Why the second amendment argument is a joke

[ShawnD1]

The second amendment makes a lot of sense. Governments have historically tried to take guns away before going off the deep end. USSR did that, Germany did that, China did that, etc.

The reason the second amendment no longer applies is that people are simply too lazy to give a shit about anything. Ask your friends and relatives if they know what the NDAA is. Ask if they know of the provisions in it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Defense_Authorization_Act_for_Fiscal_Year_2012
Basically it says the following:

LOL US constitution are no longer exists LOL

The government is allowed to arrest and hold US citizens without a trial or charges. All they need to do is label you as a terrorist, and you're done. Notice that both Germany and USSR did this same exact thing. Hitler called his enemies terrorists and foreign invaders. Lenin branded people as terrorists if they were "against the revolution" which basically means whatever the hell he wanted it to mean. Now Obama and future presidents have that same executive power. You make a site called wikileaks? You're a terrorist. You work in journalism? You're a terrorist. Journalists are genuinely terrified of the implications here. Back in the long long ago, a wise and beautiful woman named Nixon was exposed by some guy named Deep Throat. In modern times, both Deep Throat and the journalist talking to him would be branded as terrorists, just like Julian Assange is right now.

The whole point of the second amendment is that you're supposed to rise up to prevent things like this from happening. America has all the guns in the universe, and nobody did a damn thing. People didn't even protest. You might as well lose your second amendment rights today since nobody cares about anything. People talk about freedom all day and they act like having a gun is freedom, then they turn a blind eye when the constitution is completely gutted by people Jefferson referred to as "tyrants."

 

[Doppel]

I agree with you completely. There are some classic signs of police state in the US such as the indefinite detention without trial and warrant less wire tapping and nobody with guns did anything about it.

 

[Pocatello]

Go ahead and grab your guns and start a war, maybe someone will follow you.

 

[Angry Irishman]

Go ahead and grab your guns and start a war, maybe someone will follow you.

We should probably just watch dancing with the stars and trust our government has our best interests in mind. I'd not even worry about it.:\

 

[gevorg]

Second Amendment is already severely handicapped, especially by states like California. Dissent is nearly impossible in a powerful country like United States. Also.

 

[SandEagle]

We should probably just watch dancing with the stars and trust our government has our best interests in mind. I'd not even worry about it.:\

oh shit, is DWTS on tonight?

 

[ShawnD1]

Go ahead and grab your guns and start a war, maybe someone will follow you.

I don't live in the US, so I don't care

 

[dmens]

So your argument is that since the US is already a police state, the few remaining means of resistance might as well be stripped away as well? I agree with you that the vast majority of people don't give a shit, but a few people still do.

For the record I duly donated my monies to the ACLU which failed miserably to stop NDAA.

 

[sandorski]

If there were a Well Regulated Militia, maybe things would be different. What you have instead is scores of millions of Individuals only concerned that they have a Gun for a myriad of reasons, one primarily being that it is their "Constitutional Right". Thus you have a situation where everyone has the "Security" of having the Gun, but really no effective way of rising up against an oppressive Government, should one arise.

 

[Phokus]

Also, to really make the argument, private citizens would need nukes to keep the gov't in check. Only the batshit crazy think private citizens should have access to nukes.

 

[dmens]

Also, to really make the argument, private citizens would need nukes to keep the gov't in check. Only the batshit crazy think private citizens should have access to nukes.

Nah, only batshit crazy dumbfucks think the government should be allowed to steal and murder as they please.

Also LOL @ the government record with nukes.

 

[Phokus]

Nah, only batshit crazy dumbfucks think the government should be allowed to steal and murder as they please.

Also LOL @ the government record with nukes.

I don't see you leading the revolution

 

[Fern]

The second amendment makes a lot of sense. Governments have historically tried to take guns away before going off the deep end. USSR did that, Germany did that, China did that, etc.

The reason the second amendment no longer applies is that people are simply too lazy to give a shit about anything. Ask your friends and relatives if they know what the NDAA is. Ask if they know of the provisions in it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Defense_Authorization_Act_for_Fiscal_Year_2012
Basically it says the following:

The government is allowed to arrest and hold US citizens without a trial or charges. All they need to do is label you as a terrorist, and you're done. -snip-

I don't believe the US govt can do that. I'm not even sure they think they can or want to try:

The final version of the bill also provides, in sub-section(e), that "Nothing in this section shall be construed to affect existing law or authorities relating to the detention of United States citizens, lawful resident aliens of the United States, or any other persons who are captured or arrested in the United States." As reflected in Senate debate over the bill, there is a great deal of controversy over the status of existing law.[17]

As we've seen in a prior SCOTUS case (Padilla IIRC) the US govt cannot indefinitely detain a US citizen. "Due process" must be followed. No law Congress passes can change that.

Fern

 

[dmens]

I don't see you leading the revolution

And that defends your point how? Somehow 2A is meaningless because I don't see the point of shooting up a BATFE or IRS office and engaging in the barbarous behavior that the government uses every day?

Of course when the US government starts murdering people domestically for thoughtcrimes, which isn't that far-fetched because they already do it overseas, then violent resistance might become more justified.

For now I'll stick with non-violent means.

 

[ShawnD1]

So your argument is that since the US is already a police state, the few remaining means of resistance might as well be stripped away as well? I agree with you that the vast majority of people don't give a shit, but a few people still do.

For the record I duly donated my monies to the ACLU which failed miserably to stop NDAA.

I think my point is that most people talk like they'll rise up, but we know they won't. How many people have been looking at 20 years in jail for stupid bullshit laws like marijuana trafficking? You're supposed to use your second amendment right to fight against that. You'll never take me alive coppers! Then the person is peacefully arrested by 2 officers, 0 shots fired. What makes you think other BS laws will go down any different? Suppose they come to arrest you because you're a suspected terrorist. Do you think you or anyone else would stand up and shoot back? Or would you peacefully go into detention and never be seen again?

 

[dmens]

I think my point is that most people talk like they'll rise up, but we know they won't. How many people have been looking at 20 years in jail for stupid bullshit laws like marijuana trafficking? You're supposed to use your second amendment right to fight against that. You'll never take me alive coppers! Then the person is peacefully arrested by 2 officers, 0 shots fired. What makes you think other BS laws will go down any different? Suppose they come to arrest you because you're a suspected terrorist. Do you think you or anyone else would stand up and shoot back? Or would you peacefully go into detention and never be seen again?

Heh, every time a DEA chekist or pig gets killed during a drug raid, I do a happy dance. People shoot back all the time, and that's why guns shouldn't be banned.

Check out this law: http://rt.com/usa/news/indiana-shooting-law-state-591/

Making it nation-wide would be great.

 

[ShawnD1]

Heh, every time a DEA chekist or pig gets killed during a drug raid, I do a happy dance. People shoot back all the time, and that's why guns shouldn't be banned.

Good point

 

[BoberFett]

I agree with you completely. There are some classic signs of police state in the US such as the indefinite detention without trial and warrant less wire tapping and nobody with guns did anything about it.

So you advocate violent rebellion as the first resort rather than the last? Good thing you're anti-gun, you definitely shouldn't own one.

 

[Paul98]

This is how it works, freedoms eroded slowly, government getting bigger and having more power. We have all these laws continue to get more and more as all these "law makers" think that is their job. When in fact we need to repeal many of the laws we have to make them logical.

 

[jackstar7]

Find better people to represent you.

 

[dmens]

Find better people to represent you.

Politicians... better people... does not compute.

Even a hundred freshmen libertarian congressmen will not repel the entrenched ruling class regime.

 

[blackangst1]

I don't believe the US govt can do that. I'm not even sure they think they can or want to try:



As we've seen in a prior SCOTUS case (Padilla IIRC) the US govt cannot indefinitely detain a US citizen. "Due process" must be followed. No law Congress passes can change that.

Fern

No, but it can deliver a missile up someone's ass via a drone if they want.

 

[jackstar7]

Politicians... better people... does not compute.

Even a hundred freshmen libertarian congressmen will not repel the entrenched ruling class regime.

Sounds like you are declaring democracy a failure for you then.

But it's not like you're going to leave.

 

[brandonb]

People didn't even protest. You might as well lose your second amendment rights today since nobody cares about anything.

I agree with your entire post. And at some point the government will use its power and people will start disappearing at night via the black helicopters. Word will get around.

That will start it.

People will then start insurgency. Mostly by the lone wolf. They will do exactly as what happened in Iraq. Police officers will slowly but surely be sniped until police officers are scared to do their job. So the government will have no choice but to maintain order with military forces. Again. They will slowly be sniped one by one to demoralize the military. People will attack military recruiting stations to prevent more from joining the military if not executed outright at the mention of even wanting to join the military.

You see. We need guns in order to protect ourselves. We don't need nukes, we don't need tanks, we don't need machine guns. We have enough to demoralize the government and make it very hard for them to sustain themselves. All the while we refuse to pay taxes and stop working. The government will crumble like every one has in the past.

The only thing they can do is outlaw guns outright and come door to door and collect them. They can go ahead and try... That will be humous to watch. Again, see my first point about police officers...

Our people are lazy, but no matter what, the government will not win. There are enough lone wolves out there that will fix the problem and as more people disappear, that number increases.

 

[dmens]

Sounds like you are declaring democracy a failure for you then.

But it's not like you're going to leave.

LOL, of course it's a failure. It's the biggest lie ever perpetrated in the history of mankind. The notion that consent is given by choosing between a handful of malignant narcissists dedicated to consolidating the power of the state via theft and mass murder, it is totally ludicrous. It's no more civilized than the warlords of old, except the warlords had the decency not to lie to you about why he is stealing your shit and burning down your village.

Maybe you can explain how democracy has worked for *you*, I'd love to hear it.