of my suffering. In just an instant I went from the deepest despair to complete relaxation be in a split second I knew everything. I defeated the nothing that held me in its grip but I was no more conscious of how I got to be who I was then I was before that event.

I met a man who radiated the kind of peace I had experienced for an instant and he assured me he could help me. Do you know what it is like to be deeply wounded, to suffer from pain you do not understand and to be offered help by somebody deeply and obviously at peace. He was a psychologist who had had years of intense psychotherapy and had relived his life and knew what he felt at a level that he said he was 99.999 percent sure he had found and cured himself. He said that as a very successful man with a perfect marriage and kids money and profession, that one of his patients had given him an insight that like her he might hate himself which he discovered he did. He said we hate ourselves, don't know it, don't want to know it, and don't want to know we don't want to know it. I found out myself in therapy with him that he was right but naturally, that is my opinion.

So what is the point? Why do I call this a gift? I used to be normal. I used to feel I couldn't possibly hate myself but there were a lot of people I did hate. I hated people who are cruel and hurt others especially children who are innocent. I would blame others for the pain I felt they caused me. Now I know what lies behind my realization that life is totally without meaning because there is no need. It is because all suffering is of the ego, the self we imagine ourselves to be with all the unconscious assumptions we make about what it takes to make that ego happy.

I blame everybody for everything, just like any normal person, but I know I am lying to myself. I can't feed that belief with conviction. I am free of being that much of a machine. I wander through life tossed and turned by every passing slight but I can't feed those beliefs. I am a machine who is trapped as a machine. I let go of conviction that my emotional states are either logical or justified. I am a monster but I don't have to feed it by believing it's real. There is within us something beneath the waves that is deep. I don't believe, I know, and I don't need you to know if you don't want to know it. I can say that life where I am today seems a lot better than what I used to experience. I am a nobody who is just fine with that.
I was going to quote you a Zen story. I will do so now:

https://blog.buddhagroove.com/zen-story-steal-the-moon/

 

[whm1974]

Would you expect his supposition to be rigidly demonstrable by scientific inquiry? I believe he has suggested a way to test the hypothesis for yourself. Not a way I imagine anyone would choose with explicit goal of discovering how they hate themselves.

I think is he is trying to get me(and others) to assume that I hate myself and try tricking myself into actually believing that I do.

I'm putting him in the same boat with those Christians who try to convince me to "Fake it until I Believe it".

 

[interchange]

I think is he is trying to get me(and others) to assume that I hate myself and try tricking myself into actually believing that I do.

I'm putting him in the same boat with those Christians who try to convince me to "Fake it until I Believe it".

How could someone trick you into believing you hate yourself? Seems like quite a feat. Not sure what the benefit of doing so would be, either.

 

[realibrad]

Would you expect his supposition to be rigidly demonstrable by scientific inquiry? I believe he has suggested a way to test the hypothesis for yourself. Not a way I imagine anyone would choose with explicit goal of discovering how they hate themselves.

Do you believe he has provided any meaningful advise on how to recognize self hate?

 

[realibrad]

How could someone trick you into believing you hate yourself? Seems like quite a feat. Not sure what the benefit of doing so would be, either.

I imagine it's very similar to how you can convince a young man to blow himself up in the name of a god. I'm sure you are well aware of cognitive dissonance.

 

[whm1974]

How could someone trick you into believing you hate yourself? Seems like quite a feat. Not sure what the benefit of doing so would be, either.

Well it is similar to how the Roman Catholic Church indoctrinates Catholics into feeling strong guilt simply for being human.

 

[Jhhnn]

I see Trump as the inevitable conclusion of modern politics. Our institutions have been under attack for a long time.

As for a world where reality would not be accessible, well, I would say we already do it to ourselves. Most people prefer an echo-chamber of ideas. The reason so many of the institutions are under attack is because people disagree with the reality they push.

So, Trump is the product of what society has created. Its our collective fault.

That's a helluva apologism of bothsiderism for what has been decades of GOP disinformation & agitprop.

Conservatives wage this culture war against the rest of us because they're the victims of it.

 

[interchange]

Do you believe he has provided any meaningful advise on how to recognize self hate?

Sure. He did recommend intensive psychotherapy.

 

[whm1974]

Sure. He did recommend intensive psychotherapy.

Do my behaviors warrant intensive psychotherapy?

 

[interchange]

Do my behaviors warrant intensive psychotherapy?

There's (almost) not a person alive who couldn't gain something from intensive psychotherapy. If anything, it's the most mentality ill (or intellectually disabled) who have the least to gain and the most potential risk. It's not a matter of "warranted". There are only a handful of people I've treated where I felt an intense psychoanalytically oriented exploration was a critical intervention for the sake of treating a specifically diagnosed problem that couldn't be adequately addressed through different means.

 

[realibrad]

There's (almost) not a person alive who couldn't gain something from intensive psychotherapy. If anything, it's the most mentality ill (or intellectually disabled) who have the least to gain and the most potential risk. It's not a matter of "warranted". There are only a handful of people I've treated where I felt an intense psychoanalytically oriented exploration was a critical intervention for the sake of treating a specifically diagnosed problem that couldn't be adequately addressed through different means.

The question was in the context of discovering self hate because the average person, as posited by moon, hates themselves. Do you see anywhere close to enough evidence to agree that whm has self hate which is causing himself to do harm? If so, can you explain to use what it is that you see and how we could come to see it as well?

 

[Moonbeam]

Do you believe he has provided any meaningful advise on how to recognize self hate?

Are you here intentionally changing the nature of your demands? I thought you asked me to prove to you that you hate yourself. That is not at all the same question as to how to recognize your own self hate. In the former case, you are asking for a logical argument and, as I said, I have no need or desire to partake of such an aim. I am not trying to prove anything. I believe, like my former self, the self who had no idea he or she could be motivated by unconscious feelings, naturally must suffer from those feelings because those feelings are unconsciously assumed to be real. If you unconsciously feel you are worthless but are unaware that you feel that, it will mean that at the deepest level, in the unconscious, you will suffer from those feelings because they are at core for your reality. They are the real truth for you that it is what you really believe. I can't prove that to you. You can only know that truth if you allow yourself via hard work to actually experience what you really feel. My aim in telling you that you hate yourself is because it is actually a lie. There is nothing really wrong with you except for the presence of that unconscious belief. I am simply telling you what the real enemy is because we hide that truth from ourselves. You fear I am trying to indoctrinate you to believe there is something wrong with you. I am saying all your fear of that is that you have already been so indoctrinated and you don't want to feel the pain of that fact. You don't want to relive the memories that caused you to hate who you were.

Recognizing ones self hate is something that you look out for when you have come to the realization that your real enemy is within you, your own belief in the lie that you are worthless. That part is easy. We project our inner reality, our unconscious feelings about ourselves out there on the world. Are you feeling depressed. Actually that is the absence of feeling much of anything, the absence of feeling alive. Do you feel sad. Feel it. It will take you to tears. Those tears will begin to have a taste, a saltiness you have experienced before. Let that sadness out, experience it and eventually you will come to anger, then rage, that you suffer. You will find that this rage very cathartic and freeing of the armor that keeps you from feeling anything. We have been profoundly conditioned not to express it because it creates a will toward violence. But to feel what you feel for the sake of self exploration in a therapeutic situation is not the same as acting out violence and rage at other people. The point of feeling what you feel is that when you do it right and to the fullest extent that you feel it, you will be back to the time in memory when you first felt it. You will know what it means to relive traumatic events and you will be able to bring the adult who you now are to the comfort of that suffering child. You will awaken to grief and grief for oneself is a form of self love. You will know where you have been and who you are. You will know the lies you had to believe to survive.

So my aim is to suggest that while you may not know you suffer from self hate, you will suffer even less if you know that you do believe in something you think is truth that is actually a lie. The knowledge that we act out our unconscious feelings of inferiority because we believe in lies is a better place to be that to act out those feelings because we don't know we believe them to be true. It removes the certainty that others are to blame for what we feel. It puts the responsibility back where it belongs.

So how is what I am saying not like ISIS or the Catholic Church. I am saying that all negative emotions are based on the unconscious belief in lies and that it is improper to act them our against other people. I am saying that because we do not know we hate ourselves we can be manipulated to project that hatred onto other people by anybody so self hating as to use up the lives of others for the petty rewards of a self flattering ego. I am telling you why we can be manipulated and how to distance oneself from being so manipulated. I am saying we have already been manipulated and that is why we fear that is what others seek to do. I am showing you the bars of an invisible prison. I am telling you why they are invisible. I am also saying that the truth of this can be known be feeling what you already really do feel and are presently unaware that you do. I am saying that the more you get in touch with your self you will open the door to some real surprises. But before you go feeling what you really feel, approach it with the realization that those feelings are just feelings and also that they are lies. Do it in a safe environment and not near open windows.

If you wish I can book you into Moonbeams Magical Mental Health Clinic, where, for a mere 1000 dollars a day I can provide you with a padded cell and a pat on the arm. I know you will be looking for what's in this for me.