Why Trump Envies Dictators

interchange

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
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Consider an alternative reality where American institutions fail. Trump has the government sponsored media he advocated for and shuts down the press he wishes to eradicate. In this world, North Korea has no nuclear program. MBS had nothing to do with the killing of an American journalist. No collusion. The law requires us to separate families at the border. Etc. Trump has shown that he does not desire solving problems. He only desires people believing he has. In reaction to comments that him growing the deficit will cause economic collapse, his response was "I won't be here."

There would still be plenty of us who knew we were being fed loads of bullshit. But what would you think of a world where access to reality didn't exist?
 

whm1974

Diamond Member
Jul 24, 2016
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Consider an alternative reality where American institutions fail. Trump has the government sponsored media he advocated for and shuts down the press he wishes to eradicate. In this world, North Korea has no nuclear program. MBS had nothing to do with the killing of an American journalist. No collusion. The law requires us to separate families at the border. Etc. Trump has shown that he does not desire solving problems. He only desires people believing he has. In reaction to comments that him growing the deficit will cause economic collapse, his response was "I won't be here."

There would still be plenty of us who knew we were being fed loads of bullshit. But what would you think of a world where access to reality didn't exist?
It would be more like out right ignoring reality completely. People will force him out due to self preservation.
 

esquared

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 8, 2000
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I think he envies the dictators because they run their countries as cheeto runs his business empire.
In his business, his word is the (company) law and his word is final. Same with these dictators.

In his small-mindedness, he may have actually thought that he could get things done here as president
trying to run the country in that same manner.

Yes, he is also delusional.
 
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realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
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I see Trump as the inevitable conclusion of modern politics. Our institutions have been under attack for a long time.

As for a world where reality would not be accessible, well, I would say we already do it to ourselves. Most people prefer an echo-chamber of ideas. The reason so many of the institutions are under attack is because people disagree with the reality they push.

So, Trump is the product of what society has created. Its our collective fault.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,671
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I see Trump as the inevitable conclusion of modern politics. Our institutions have been under attack for a long time.

As for a world where reality would not be accessible, well, I would say we already do it to ourselves. Most people prefer an echo-chamber of ideas. The reason so many of the institutions are under attack is because people disagree with the reality they push.

So, Trump is the product of what society has created. Its our collective fault.

What u mean we? I didn’t vote for that prick. His bullshit was easy to spot so no one can be surprised
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,671
28,824
136
Consider an alternative reality where American institutions fail. Trump has the government sponsored media he advocated for and shuts down the press he wishes to eradicate. In this world, North Korea has no nuclear program. MBS had nothing to do with the killing of an American journalist. No collusion. The law requires us to separate families at the border. Etc. Trump has shown that he does not desire solving problems. He only desires people believing he has. In reaction to comments that him growing the deficit will cause economic collapse, his response was "I won't be here."

There would still be plenty of us who knew we were being fed loads of bullshit. But what would you think of a world where access to reality didn't exist?

Not complicated

Personal financial interests ( Russia and Saudis)
The rest, small penis.
 

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
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What u mean we? I didn’t vote for that prick. His bullshit was easy to spot so no one can be surprised

I did not vote for him as well. What I did was believe there was no way that Trump cold win. I thought he would lose the primary for sure and I was wrong. I mocked him as a joke. When he won, I did not reexam my assumptions, I just convinced myself that I was right.

If you believe you have a responsibility to stop Trump now, then you believe you should have had one then too. So my denial of reality is my own fault, and in some way I am partly responsible. The only way I would not be is if I did not think I had a responsibility to stop him now.

So, do you have a responsibility to stop him now?
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
28,678
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It's his need to appear tough and manly, as he associates those qualities with leaders like dictators.

Just heard Kelly might be resigning today, so maybe one less buffer around to curb Dump's affection for Russians and others that manipulate his ignorance and pride. Good times.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,671
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I did not vote for him as well. What I did was believe there was no way that Trump cold win. I thought he would lose the primary for sure and I was wrong. I mocked him as a joke. When he won, I did not reexam my assumptions, I just convinced myself that I was right.

If you believe you have a responsibility to stop Trump now, then you believe you should have had one then too. So my denial of reality is my own fault, and in some way I am partly responsible. The only way I would not be is if I did not think I had a responsibility to stop him now.

So, do you have a responsibility to stop him now?
We all have a responsibility to stop him but some here still support him. Says as much about them as Trump.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,231
6,338
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Consider an alternative reality where American institutions fail. Trump has the government sponsored media he advocated for and shuts down the press he wishes to eradicate. In this world, North Korea has no nuclear program. MBS had nothing to do with the killing of an American journalist. No collusion. The law requires us to separate families at the border. Etc. Trump has shown that he does not desire solving problems. He only desires people believing he has. In reaction to comments that him growing the deficit will cause economic collapse, his response was "I won't be here."

There would still be plenty of us who knew we were being fed loads of bullshit. But what would you think of a world where access to reality didn't exist?
If access to reality did not exist the question as to what I would think of such a reality would not exist. We would have no term for reality, in my opinion.
 

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
126
We all have a responsibility to stop him but some here still support him. Says as much about them as Trump.

Does not change what I said. If you believe you have a responsibility now, you believe you had a responsibility then. If that is true, then, in some way you are also partly responsible. You are not equally responsible when compared to the people that voted.

So, was I wrong like you thought or do you think there is some logic to my original claim?
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,125
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I did not vote for him as well. What I did was believe there was no way that Trump cold win. I thought he would lose the primary for sure and I was wrong. I mocked him as a joke. When he won, I did not reexam my assumptions, I just convinced myself that I was right.

If you believe you have a responsibility to stop Trump now, then you believe you should have had one then too. So my denial of reality is my own fault, and in some way I am partly responsible. The only way I would not be is if I did not think I had a responsibility to stop him now.

So, do you have a responsibility to stop him now?

In the end, all any one citizen can do is vote their conscience, and do so while being properly informed. The properly informed citizen knew exactly who Trump was all along, and as any responsible adult, any responsible human, any true American citizen, voted against the asshole. Any adult knew and did everything they could: voted against that fuckstick.

It is no other way.

The problem, as you suggest, is that such of us incorrectly assumed that there were as many adults in this country that understood just as much, that were responsible enough to inform themselves on the issues, shuffle through the obvious bullshit, and vote accordingly. Yes, many were wrong to trust that their neighbors were responsible American citizens, but what would have done then to prevent what happened? Suspend the law, shut down Fox news and the other ultra-fundy rightwing duplici-sphere outlets, arrest the Trumps for their then-known relationships with foreign antagonists, and force the GOP to select a mature human as candidate? I don't see any other option to make things right, because their mob had long-been gaslighted into subservience at that point.

Since we're in time-travel mode, do we just back to 1964, ensure that Ford tosses Nixon into prison, where he belonged, so that future parties actually learn that there exist real consequences for true crimes against this country and its people? DO we lop off the republican head that ushered in the fundy evangelical nutbags into the center of the party, against all desires of the real intellectual center of the GOP of that time? There are many points at which the GOP has failed this country, again and again and again that inevitably lead to Trump, yes--but at the end of the day all anyone could have done, really, is expect our fellow citizens to think and vote like cognitively-mature adults. We now know that this is not possible, as many are held in thrall by the phantom promises of the rich giving you all their money--if only we charge them less!--of education magically improving, if only we fund it less!--of the climate magically fixing itself, if only we ignore that we are fundamentally doing horrible things to destroy it! etc etc.

The only real disease in this country is the GOP and their morally, economically, philosophically, bankrupt platform. Remove this minority party from power, and get the country back on the track it deserves to be on.
 

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
126
In the end, all any one citizen can do is vote their conscience, and do so while being properly informed. The properly informed citizen knew exactly who Trump was all along, and as any responsible adult, any responsible human, any true American citizen, voted against the asshole. Any adult knew and did everything they could: voted against that fuckstick.

It is no other way.

The problem, as you suggest, is that such of us incorrectly assumed that there were as many adults in this country that understood just as much, that were responsible enough to inform themselves on the issues, shuffle through the obvious bullshit, and vote accordingly. Yes, many were wrong to trust that their neighbors were responsible American citizens, but what would have done then to prevent what happened? Suspend the law, shut down Fox news and the other ultra-fundy rightwing duplici-sphere outlets, arrest the Trumps for their then-known relationships with foreign antagonists, and force the GOP to select a mature human as candidate? I don't see any other option to make things right, because their mob had long-been gaslighted into subservience at that point.

Since we're in time-travel mode, do we just back to 1964, ensure that Ford tosses Nixon into prison, where he belonged, so that future parties actually learn that there exist real consequences for true crimes against this country and its people? DO we lop off the republican head that ushered in the fundy evangelical nutbags into the center of the party, against all desires of the real intellectual center of the GOP of that time? There are many points at which the GOP has failed this country, again and again and again that inevitably lead to Trump, yes--but at the end of the day all anyone could have done, really, is expect our fellow citizens to think and vote like cognitively-mature adults. We now know that this is not possible, as many are held in thrall by the phantom promises of the rich giving you all their money--if only we charge them less!--of education magically improving, if only we fund it less!--of the climate magically fixing itself, if only we ignore that we are fundamentally doing horrible things to destroy it! etc etc.

The only real disease in this country is the GOP and their morally, economically, philosophically, bankrupt platform. Remove this minority party from power, and get the country back on the track it deserves to be on.

That is a lot of a response, but, do you think that what I said was wrong? I disagree there is only voting that you can do before you throw away the rules. People made a joke out of Trump and I think that was our mistake.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,231
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That is a lot of a response, but, do you think that what I said was wrong? I disagree there is only voting that you can do before you throw away the rules. People made a joke out of Trump and I think that was our mistake.
I warned people on this forum that liberals have a brain defect, the arrogance to think conservatives are stupid and that everybody will see it. I warned them that Sanders had a better marriage than Clinton and a better chance to win. My friend spent months before the election warning the Democratic Party that they needed to wake up because Trump would win. You can’t make people see what they don’t want to believe because they always feel that if they lack vision it implies there is something wrong with them. People feel that because they hate themselves. Notice how you can’t hear that?
 

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
126
I warned people on this forum that liberals have a brain defect, the arrogance to think conservatives are stupid and that everybody will see it. I warned them that Sanders had a better marriage than Clinton and a better chance to win. My friend spent months before the election warning the Democratic Party that they needed to wake up because Trump would win. You can’t make people see what they don’t want to believe because they always feel that if they lack vision it implies there is something wrong with them. People feel that because they hate themselves. Notice how you can’t hear that?

Then tell me, why did I change my position?
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,231
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No, I changed my position on Trump because I realized I was wrong.
Aren't the operative words, "I realized". And didn't you do that realizing after Trump won? What the hell good is it to warn people of things they only realize after they are proven wrong? And by the way, you do hate yourself, you just don't know it. :) Humanity is asleep, living in a dream that is a program. No blame can be assigned to machines who have no free will. One can't will oneself to be conscious of what is unconsciously repressing. Freedom means dying to the self. The self we believe ourselves to be does not want that. The only real question, then, is how do we die to the ego in spite of ourselves. Only when the mind reaches the realization of the utter hopelessness of escape does escape become an accident waiting to happen. This is the nature of grace. Its source is other than the ego.
 
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whm1974

Diamond Member
Jul 24, 2016
9,436
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I warned people on this forum that liberals have a brain defect, the arrogance to think conservatives are stupid and that everybody will see it. I warned them that Sanders had a better marriage than Clinton and a better chance to win. My friend spent months before the election warning the Democratic Party that they needed to wake up because Trump would win. You can’t make people see what they don’t want to believe because they always feel that if they lack vision it implies there is something wrong with them. People feel that because they hate themselves. Notice how you can’t hear that?
The average person does not not hate themselves and they have no reason at all to do so. Why would they?
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,231
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The average person does not not hate themselves and they have no reason at all to do so. Why would they?
Now look at what a fine mess you got me in. The average person, as I said, hates himself but but I also said they can't hear it, so you must be an average person, I guess. Now, any objections or feelings of hostility toward me for saying you're normal. That could be the reason you don't want to know how you feel. And remember, it's not a very far slide from being normal to feeling, as you do, like the worst person in the world. I am very sorry you feel that way, but I can offer some comfort. In the first place, it's a lie there is anything wrong with you and secondly, everybody on the forum will tell you, if they only knew what they feel, that they are sure they are much worse than you.
 

whm1974

Diamond Member
Jul 24, 2016
9,436
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Now look at what a fine mess you got me in. The average person, as I said, hates himself but but I also said they can't hear it, so you must be an average person, I guess. Now, any objections or feelings of hostility toward me for saying you're normal. That could be the reason you don't want to know how you feel. And remember, it's not a very far slide from being normal to feeling, as you do, like the worst person in the world. I am very sorry you feel that way, but I can offer some comfort. In the first place, it's a lie there is anything wrong with you and secondly, everybody on the forum will tell you, if they only knew what they feel, that they are sure they are much worse than you.
I hardly feel like I'm the worst person in the World as I'm fully aware that I am not. I also have not done anything to cause me to feel that way.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,231
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I hardly feel like I'm the worst person in the World as I'm fully aware that I am not. I also have not done anything to cause me to feel that way.
It is pointless for me to try to argue this with you. All I can say is that if you look at what in human culture would be explained by the presence of hidden self hate as the motive for inexplicable behavior and if, believing as you do as I once did, you take a journey exploring your feelings in a therapeutic setting with someone who has gone before you, you may find a completely unknown and unexpected reality within, the discovery that there was a time before when you now know that what you thought you knew was true, that you don't hate yourself, was as wrong as it could be.

You have no idea how hard it to know what you feel and you do not know what you feel by looking at yourself dispassionately as you are doing.
 

whm1974

Diamond Member
Jul 24, 2016
9,436
1,567
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It is pointless for me to try to argue this with you. All I can say is that if you look at what in human culture would be explained by the presence of hidden self hate as the motive for inexplicable behavior and if, believing as you do as I once did, you take a journey exploring your feelings in a therapeutic setting with someone who has gone before you, you may find a completely unknown and unexpected reality within, the discovery that there was a time before when you now know that what you thought you knew was true, that you don't hate yourself, was as wrong as it could be.

You have no idea how hard it to know what you feel and you do not know what you feel by looking at yourself dispassionately as you are doing.
Provide actual evidence that I hate myself or that the vast majority of people engage self-hated. Otherwise quit sprouting nonsense.
 

interchange

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
8,022
2,872
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Provide actual evidence that I hate myself or that the vast majority of people engage self-hated. Otherwise quit sprouting nonsense.

Would you expect his supposition to be rigidly demonstrable by scientific inquiry? I believe he has suggested a way to test the hypothesis for yourself. Not a way I imagine anyone would choose with explicit goal of discovering how they hate themselves.